amusk
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Post by amusk on Dec 13, 2008 9:09:31 GMT -7
I took everyones advice and got a Mislabled 5V4 from KCA NOS Tubes. And it made the my MAZ jr sound a lot clearer and cleaner. It really opened up the amp. Thanks for the advice.
I always thought recitifiers had nothing to do with tone. What causes the improvement?
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Post by telejas on Dec 13, 2008 9:37:34 GMT -7
I'd like to know the answer to this question as well...... I always thought that Rectifier tubes just converted the AC power to "usable" power for the amp. You can have two of the same type but different brands, lest say a gz34, and they'll sound different.
Why/how does it do this?
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Post by zdogma on Dec 13, 2008 11:24:49 GMT -7
I think (no expert here) that the NOS rectifers are much more consistently meeting the "specs" for voltage and current. In theory they should be the same, but if the NOS rectifier supplier a bit more voltage, and supplies it a touch more quickly, it will change the sound.
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Post by iggs on Dec 13, 2008 18:31:10 GMT -7
I think (no expert here) that the NOS rectifers are much more consistently meeting the "specs" for voltage and current. In theory they should be the same, but if the NOS rectifier supplier a bit more voltage, and supplies it a touch more quickly, it will change the sound. That's exactly it ... you're finally hearing what the amp is supposed to sound like, with proper voltage and current supplied from a rectifier that's of proper spec. New productions rectos are crap.
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amusk
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Post by amusk on Dec 13, 2008 20:08:32 GMT -7
How about the Groove tube recs?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2008 20:28:57 GMT -7
I think (no expert here) that the NOS rectifers are much more consistently meeting the "specs" for voltage and current. In theory they should be the same, but if the NOS rectifier supplier a bit more voltage, and supplies it a touch more quickly, it will change the sound. Might change the feel of the amp, also.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2008 20:30:48 GMT -7
How about the Groove tube recs? It won't be up to the spec. of NOS nor will it last as long but it will work fine.
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Post by myles on Dec 15, 2008 11:13:03 GMT -7
I took everyones advice and got a Mislabled 5V4 from KCA NOS Tubes. And it made the my MAZ jr sound a lot clearer and cleaner. It really opened up the amp. Thanks for the advice. I always thought recitifiers had nothing to do with tone. What causes the improvement? Some folks think a rectifier has no bearing on tone and this is somewhat true IF you are comparing two rectifiers that meet design spec. Comparing NOS and new production is not an accurate test as new production rectifiers generally do not meet spec in one or more areas. Their voltages can be off of design spec ... too low and at times way too high but their voltage drop at current rating specified is way too much. So ... why did it sound better rather than just feel tighter or have some other change? You have proper voltage now, the amp develops full power and operates in the proper range as per it's design. As a side note, NOS rectifiers are about 10,000 times more reliable than current production rectifiers. Happy playing.
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Post by myles on Dec 15, 2008 11:16:04 GMT -7
How about the Groove tube recs? The older GT 5Y3's were great as they were NOS. The current crop of Groove Tubes rectifiers are the same production stuff you can get from anybody that handles new stuff ... primarily Sovtek and JJ. The GT stuff is generally more pricy in a lot of cases and there is no testing GT does on rectifiers other than make sure they "work" which is no different than any other tube vendor so the increase in price may not make sense to logical minds.
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Post by fastfrets (Bob) on Jan 6, 2009 21:07:40 GMT -7
I took everyones advice and got a Mislabled 5V4 from KCA NOS Tubes. And it made the my MAZ jr sound a lot clearer and cleaner. It really opened up the amp. Thanks for the advice. I just tried the mislabeled 5V4 in my MAZ 18 and to my ears, the stock JJ has more punch, and possibly more harmonics. I was prepared to have the NOS improve my sound and was very surprised that the JJ was better (to my ears). Why did this happen? Could the JJ be producing higher voltages from the power supply? I am dumbfounded.
