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Post by kich on Dec 31, 2006 11:57:15 GMT -7
I have a RT66 and was wondering how it compares to say a Tweed Bassman or Tweed Twin? A few years back I emailed the Doc and he said it had the best of both JTM45 and Tweed Twin. Do you agree? If not what would you say are the differences?
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Post by billyguitar on Jan 1, 2007 15:08:25 GMT -7
Nobody has responded yet. I have tweed Bassmans but no Route 66. Others here have the 66's but not the tweeds. I would think they'd be pretty different but maybe they would have the "best of". Doc ought to know what he's talking about.
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Post by taswegian on Jan 1, 2007 16:01:07 GMT -7
Haven't really heard any tweed Bassman's for a while or that I can remember, but I have heard some JTM45's. I think the Route 66 really is a very unique amp. Kinda deserves to stand on it's own. You know, like other people saying, "Is it closer to a twin, or a Rt 66?"
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libes
New Member
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Post by libes on Jan 1, 2007 20:01:02 GMT -7
I play a Rt. 66 into a 4x10 Matchless cabinet, and our rhythm guitarist plays through a bassman. I use a Les Paul and he uses a tele.
There are some similarities to the amps, but they are mainly due to the 10 inch speakers. The Z is fuller, rounder, warmer, and more articulate. The bassman is swampier and greasier.
There's nothing wrong with a good old bassman amp. It does what it does. I love the sound of a tele or strat into a TS9 and then a bassman. Killer rhythm tones. But a bassman begins to fart out (particularly the reissues) at certain volumes.
To sum up, a route 66 into a 4x10 will blow away any reissue bassman, but that doesn't make the bassman a poor amp. They are different animals.
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Post by billyguitar on Jan 2, 2007 8:43:40 GMT -7
I can't say about the new amps but on the old tweed Bassmans you have to almost turn the bass off or they really sound bad cranked.
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Post by Curt on Jan 2, 2007 13:30:15 GMT -7
In what language does "Fender" mean "Fart out"?? ;D I love old Fenders but after playing Z's I just can't take the low end of the Fenders (or lack there of) any more
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Post by billyguitar on Jan 2, 2007 14:32:51 GMT -7
The Deluxe Reverb is the worst for farting out.
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libes
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Post by libes on Jan 2, 2007 17:05:49 GMT -7
Perhaps I misspoke! My experience with the reissue Fender amps has not been very favorable. Our rhythm player uses an older reissue bassman, but he hasn't changed the tubes in it in a while--in fact, I'm not sure he knows it even has tubes in it!
Has anyone played the Bassman LTD? Any improvement there?
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Post by (8^D) on Jan 2, 2007 21:15:43 GMT -7
A little on the side of the request, but I was looking for the "ideal" JTM45 type tone. Was actually looking at stock Marshall JTM45s but they were so flat, non-dimensional, and sterile sounding. Someone tipped me off about the Z's, specifically the R66, as my tonal cure and I hunted one down in a local shop. Spent the next couple hours playing everything I could thru it. Was exactly what I was looking for - imagine the best JTM45 tones ever and the R66 surpassed even those. PLUS, you have even more tones hiding in there with the dynamic nature of the T,B, & V stacking. AND, you can take the tones even further with different cabs - 410's, 212's, 112's, etc.
Amazing amp!!
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Post by groovergeorge on Jan 3, 2007 4:20:45 GMT -7
The Fender Tonemaster doesn't fart out..........I can definately guarantee that, but I either would the KT45. I gotta stop G.A.Sing for a KT45'. My fiance' was looking at rings the other day and suggested I start looking as well. Apparently it's the groom responsibilty to pay for that also. I just told her that I'd rather spend the dollarez on a KT45 as a ring would play havoc with my left hand technique.
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Post by skydog958 on Jan 3, 2007 14:27:17 GMT -7
It's ok groovergeroge, jump in! The water's warm. ;D
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Post by jb on Jan 3, 2007 15:33:01 GMT -7
In addition to my 66, I use a 4X10 tweed Blues DeVille, which sounds good to me, but it is a very loud amp.
