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Post by Chris_Ferreira on Jul 23, 2006 16:59:00 GMT -7
Hey guys,
My name's Chris, and this is my first post here.
Unfortunately for my bank account, I recently became aware of Dr Z amps, and I've realized I pretty much have to have one (at least). I've been vacillating between the Stang Ray and the RX ES, and am leaning more towards the latter.
I'm a little nervous though, because I've never bought an amp or guitar that I hadn't played exhaustively first, and there's no place in Seattle that has either of those amps in stock.
I'm going mostly off clips I've heard at the Dr. Z site and the sounds forum, and I really love the range of tones the ES offers.
But I have a question:
It seems to be widely held that lower power amps are better for recording, because you can push the power tubes harder without having to play at absurdly loud volumes. However, as much as I love the sound of the Maz Jr 18, I'm not sure I can get a loud enough clean sound for gigs out of it (I'm really looking for an amp for recording and gigging).
I was wondering if any RX ES owners here could share experiences about using it as a recording amp. Is it just too loud for that purpose? (especially if you're going for an overdriven sound)
Although I've been playing for sixteen years, I am woefully ignorant about amps and how they work, so any help on this question would be really appreciated.
This is a really great forum, I feel like I've already learned a good deal just from reading everyone's posts.
Thanks much,
Chris
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Post by kccheers on Jul 23, 2006 17:39:43 GMT -7
First of all, welcome to the board. Maybe forum member benttop will chime in here. He is in Seattle and has a Stingray.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2006 20:25:33 GMT -7
Hi Chris, I have done some recording with both amps. The website link under my name has some tracks of the RXES. The last track has the RXES on the verge of breakup. At that level the amp is loud. If you play in a loud band then I would not worry. It is definitely too loud at that level for small clubs or in quiet bands. If you are using pedals then I wouldn't worry at all but if you want that natural drive sound then you will have to crank her to get there and/or flip the overdose switch. You could get an Air-Break to help bring the volume down a bit but you don't want to over attenuate. Though the RXES is loud it records well. Whether you can play at that level for gigs depends on where you gig. The Stingray is a great amp as well but does not have a lot gain when cranked compared to the RXES. It stays a little cleaner over all. It is one loud as amp as well. It could be as loud as my '64 Twin Reverb though the Stingray breaks up a little faster. It never gets any kind of full on overdrive without a pedal or booster of some kind. It just gets more complex and thick sounding to my ears. I love this amp. My dream rig is the Stingray for cleans and the SRZ-65 for dirty tones. If you want an amp where you are getting natural overdrive without pedals without tearing people's heads off but are still concerned with headroom you should look at the Maz38Sr. I prefer the Non-reverb model. It has a great master volume on it and can get some great overdrive sounds as well. I was debating over the Maz18 and the Maz38 in the end I dug the more refined Maz38. Trust me it took a lot of debate and sleepless nights to come to that decision. They are both great amps! ;D I was in the same boat as you. I originally had a RXES, but had the same problems of being able to play at volumes I recorded at live. In the end the Maz38Sr was the way to go for me. I still wish I could have kept the RXES, it has it's own thing going on but in the end I could only pick one. Besides I need a SRZ-65 for those overdriven tones right now. I have level 5 Z-GAS right now. I think Myles is at a level 10 or what we call the Jedi Ma Zter. I did prefer one thing on the Maz38 when compared to the RXES and it was the way it took pedals. I preferred the way the Maz took pedals when compared to the RXES especially drive pedals. This is with both amps running clean. There just seems to be more of the guitars tone coming through or 'wood' with the Maz38. This is just my opinion from running a side by side comparison. YMMV.
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Post by Chris_Ferreira on Jul 24, 2006 0:08:40 GMT -7
Hey kccheers, thanks for the welcome.
And Aruntung, thanks for the thorough response. I hope I don't come off like a snob or something, but the Mazerati Sr just doesn't quite do it for me. It's just not an amp that I'd be willing to buy without playing first. From the clips I've heard, both the Stang Ray and RX ES are much closer to my style (anything from jazz and pop-rock to Zeppelin).
