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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2006 14:27:08 GMT -7
Hey guys! So I am going to get to the short and sweet of it for you guys who took the time to read this. I have a Maz 18 Jr., and now I am looking to add either a Z-28 or a Route 66 to my Z arsenel. So here are my questions........
1) I have had the chance to play a Route 66 and was very impressed by it, but I have heard many complaints of the amp producing "ghost notes". I hear this is especially audible in open back cabs. Is there any fix for this, and if so is it a "big deal" to perform? Has the doc fixed this problem? Does this problem affect all Route 66's or just a few? Is there a particular year of Route 66's to avoid if I don't want to deal with this issue?
2) I have heard many compare the Z-28 to the Route 66, and from what I understand, the Z-28 is more "Fendery", while the 66 is more "Marshally" (I definately heard this when I played the 66). But I have also heard some say that the two are very similar to their ears. Can anybody else give me a more detailed explanation of the differences between the two? Which takes pedals better, and which of the two would be a better "hard rock" amp?
3) Finally, what speaker and cab combinations are favored by users of each one? (Route 66 and Z-28)
Sorry if it was a long post, but having neverheard the Z-28, and having had barely any time with a Route 66, I need some basic info before picking one of the babys up! Thanks guys!
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Post by jb on Sept 18, 2006 14:41:40 GMT -7
I have never heard "ghost notes" with mine so it may be just certain amps that do this. For speakers I use two 1X12's, one with a G12H30 and the other with a Celestion Blue, and they sound great together. I also found that the RC Booster really made this amp come alive, especially at lower volume levels.
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Post by rcrecelius on Sept 18, 2006 15:40:21 GMT -7
Judging from what Ive read and experienced myself...ghost notes are usually tube issues. My Z28 had some ghost notes after I swapped power(and other) tubes...unfortunately when I went to swap power tubes again I put them in wrong and messed it up. DrZ fixed it for me and put all new tubes in and when I got it back, no ghost notes. I bought a used 66 last week and it has ghost notes...for the most part, you cant hear the ghost notes when performing live but if they are bad enough it could cause a loss of sustain because the ghost note is usually a "clash" to the original note.
Z28 vs Rt66 The descriptions youve heard are spot on...Z28 is more Fendery with that 6v6 chime and the RT66 is thickerer, more Marshal like. Both are also very versatile depending on what speakers you use.
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Post by Bill on Sept 18, 2006 16:22:13 GMT -7
I agree the RC Booster makes the 66 come alive...without the RC, I'd have a hard time getting the sound and feel I want. With it, the 66 is a dream amp. Slam the front end hard on a 66 and it gets real nasty & ballsy...especially when the tubes get HOT.
I've only experienced ghost notes with a humbucker guitar, but since I use single coils 99% of the time, it appears to be a non issue for me.
I've also owned the Z28 and for hard rock, no question I'd select the 66 given a choice of the two. For country it'd be a toss up depending...seeing as "country music" seems to cover a large area these days.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2006 16:43:57 GMT -7
Thanks for the input guys......I can always count on this forum for some great advice. so as far as the speakers go, which would be best for a hard rock sound?
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Post by prowler on Sept 18, 2006 16:58:38 GMT -7
No ghost notes with my 66. I'm running a 1x12 cab loaded with a Weber Ceramic Silver Bell, 50 watts, moderate dope. The 66 sounds amazing through that cab. I run two different boost pedals depending on the size of the gig. Sometimes a COT 50 Red & sometimes my Klon Centaur. If the gig is big enough I run the 66 with all knobs at 3 O'Clock.
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Post by taswegian on Sept 18, 2006 19:18:42 GMT -7
I don't think the ghost note thing is inherant to the 66. For me it's a non issue, it could happen to any amp. Both amps will do hard rock, the Z28 although leaning into the Fender camp, really rocks wound up with humbuckers. Think ZZ and Lynard. The Route 66 is a classic rock machine and I still like the stock Z best for that great vintage British Marshall stack sound. Both take pedals extremely well. The Z28 is pretty loud wound up but a 1-12 would be ok for smaller clubs. The Route 66 is an unfriendly volume for small clubs wound up with the Z-Best. Man it sounds good though. The 1-12 will tame the volume but loose that womp! Also if you have an airbrake and a 1-12 you should have no problems. My 1-12 has a custom made 35 watt speaker and it tames the volume considerable compared to the Z-Best. Can't loose with either but for rock I'd lean toward the 66. The Z28 is no slouch in the rock department though and gives it up a little sooner and friendlier. Cheers and good luck
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Post by The Rev on Sept 26, 2006 19:47:27 GMT -7
I have owned a Maz 18 Jr and a 66 at one time I have issues with both that I would describe as ghost noise and on both amps it was a tube issue. I use a Bogner Cube 1x12 and a fender custom shop 2x12 the 66 work both well. Jimmie www.jimmiebratcher.comwww.myspace.com/JimmieBratcher
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Post by drew on Sept 27, 2006 7:38:19 GMT -7
I agree with the guys comments on ghost notes being tube related. There is also speaker cone cry that cloud the ghost note issue. I had a newer 2005 and currently have early model 66, it has the old interstate logo, and IMO both amps sound the same. Of course I couldn't do an A/B test but to my well broken in ears they sound and respond like a 66. I've never played a Z-28... IMO you'll get a different response with different speakers and it's so subjective per user. An open back w/2x12 greenbacks is my fav so far but I've only tried a handful of options.
