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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2008 4:58:02 GMT -7
This horse may have been beat to death somewhere else, but I can't find it if it's already been discussed.
I've been buying NOS tubes for my old Fenders for a while because they do sound better and last longer. No question about it. Now that I have a couple Z's, I'm learning that current production rectifier tubes and EF86's don't hold up as well as NOS tubes. It got me wondering why. Why doesn't someone build NOS quality tubes today? I would think they could charge significantly more for their product and gain a fast following, especially as the NOS supply dries up.
Just curious.
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Post by smolder on Nov 27, 2008 8:01:34 GMT -7
There was a 20 minute black an white film (youtube) posted on TPG a while back that showed the process of manufacturing tubes. I was stunned at how many parts, how labor intense, and exacting the process is... and frankly what a boring job it would be to make some of those part. granted this could be automated these days, but the machining would be expensive.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2008 9:05:41 GMT -7
Thanks for the reply, smolder. I remember seeing that video. Pretty interesting, but like you said, what a boring job!
If I had to guess, I'd guess the reason current tubes aren't as good as NOS is because of the components, but I may be way off the mark. I would assume Myles could clear this up. Until then, I'll keep buying NOS!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2008 9:57:25 GMT -7
The environmental restrictions, in the US, are cost prohibitive. So you won't see too many made here. The internal components, if made properly, are very expensive. A proper strong vacuum, is time consuming and costly.
Do a search in the "Tubes" section of Z-Talk. I am fairly sure this has been discussed here before.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2008 12:18:58 GMT -7
Do a search in the "Tubes" section of Z-Talk. I am fairly sure this has been discussed here before. It's tough to search for this topic since the word "NOS" is automatically removed as a search term. I'm not sure how to word the search! I read a bunch of posts, and never read anything that said why someone can't build 'em as good as they did back in the 50's. Just seems odd to me.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2008 13:17:35 GMT -7
Do a search in the "Tubes" section of Z-Talk. I am fairly sure this has been discussed here before. It's tough to search for this topic since the word "NOS" is automatically removed as a search term. I'm not sure how to word the search! I read a bunch of posts, and never read anything that said why someone can't build 'em as good as they did back in the 50's. Just seems odd to me. Yeah I've tried to use the search before and find it pretty much useless in most circumstances as it removes all 3 letter words
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Post by amakitalo on Nov 27, 2008 14:56:06 GMT -7
I think the problem is partly caused by the fact that in the 50's tubes were used everywhere: hospitals, military etc., so the market place was huge and obviously the requirements for quality were strict.
Today the market place is considerably smaller with military and hospitals using entirely different technology. If there are quality issues today, they won't result in losing a huge military contract as an example. I am sure that it would be possible to manufacture tubes that are as high a quality as in the 50's if the massive market was there and if people were willing to pay for the quality.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2008 17:43:13 GMT -7
Good point, amakitalo. I suppose the demand created by guitar players is too low to justify the expense. Bummer!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2008 20:58:08 GMT -7
Do a search in the "Tubes" section of Z-Talk. I am fairly sure this has been discussed here before. It's tough to search for this topic since the word "NOS" is automatically removed as a search term. I'm not sure how to word the search! I read a bunch of posts, and never read anything that said why someone can't build 'em as good as they did back in the 50's. Just seems odd to me. ches, You can "Ask Myles" in the "Ask the Experts" section. He is very knowledgeable concerning all things tube.
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Post by myles on Dec 4, 2008 12:40:13 GMT -7
It is not as much of an environmental issue as it is a labor issue. Tubes are hand assembled and labor in the USA is much more pricy than offshore.
Then again, if you could buy a 12AX7 that sounded great and lasted 25 years or longer I think most folks would buy them even at $50 a pop and that is within the economic reality of things if the tubes were produced in the USA.
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Post by flem on Dec 4, 2008 13:28:01 GMT -7
I think the problem is partly caused by the fact that in the 50's tubes were used everywhere: hospitals, military etc., so the market place was huge and obviously the requirements for quality were strict. Today the market place is considerably smaller with military and hospitals using entirely different technology. If there are quality issues today, they won't result in losing a huge military contract as an example. I am sure that it would be possible to manufacture tubes that are as high a quality as in the 50's if the massive market was there and if people were willing to pay for the quality. I knew someone that worked on military avionics, one of their fixes for gain in a circuit was popping out the slightly used 12AX7's for fresh ones, he said the used ones were tossed into a box and thrown out without a second thought. He does a facepalm everytime he talks about it.
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Post by myles on Dec 4, 2008 13:42:01 GMT -7
I think the problem is partly caused by the fact that in the 50's tubes were used everywhere: hospitals, military etc., so the market place was huge and obviously the requirements for quality were strict. Today the market place is considerably smaller with military and hospitals using entirely different technology. If there are quality issues today, they won't result in losing a huge military contract as an example. I am sure that it would be possible to manufacture tubes that are as high a quality as in the 50's if the massive market was there and if people were willing to pay for the quality. I knew someone that worked on military avionics, one of their fixes for gain in a circuit was popping out the slightly used 12AX7's for fresh ones, he said the used ones were tossed into a box and thrown out without a second thought. He does a facepalm everytime he talks about it. I can't begin to count all the original equipment 12AX7s and other small signal tubes pulled from vintage amps that when tested have better results than 90% of new production stuff.
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