So between those two, then, I guess you'd recommend the Stang Ray? I still haven't quite decided. If I had more money I'd probably just fly out to Fat Sounds or some guitar store that has most Z amps and just try them all out in person, but somehow I don't think that's gonna happen.
I'm going to the Seattle Z dealer in a week or so, and I'll hopefully get a chance to play a Maz Jr, but I really wanted an ES. The fact tat you say it doesn't take pedals as well as the Mazerati is worrying though. If I can't play loud enough to drive the amp, I'm gonna need some kind of pedals.
Thanks for giving me something to think about, and I like your playing. You have really strong meter and great articulation. Good stuff.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2006 0:48:54 GMT -7
Hi Chris, just wanted to make sure you understand that I don't think the Maz takes pedals better than the RXES. I just prefer the way my pedals sounded with the Maz38Sr when compared to the RXES. The RXES still sounded great with pedals but for my ears the Maz38Sr seemed a little more like home to me.
I don't think your a snob at all my friend. You like the rest of us, is trying to find the amp. I would say however that the Maz can do Jazz to Pop-rock to Zeppelin with no problems. That's why I use the Maz38 because it is one of Dr. Z's most versatile amps.
Just to clarify as well the Mazerati is not the same amp as the Maz38Sr. If you are going to try out the Maz18jr, bear in mind that the Maz38Sr is very similar to that amp. The 38 is a little more refined while the 18 is snottier and rawer. Have fun man, you can't go wrong no matter which you choose. The Stingray, RXES, Maz38Sr, or Maz18Jr all rock. I know one member who has all these amps including a Ghia!
Thanks for the kind words regarding the clips. My guitar had incredibly high action at the time and was a bit of challenge to play. I should rerecord them one of these days.
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Post by billyguitar on Jul 24, 2006 5:09:59 GMT -7
I have a Maz 38 sr and a Stang Ray, similar to Arun. The Maz sr/jr have great master volumes that'll let you get your sound as low as 9:00 on the master volume. The Stang Ray does not have the edge that the Maz amps have. It will play cleaner louder than the Maz 38, by a bit. The Ray amps have a beautiful sweetness that you don't get with the others. If you used an inefficient speaker or an Air Brake you could crank it on solos at a normal noisy club but you may get the evil eye from some. Like Arun says you may need a drive pedal to make it rock.
The RXES is an incredible amp as well. I could live easily with any three of these amps.
Not much help, eh? Go backand read all the posts on these amps. It'll help a lot.
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Post by Bill on Jul 24, 2006 5:27:21 GMT -7
Scroll down about halfway, and you'll find a Stingray AND RxES clip...the same song with similar settings, for comparison: SR vs RxESRxES- Bright, percussive, powerful & loud...lots of gain on tap with the overdose on. I never used the RC Booster or OD pedals with this amp...just used less efficient speakers and played fairly loud. Stingray- More complex, pleasing clean tones, lots of bottom end AND chime, great at dialing in thickness on a tele bridge. Very little gain, you need to get it from a pedal.
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Post by JASON (aka jgleaton) on Jul 24, 2006 9:15:51 GMT -7
Chris,
Welcome to the forum.... and first I think you could record some amazing sounds from the RX ES with no problem.... great amp. madisons descriptions above of the Stingray vs. the RX ES is right on....
I would try and get up with Benttop from the forum as he is in your area and get to one of his show to hear a Stingray.... I love my Stingray and you may too, but sounds like the RX ES is a little bit more down your alley with the harder stuff (although with the right pedals the RAY can get nasty)
also..what Arun said about the pedals... the RX ES DOES take pedals really well.. for lower volumes you may really NEED to use pedals and for louder volumes you could use either pedals OR the OVERDOSE on cranked.... I'M WITH Arun about the Maz SR... as GREAT as the RX ES takes pedals... the Maz SR takes them even better IMO! but...YMMV and YOU may LOVE the RXES for what your doing and the style YOUR playing....