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Post by groovergeorge on Jan 3, 2007 16:21:04 GMT -7
I gotta stop hangin' out with you SKYDOG, your not helping this G.A.S (KT45) one bit. I'm like a freakin' junky lately after that red one just got sold
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Post by frunabulaks on Jan 14, 2007 19:56:18 GMT -7
Hi, I would say it is more Bassman like. It is open sounding yet very tight in the bass. It has that woody snap like Rory Gallager through his old bassman. Wow, tone is hard to describe. I wouldn't say it's like a twin. It has the tightest bass I've ever heard. It is so harmonically rich and resposive that you absoulutely must have a good guitar when you play through it. When I played my Custom Shop Strat through it the Rosewood Neck just sounded so 3 dimesional. I also had to play with the amp for a while to get the killer tone. It is very responsive and quite complex for single channel three controls. My Maple neck Strat needs a completely different setting with the 66 to sound it's best. The tone controls max at 12 as does the Volume anything past that is gain. So 9am on the treble and bass is really like 12 noon on a Bassman. If you go to 12 on both you almost scoop the mids a bit. If you run the treble past 12 it adds gain to the treble but the bass stays tight right were it is. If you run the bass to max it adds warm bass to the upper strings also it doesn't just add Vol. to the lower guitar strings. The tone controls are active If you play it in your bedroom you maynot think it's that great. If you play out with it you may think it's one of the best amps ever. It took me awhile to get used to it but ones you find the sweet spots, which I have, it's a keeper. I am 48 have played all the great amps from the 50's, 60's and 70's and even owned a few and if I was on a desert island with one it would be this. I did not feel that way at all when I first got it. It seemed to have to break in or maybe I had to learn to use it. Scanning Ebay for a back up as we speak.
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Post by billyguitar on Jan 14, 2007 20:04:40 GMT -7
I think a 66 does have that high open treble like a Bassman so that part I can see. Definitely different than a blackface, they have kind of a 'hard' treble. It took me some time to adapt my head to the Z sound because it really is different. Looks like you went thru that too! Keep telling us your new discoveries using this amp. That's why we're here.
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Post by eggman on Jul 28, 2011 17:33:20 GMT -7
Howdy,
Forgive my selfish Bump, but I'm getting all week in the knees for either tweed or maybe a '66. It's an open G thing!
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Post by kich on Jul 28, 2011 18:23:18 GMT -7
I love open G with the 66! Easy to nail those Chris Robinson tones or Keef.....
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Post by Jan on Aug 7, 2011 20:06:28 GMT -7
I simply MUST stop reading this Route 66 sub forum. If you tell me how good it sounds with an old pair of Tung Sol 5881s, I may break down and cry.
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Post by eggman on Aug 8, 2011 16:07:58 GMT -7
Howdy, I must discipline myself to avoid the ultra-fun Route 66 section!
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Post by Maddog on Aug 8, 2011 18:15:58 GMT -7
I recently posted this in "other amp makers" when eggman asked if anyone had comparison experience with 66's and Bassmans.... Here's my response: (Note: my "Bassman's" are a 1958 Fender 5F6A and a Clark Piedmont."... Here ya go:
Yeah, I had a Route 66. The route 66 seemed punchier and more "in yer face." The 66 is a very colorful amp, but got its color at moderate to higher volume. The 5F6A Bassman and all its clones seem to bloom much earlier on the volume scale and get a fuller sound at lower volumes. They (Bassmans) don't hold together as well at high volume.... They tend to go into a sweet singing saturation where the 66 has some room left to go on the volume.... Similar, but different.... For the style of music I play, I had to have the 66 really cooking to get the tone I wanted. I can get that tone at a use-able (lower) volume level with the Bassman. Don't get me wrong tho. I regret selling the 66. It was great for Rock-ish venues and especially outside gigs where you could crank it. JMHO....YMMV....