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Post by cementedman on Jan 6, 2009 22:15:16 GMT -7
well, i have three nos rectifiers,, and i thought about putting one in my new ezg50 (there is a sovtek in it) but, it sounds great like it is, so i think i will just leave it,, doc tuned it with the sovtek and if it aint broke, i am not going to fix it,, also, the ezg50 had a 5 u4gb for awhile and then the doc decided to ship em with 5AR4'S,,i think anyway
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Post by fastfrets (Bob) on Jan 6, 2009 22:41:58 GMT -7
well, i have three nos rectifiers,, and i thought about putting one in my new ezg50 (there is a sovtek in it) but, it sounds great like it is, so i think i will just leave it,, doc tuned it with the sovtek and if it aint broke, i am not going to fix it,, also, the ezg50 had a 5 u4gb for awhile and then the doc decided to ship em with 5AR4'S,,i think anyway I am inclined not to fix it if it isn't broken from now on. I don't think you're going to outdo the Doc. He has an EH 12AX7 in V1, a JJ ECC833 in V2, a Sovtek 12AX7LPS in V3, JJ EL84 output tubes and a JJ rectifier. I don't think this is an accident. The long plate in V3 (phase inverter) is no accident for sure. I was going to try a couple of RCA NOS 12AX7s in V1 and V3 of my RXJr but I think it sounds fine as it is. It ain't broke . . .
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amusk
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Post by amusk on Jan 7, 2009 6:34:23 GMT -7
My maz jr came with a Sovtek and the NOS did make a nice difference. Who knows maybe the JJ's are better for your amp. The joy of searching for tone.
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Post by fastfrets (Bob) on Jan 7, 2009 14:56:27 GMT -7
My maz jr came with a Sovtek and the NOS did make a nice difference. Who knows maybe the JJ's are better for your amp. The joy of searching for tone. What makes it interesting is that my amp is a MAZ Jr as well.
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Post by deaconblues on Jan 18, 2009 17:50:45 GMT -7
Maybe the JJ is actually within spec.
I've had good luck with JJ's in the past. Though, in my Ghia the EL84's tended to sound a bit brittle to me. The Stock Gt's sounded better, but a set of NOS GE's from Mike @ KCA sound the best hands down.
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newdr
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Post by newdr on Jan 19, 2009 11:32:27 GMT -7
My two cents; I have retubed my whole amp with old tubes...the old mullard rectifier made a big difference as did the old telefunken 12ax7 in the first position. I think the Dr. would ship all amps with NOS tubes if they were available and cost effective. I don't look at it as I am trying to outdo the Dr. But to my ears these tubes that were made when quality meant something really livened up my Jr and I would not use anything else. I don't have a lot of equipment like some here, but what I have sounds great to me. Thanks, Randy
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2009 12:55:10 GMT -7
I only put in an NOS rec because I was afraid of being let down with the chinese one that came in it. I spent close to $150 for an NOS valvo from KCA, I then decided I wanted a back up and bought a Mullard I found from another vendor. The Mullard is the one I'm using right now with the Valvo as the backup. To be honest I really can't be sure there is a difference. The Valvo, to me sounds pretty much the same as the original rec that came in my Stangray. I used the Valvo for a couple months before I put the Mullard in and I'm thinking maybe I've got some more clean headroom but I can't be sure if I really do or if I think I do because someone on this forum suggested that I would get more clean headroom. I'm buying up some NOS EF86 tubes for pretty much the same reason. Not so much tone but for reliability reasons. Although as I try new ones I will be listening for possible sonic differences. I've been using an NOS Jan-Phillips in the 12AX7 (PI) position and I'm pretty sure its got a warmer, darker tone than the original. Of all the tubes I've changed it seems that may be the one I can tell the most difference. As for power tubes, I doubt I'll ever use NOS there. I've got amazing tones happening from my Stangray with the JJ tubes I've been using.
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Post by edoetsch on Jan 21, 2009 19:43:48 GMT -7
I think (no expert here) that the NOS rectifers are much more consistently meeting the "specs" for voltage and current. In theory they should be the same, but if the NOS rectifier supplier a bit more voltage, and supplies it a touch more quickly, it will change the sound. So wouldn't solid state provide this as well and then be superior even to NOS? There must be something "pleasant" about tube rectifiers over SS. Or am I talking 2 different things. total voltage/current vs speed of AC to DC conversion?
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Post by zdogma on Jan 21, 2009 20:40:39 GMT -7
I agree, its that bit of compression you get with the GZ 34 that makes it so cool. With the SS rectifiers you get consistency, for sure, but you don't get the sag. Personally I really like SS rectifiers in certain amps, they're great in Plexis, but I think an SS rect would take some of the magic out of an amp like the Route 66.
WHen I said NOS are more consistant, I meant to the GZ 34/5AR4 spec: voltage drop, rise time, etc. I have had new production ones that didn't really behave like GZ34 should, and others that were very good.
I hope that clarifies things a bit, its a hard thing to describe.
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