BUT, IF YOU LIKED THE MAZ 18 but are worried about it NOT being loud enough ... YOU WILL LOVE THE MAZ SR!!! IT WILL DO WHAT YOUR LOOKING TO DO and much more.... punch sparkle and B@lls!! put a pedal to it and get back....
Don't just go by the clips.. the MAZ SR may be the best ALL AROUND DR Z amp in MY opinion... I prefer the REVERB Model but you can get the NR model and it will absolutely SNARL! (but I think with some tube swaps the Reverb model can get the same snarl as mine can get that too)... to REALLY appreciate these amps you've got to PLAY them in a live setting... thats where they SHINE!!
I know you can't easilly get to one so thats why we're really trying to help you here... If you were ANYWHERE near me I'd be happy to let you try out all three of these to see which one you like the best.
Jason
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Post by dock66 on Jul 24, 2006 13:31:06 GMT -7
These are all good descriptions and advices from the people that have owned and used these amps.I would like to add one thing to the previous folks comments.Please, if you know of anyone around your area that have these amps,it will be worthwhile if you can play these amps, then you will appreciate what each amp can do,this is just my opinion.Good luck.
BTW; I will offer the same as Jason if you ever around my area.
dock66.
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Post by Chris_Ferreira on Jul 24, 2006 17:47:28 GMT -7
You guys are uniformly awesome. Thanks for your responses. From the clips, I not only like the ES and Stang Ray better than the Maz38, but prefer the Maz 18 to the 38 as well. Maybe my ears are just wonky.
But sometimes I might just be getting distracted from the tone by the playing. Do I really like the StangRay more than the Maz38, or do I just prefer Brad Paisley's playing, confusing me into thinking that it's "gotta be the amp." (Kinda like the 90's Nike ad campaign).
But the general concensus seems to be that the Mazerati 38 is just about the most versatile amp that Dr Z makes, so I should at least play through one before discounting it.
I will keep an eye on what local dealers (Seattle & Portland) have in stock, and try and catch a show that benttop's playing with his Stang Ray. If it weren't for the RX ES, I probably would have put money down on a Ray already, as I have wanted that AC-30 sound for years.
Oh and Madison, thanks for the comparison between the two amps. As great as the Ray sounds, I'm still leaning towards the RX, but I really liked the Ray/Tele sounds. Great articulation, tone, and snap out of the strings. That Big Top Hat song/excerpt was really gorgeous sounding. Great clean sound.
It's also quite possible that I'm just making way too big a deal out of this. Both the RX ES and Ray sound so good that I can't quite imagine feeling bad about buying one of them.
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Post by teleking36 on Jul 24, 2006 21:29:02 GMT -7
Hey Chris,
I thought I'd chime in as well.
I'm the proud owner of Madison's RX ES head, and I haven't been let down yet. I had the EXACT same struggle you're having now: Stang Ray or RX??? It boggled my mind for months.
In the end, I knew I was getting a more versatile amp with the RX. While the cleans of the Stang Ray really impressed me, the RXES's cleans were equally impressive to me, and the amp just felt more dynamic overall. While the SR is an awesome amp, I'm sure I made the right decision on getting the RX ES.
FWIW, I also bought this amp based HEAVILY on various forum members' clips, and the clips from the Dr. Z website, because the closest dealer to me that actually HAD one in stock was about a 3+ hour drive. I didn't hesitate for a second when buying this amp. I knew what I was getting was pure quality, worksmanship, and tone.
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Post by Chris_Ferreira on Jul 25, 2006 2:30:25 GMT -7
Hey Teleking,
Thanks for the response. I have the same feeling as you. I love the sound of the Stang Ray, but once I heard the RX ES, it was hard to get that sound out of my head. Hearing Madison and Aruntang's samples of the guitar -- the tone is just very very well defined and "solid", for lack of a better term.
If you don't mind my asking, what sort of music are you using the RX ES for, and do you use pedals for distortion/drive, or just the amp?