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Post by James on Sept 27, 2006 8:29:46 GMT -7
Drew, What characteristics does the open back 2x 12 w/ g'backs accentuate in the 66? Does it give it chime, bottom end........top end bite etc? ??
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Post by rcrecelius on Sept 27, 2006 9:28:15 GMT -7
Drew, What characteristics does the open back 2x 12 w/ g'backs accentuate in the 66? Does it give it chime, bottom end........top end bite etc? ?? I now own the 66 and Greenback cab that Drew speaks of and I'd say the Greenbacks accentuate the low/low mid thickness of the 66. Being primarily a country tele player, I wish there was a little more top end available with that setup but when you get it cooking for some R&R/Blues...wow...what a thick rich sound with great harmonic content. When I first got this amp, I compared it to BW's "Interstate logo" 66 and BW's stayed cleaner/longer...that was before I biased mine up to 38...now, although Ive not done the official A/B test, I'd say they sound almost identical. I still have BW's 66 so if I dont get it back to him this week(and if my wife goes out of town) I'll try to make that comparison between older/newer and report back here.
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Post by James on Sept 27, 2006 10:07:36 GMT -7
I gotta try 38 mA.........amazing that 34 to 38 yields such a difference in tone.
How does your z 28 sound thru that cab?
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Post by drew on Sept 27, 2006 10:36:43 GMT -7
Drew, What characteristics does the open back 2x 12 w/ g'backs accentuate in the 66? Does it give it chime, bottom end........top end bite etc? ?? Hey James, Ronnie hit the nail on the head for the 2x12 open back greenies. I liked the bottom end and breakup characteristics. I'm currently using a sovereign loaded with a texas heat but preferred the 2x12 Z Cab. That said I've not tried it through a Z-Best. I've no doubt that your pants legs will be juming and jiving with a Z-Beast cab! i'm sure Jaye will attest to that.
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Post by rcrecelius on Sept 27, 2006 10:38:10 GMT -7
I gotta try 38 mA.........amazing that 34 to 38 yields such a difference in tone. How does your z 28 sound thru that cab? Havent tried it yet
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Post by guitarnorton on Sept 28, 2006 18:42:34 GMT -7
I've got an early Rt 66, (got it right after the review in Guitar Player) I love the amp to death but it really does ghost note. Does it through open back closed back and any speaker I've ever played it through. I sent it back to doc once when he was having trouble with fliter caps and had them upgraded. Are the newer Rt 66's different? Granted its not as noticeable with the amp really cranked but always there. Not putting the amp down, its a great one.
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Post by James on Oct 2, 2006 7:45:58 GMT -7
rcrecelius,
I set the bias to 38mA last weekend and the amp was back! Snappy, tight and VERY articulate. It sounded like it did when I bought it. Also, the tubes were running at about 42mA. I had set them for 34 about 2 months ago. I have experienced this drift with both my z 28 and rt66................buying the weber bias rite was the best thing I ever did for my tone...................has already saved me $in gas , $ in tech fees and valuable time.
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Post by rcrecelius on Oct 2, 2006 10:01:57 GMT -7
rcrecelius, I set the bias to 38mA last weekend and the amp was back! Snappy, tight and VERY articulate. It sounded like it did when I bought it. Also, the tubes were running at about 42mA. I had set them for 34 about 2 months ago. I have experienced this drift with both my z 28 and rt66................buying the weber bias rite was the best thing I ever did for my tone...................has already saved me $in gas , $ in tech fees and valuable time. Good deal...yeah, a bias tool is a great investment for anyone who uses their amps a lot like I do cause they will drift after a few gigs.
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