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Post by prspastor on Aug 8, 2011 19:29:29 GMT -7
The Route 66 can be an awesome Tweed Machine! Just put some nice 6L6's in it, bias it a bit on the warm side, and turn it up - you're there! After my purchase of my Ghia, I learned just how much 'more', 'less' could be. And then that was further attested to after acquiring my Z28 shortly thereafter. Thus I found myself on this 'less is more' path, and started searching for a similarly 'simple' design in a 6L6 amp (I have a nice 'stash' of 6L6's, and wanted an amp to use them in). I tried a lot of different amps over the next two years, and I just couldn't find anything with that same 'MOJO' exhibited by my Ghia & Z28. Then it hit me one day (yah, I know, I'm a bit slow!) - the Route 66 is a '6L6' amp.I called Doc on the phone and asked him about running the Route with 6L6's, and he confirmed that it would work perfectly, and that it be a bit "tweed-like". I immediately ordered one!I've since tried a few different 'flavors' of 6L6's in my Route, and they sound fabulous. This amp design (and the Z28 & KT45 too) is a perfect 'showcase' for output tube flavors - this amp is all about the output section. And it is the ULTIMATE 6L6 amp!!! Now, Doc made me promise that I'd give those big beautiful KT-66's a fair shake in this amp, and I can honestly say that they have spent more time in my Route than any of my precious 6L6 tube stash. Yah, I love this amp with the Gold Lion KT-66's! But it makes a great 6L6 'Tweed Machine' too. Oh, and it definitely qualifies as a 'simple' amp design. Doc told me that the Route has only 27 components, total - no wonder it sounds so good! And this happy 'Z' owner can certainly attest to fact that 'Less is More'! WAY MORE!!!Hey Greg, with the 5U4 and the newer bias pot that is matched to the 5U4 rectifier, can you bias the 6L6's pretty easily (that is, is there enough sweep in the pot?)
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Post by Maddog on Aug 9, 2011 4:50:41 GMT -7
Maddog I'm guessing your Route had a 5AR4 Rectifier, is that correct? Don't rightly remember....... This was some years back.... You guys sticking a 5U4GB in there now?
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Post by prspastor on Aug 9, 2011 5:38:07 GMT -7
Hey Lee, Actually, we are following Doc's lead there. Route 66's come standard with the 5U4 rectifiers now. Less volume, more bloom and sustain...
The tube chart in my 66 says 5U4, so I guess it is standard. Sounds good!
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Post by Jan on Aug 9, 2011 6:30:08 GMT -7
This is from 2005 But if you want to change the overall response of the RT.66 try a Sylvania green labeled 5U4, or a GE 5V4. Remember to adjust bias, as both of these tubes will lower plate voltage at idle, and more so at clip. Set the KT-66's from 28 to 34 mA per tube and you'll then hear the difference the rectifier makes. It will increase sustain and compression , lower overall power, and will feel spongier , which might be a good thing for you.
I personally like the GZ-34 in my RT.66.
DR.Z See the rest here, Z-Talk! :: General :: Route 66 :: tube recommendations
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Post by kich on Aug 26, 2011 18:28:12 GMT -7
Does putting in 6L6's add more upper end? And how does it sound on the cleaner settings?
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Post by dixiechicken on Aug 28, 2011 2:16:59 GMT -7
DC here! As you all know by now I have the Route66 now since 2007 - with Doc's 2x10" convertible cab, Before that I had - for over ten years - a Fender Blues DeVille 2x12" 60 watt combo. Basically a Fender Bassman with a distortion/overdrive channel added. And yes it was a tweed - ;D The clean channel was excellent at normal volumes, great high and mids with enough bottom end to balance it up. Great projection and response. The overdrive channel was crap, fizzy and in-articulate, besides it totally changed the tonal color so the od-sound and clean sound was very different. It sounded as someona had fiddled with the tonecontrols when switching channels. I sent the amp tp Tommy Folkesson here in sweden for his mod of the Blues DeVille. The amp was much nicer after his mods. Here is the link to his site: www.tommy-folkesson.nu/But still the modern "tweeds" are very stiff amps, very loud if you want to get the goods out of them - all but us-usable at normal playing levels. A really good od pedal in front or a Weber/Airbrake to tame the volume is a must to be able to use them in varying situations. Well unless you wanna play them totally clean at low volumes. Just my two cents - YMMV Cheers: Dixiechicken!