Perhaps more importantly, how does the overdose/boost function of the amp work. Can you use it to drive/distort the amp at (relatively speaking) "lower" volumes first, or do you have to crank the amp volume first?
I'd love to hear how you are using the amp.
Thanks.
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Post by teleking36 on Jul 25, 2006 7:52:26 GMT -7
I'd be happy to share that info with ya.
I play blues, rock, and alt-country/country rock with the RX ES, and it's perfect in every application (for me). The music I play exclusively, and write/record is close to Wilco, Ryan Adams, Gram Parsons, Counting Crows, etc....in that genre.
Right now, I'm running a Paul Cochrane Timmy in front of the amp for my light/medium OD, and a Fulltone OCD either as a boost on top of the Timmy, or by itself for good Marshally leads. The Overdose is such a cool feature, but it's something I'd only use for large-sized gigs. It really makes the amp bloom and gets the tubes distorting. It's not really usable at lower volumes, because it's meant to jack everything up when it's on. That's why I stick to my pedals at home and at small gigs, and save the Overdose for outdoor gigs or larger venues.
Either way, the RX ES takes pedals very well, and the Overdose sounds awesome when engaged.
I'm currently running my RX ES through a ZBest 2x12 loaded with a Weber Alnico Silver Bell 30w and the stock G12H30. Getting just what I want out of this speaker pair. I've got a 1x12 cab on its way from J Design Cabs in Cali that should be here on 7/31. Very anxious to see how things will pan out with that setup. I'm hoping I can get close to the sound my 2x12 is giving me, but in a smaller package.
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Post by Bill on Aug 4, 2006 6:12:22 GMT -7
Just wanted to add a few more observations to this thread. Last night we had a three hour practice, me on the 'Ray into a Z 1x12 open back, and the other guitarist on an RxES into a Z 1x12 closed back. My pedal board was a Barber Tone press/ Keeley RAT, his was an old Ross comp/ Keeley TS9.
Half way through the practice we unplugged our Tele's and switched rigs.
Not surprisingly, these are REALLY two entirely different sounding amps. IMHO, the RxES is far better suited to rock/blues tones...quite powerful and percussive...awesome amp...but I couldn't quite get the fat warm tone on the Tele bridge that I can on the 'Ray. Found myself using less "pedal steel" bends and MORE flat pick on the ES...just the opposite of the 'Ray.
At one point I stopped playing and just listened to the other guitarist across the room on my Stingray...WOW, he was adding SO much to the song...softer attack, very clean & warm & pleasing...could listen for hours without ear fatigue.
I guess all this left me realizing why the two amps work so dang well together. This Z gas just never stops! Since I've been down the ES road (and have access to one), I'd love to add a Rt 66 to the equation...two heads into one 1x12 cabinet, very portable and would cover a LOT of bases.
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Post by Hohn on Aug 4, 2006 7:52:16 GMT -7
Might cover a lot of bassists, too ;D
NOt that that's ever a bad thing.....
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Post by dock66 on Aug 4, 2006 8:16:37 GMT -7
Hey Madison,
I was reading what you wrote about RxES and Ray and feeling happy with what I have and then all a sudden you hit me with last paragraph with Rt 66. This is the kind of things that makes me broke.I can never seem to be happy with just one Z amp,I find myself GASSING for more .Since I jioned this forum I am about to go broke ,soon or later,I will end up owning all Z amps, then what is next after Zs.
It is all good.Doc makes excellent amps and Cabs and Air Brakes.He always left us Gassing for more.
dock66
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Post by Bill on Aug 4, 2006 11:54:04 GMT -7
Hey Madison, I was reading what you wrote about RxES and Ray and feeling happy with what I have and then all a sudden you hit me with last paragraph with Rt 66. This is the kind of things that makes me broke.I can never seem to be happy with just one Z amp,I find myself GASSING for more .Since I jioned this forum I am about to go broke ,soon or later,I will end up owning all Z amps, then what is next after Zs. It is all good.Doc makes excellent amps and Cabs and Air Brakes.He always left us Gassing for more. dock66 dock, you have an impressive Z collection my friend! I have no doubt you WILL end up owning most...like Myles. And yes, this forum plays a big role in creating uncontrollable GAS.
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Post by Curt on Aug 4, 2006 14:49:33 GMT -7
I'm feelin' the NEED for an RXES...'cause it's one I haven't had !!!!
I can here Bocephus "I like to have Z amps I've never had...".
I wish I coulda kept 'em all .... Oh well, we got to own them for awhile huh Bill?
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Post by Bill on Aug 5, 2006 17:00:53 GMT -7
I'm feelin' the NEED for an RXES...'cause it's one I haven't had !!!! I can here Bocephus "I like to have Z amps I've never had...". I wish I coulda kept 'em all .... Oh well, we got to own them for awhile huh Bill? A buddy just bought an RxES today. Last night he demoed it at a gig, and I went out to hear him (and have some BBQ & ale ). Sounded killer, as I expected. He also ended up talking me into selling my 1x12 greenie, formerly Drew's, yours and Chad's! So he was all Z'd up & lovin' it last night. Me, I've gotta get a Rt66...the Z gas just NEVER seems to end! You've got two Curt, how 'bout hooking a brutha up!
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Post by Curt on Aug 5, 2006 19:16:14 GMT -7
I'm feelin' the NEED for an RXES...'cause it's one I haven't had !!!! I can here Bocephus "I like to have Z amps I've never had...". I wish I coulda kept 'em all .... Oh well, we got to own them for awhile huh Bill? A buddy just bought an RxES today. Last night he demoed it at a gig, and I went out to hear him (and have some BBQ & ale ). Sounded killer, as I expected. He also ended up talking me into selling my 1x12 greenie, formerly Drew's, yours and Chad's! So he was all Z'd up & lovin' it last night. Me, I've gotta get a Rt66...the Z gas just NEVER seems to end! You've got two Curt, how 'bout hooking a brutha up! Probably can do that Buddy Plan to move one of them. So ya sold greenie huh? Wasn't sure if you got it or not, I'd asked Drew to be sure and give ya a shot. Jonesin' hard for a RXES for quite awhile and could actually use the power these day's, I know where a couple are And with the SRZ just 6 short months away..... I just need to decide which one I want to keep. a 66 and a 'Ray would be awesome for what you do Bill.
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Post by Chris_Ferreira on Aug 5, 2006 22:59:48 GMT -7
Hey Madison,
Thanks for the additional info. Sadly, it comes too late for my checking account.
I really did mean to do exhaustive amounts of research and playing Z amps before doing anything rash, but the RX Extra Strength was just too much tone for my self-discipline to withstand.
I got it on Thursday from UPS (and there were certainly some sleepness nights wondering just what shape it would be in when it finally arrived), and plugged it into my Green 2x12 and started playing.
Of course, since I was in my apartment, the volume had to stay below 8 with the tone controls all the way down. Even then, I was impressed with the amp's sensitivity to my dynamics/attack.
I got to play it good and loud in my friend's studio Thursday, and for a good 2 or three hours today, and the RX ES did not disappoint. The tone is so natural and organic (even when the amp is being pushed pretty hard) that I really didn't see much use for my pedals. With the volume just a little past twelve and the overdose engaged I was getting very close to Zeppelin I and III sounds, and given that Jimmy Page is my idol, I was very very happy. I have been trying to get those tones for years, and this is as close as I've ever gotten.
I've got rehearsal tomorrow, and then I'm playing a party/jam tomorrow evening, outdoors, and I'm guessing it's just going to be my Les Paul straight into the Prescription.
I'm broke, but very pleased with the purchase. I really appreciate all the advice/info you guys provided. It gave me some peace of mind, as buying something that I hadn't really heard/played through was pretty scary.
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Post by dock66 on Aug 7, 2006 6:04:08 GMT -7
Hey Madison
Thanks for the kind words.For now,I envy what Myles got in his collctions.
dock66
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