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Post by ripple on Oct 8, 2011 18:51:59 GMT -7
Reviving this thread, as I own both 66 and 59 Bassman LTD. and can offer an opinion or two.
For the record: I think the Route 66 is the greatest amp on the Planet and have gigged the hell out of mine since 2006. Gold Lion KT66s w/ 5U4 Rectifier driving a 2x12 Green Beret loaded closed back cab, and it crushes classic rock, hard rock, funk, old soul, blues AND country. It is an understatement to say I love this amp. I'd sleep with her if she wasn't so hard and right-angly.
Fast forward - I got a great deal on a mint '59ri Bassman LTD last year, and figured I'd eventually flip it for something else, but found myself falling for that beast. Once I got the Jensen alnicos broken in, it warmed up and breathed fire. I soon found out why its forefather has held legendary status all these years, and it quickly became my everyday player in the home studio (much to my wife's chagrin - that sucker is LOUD). So many classic tones can be coaxed from that amp with ease, and it allows different guitars to retain their character. Strats, Les Pauls, Teles and Archtops and P-90s all sound great through that amp. Blending the normal and bright channels just adds to the fun.
If I'd found the Bassman before I found the 66, I likely would've ended my amp quest right there - its that good. It sounds big; even when it's not loud. Turn it up and it sounds huge... and deafening. Far more manageable than a Marshall halfstack, but still muscular and fat sounding. Like the Rt 66, it's very pedal friendly and it has that organic tone that's hard to explain, but completely addictive. Like the amp is alive.
Tonally the Bassmans top end is more versatile (and sometimes harder to reign in) that the 66, and the bass gets a bit looser than the 66 (despite sounding huge at low volumes). I found the secret to getting great loud tone from the bassman is to lower the bass settings as you turn it up. Not so with the 66 - I have that sucker planted on 3pm and higher when I'm cranking it. Never gets loose and flubby.
A couple outdoor gigs this summer afforded me the opportunity to be obscenely loud with the Bassman and it was a beautiful experience. Huge stage filling sound, with that compression where the amp is playing itself. Then I had a couple lower volume gigs where I had a bit more trouble dialing in the bassman - sounded good, but not great. I need to be able to wind it out to get the tones I crave.
The 66 is more versatile in that respect, because I just plug in, set my bass on 3 pm; Treble between 11am-1pm and volume to match the room and done! Great tone every time without fail...if the room's real small I'll use a 1x12 cab, but the 2x12 is just plain money and easily my favorite cab. But a little variety is nice as well, and I'm currently on the prowl for a 4x10 closed back cab, which should be a nice playmate for old Double Sixes.
I think the Doc's analysis of the 66 being the cross between big tweed and a JTM45 is spot on. There are times I can hear elements of each amp in the other. The 66 seems to be that missing link between old school Fender and Marshall. Not quite as sparkly as the Bassman, but more three dimensional than the JTM-45 with better bass.
Both are wonderful amps. Definitely don't let a good deal on a Bassman LTD get away - I'm keeping mine!
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Post by Joey Beverages on Oct 24, 2011 9:17:27 GMT -7
I have a RT66 and was wondering how it compares to say a Tweed Bassman or Tweed Twin? A few years back I emailed the Doc and he said it had the best of both JTM45 and Tweed Twin. Do you agree? If not what would you say are the differences? Agreed ..... 'tis a thing of sonic beauty
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