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Post by smolder on Nov 13, 2008 9:11:21 GMT -7
I am surprised and could use some sage advice here...
I am playing a regular Wednesday gig in a small 50 - 100 seat bar. The mix is classic rock and blues... the standard two guitars, bass and drums.
Last night I could not get enough volume.
I was running my Carmen Ghia dime'd... through a 1x12 blue open back and a 1x12 G12M30 closed... and using a RC Boost. I 've been playing a LesPaul with burstbuckers. It's fine for the most part but the other guitar player regularly tells me I need to be louder on solo's. I am certainly not drowning out the bass and drums.
I have several options but not sure more speakers are the answer. Thinking next week I will take the Maz Jr and maybe the Z 2x12 and see if that helps. I am frankly a bit surprised...
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Post by TheRetreat on Nov 13, 2008 9:41:39 GMT -7
You could try a Fulltone Fat Boost or Full Drive to boost your volume on solos... Both have a clean boost -- increasing volume substantially.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Nov 13, 2008 10:14:39 GMT -7
If your amp is already putting out maximum watts, adding boost will not make you louder, but it may reduce articulation (by increasing distortion) which has the effect of making you less distinct. You could try actually lowering your volume to recover some articulation.
But if you really aren't loud enough, switching to the Maz Jr probably won't get you there either. You should consider running both amps - that would definitely give you a 3db boost in perceived volume.
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Post by smolder on Nov 13, 2008 11:22:49 GMT -7
I was alternating between an RC and the Flying dragon boosts... but you make sense... if the amp is dime's it is dime'd.
Hearing myself during rythm work was difficult and I could hear myself well during solos... but that is more of a tonal dynamic thing that a volume issue. The real solutions would seem to be mic'ing the amp... but this set up is not that sophisticated.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2008 12:32:06 GMT -7
I was alternating between an RC and the Flying dragon boosts... but you make sense... if the amp is dime's it is dime'd. Hearing myself during rythm work was difficult and I could hear myself well during solos... but that is more of a tonal dynamic thing that a volume issue. The real solutions would seem to be mic'ing the amp... but this set up is not that sophisticated. A mic and a channel doesn't sound too sophisticated.
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Post by hermanmonker on Nov 13, 2008 12:41:03 GMT -7
I use 2 ,1x12 cabs one on top of the other with beam blockers in them with my Maz Jr on top, and they sit on a 21/2" homemade plinth like the auralex grandma.after getting used to the beam bockers I wont be without them now as I seem to hear the cabs much better ,and especially with the cabs one on top of the other as apposed to side by side.The plinth has helped disconnect the sound from the floor and it seems to be clearer ,as I been told by many a person at the gigs that my tone just cuts through. I have also found that pubs with carpet fitted as apposed to say tiles used to absorb some of my sound before I started using the plinth and also I got some more efficient speakers .I also have found though experimentation that I use a closed back cab on the plinth and a cab with a 4" gap on the back similar to the Avatar Cabs,and now I seem to be happy as my experiments have taken about 18 months to reach what I use today in order to hear what I'm playing.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Nov 13, 2008 13:03:24 GMT -7
That's a good point. I was having a hard time hearing my Maz Jr until I got a Z Convertible cab to sit it on. Now one speaker is right up at waist level, and the other is sitting on the floor where it can interact and help generate more solid bottom end. It really worked great - in fact I was able to turn down a bit. You should try that if you have a way to get another cab under there.
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Post by John on Nov 13, 2008 13:08:42 GMT -7
I have found it strange that using only 1 speaker seems to be a bit louder than 2x12....given the same amp and settings.
Also, the G12M in a closed back.... The M is not an overly efficient speaker at 98db. You could get a louder one. (the blue is 100db...2db more...a significant amount) Switching from the closed back to an open back will 'fill up the stage' with sound, rather than focus the sound and send it directly out into the audience. (and not at the band) With an openback, part of the sound comes out the back, bounces off the wall, and fills the stage.
My quick fix recommendation:
Leave the closed back cab in the car. Try the gig with just the openback blue
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2008 13:10:19 GMT -7
That's a good point. I was having a hard time hearing my Maz Jr until I got a Z Convertible cab to sit it on. Now one speaker is right up at waist level, and the other is sitting on the floor where it can interact and help generate more solid bottom end. It really worked great - in fact I was able to turn down a bit. You should try that if you have a way to get another cab under there. So, would this maybe be a good reason for me to opt for the CG head and the 2X10 convertible head, instead of the combo?
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Post by smolder on Nov 13, 2008 13:17:23 GMT -7
Mine were stacked. I put the open/blue on top thinking that the better high end near my ears would be a help. And the closed on bottom would project (ankles are thinner that bass player's midsections).
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Nov 13, 2008 15:26:00 GMT -7
Sounds like time for a few more watts...
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Post by smolder on Nov 13, 2008 15:45:55 GMT -7
Sounds like time for a few more watts... Well, I did start this whole Dr Z journey with a route 66 in mind. (feeding that gas beast again?) I may take the Maz... and maybe the 2x10 cabinet along with the Ghia next week and see how it goes. A two amp rig for this gig is a probably a bit overboard. Lot's (most) of folks just use the two peavey house amps. I really appreciate all of the input and suggestions.
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Post by Phil (aka Phil) on Nov 13, 2008 16:21:00 GMT -7
Just get one of these ;D
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Post by stuey222 on Nov 13, 2008 16:52:01 GMT -7
Another thought. Are your power tubes older? That could be a bit of it as well.
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Post by smolder on Nov 13, 2008 18:13:35 GMT -7
Another thought. Are your power tubes older? That could be a bit of it as well. That's easy enough to figure out (since the Ghia is new to me but not new)... gotta couple brand new sets... thanks, had not thought of that.
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Post by Fiestared69 on Nov 14, 2008 8:48:26 GMT -7
Your Maz with a 2x10 cab should get the job done!!! The 2x10's are real efficent and should cut through the mix!
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Post by Lizard Leg on Nov 15, 2008 15:57:48 GMT -7
A boost is only going to boost to whatever volume/gain is left in the amp - if you have a lot of clean headroom left, then the volume boost can be substantial. If you are right on the edge with a little grit dialed in, a boost will give a volume boost and push you over the edge into some grit and growl. If you’re amp is already dimed out, then about all you get is a load of compression and, at least to me, the sound starts losing clarity and gets muddy.
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Post by tweedpro on Nov 16, 2008 11:11:57 GMT -7
Is your tone brighter or darker? If you tend to go toward the darker sound on the tone spectrum it will take more power to drive the sound and you will get lost in the mix in a band setting.
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Post by dixiechicken on Nov 18, 2008 8:00:23 GMT -7
DC here!
Run the Ghia through two "blues" instead. Should give you a volume boost.
Cheers: Dixiechicken!
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Post by smolder on Nov 20, 2008 10:26:42 GMT -7
Update... same gig a week later... same players and perceived volume level and I used the Ghia again.
I took the 2x10 convertible instead of the 2x12. Also realized that I had put a 12BH7 in the PI last week to see if I cold push the breakup to a later/louder point on the volume knob. I really think that tube was a huge factor in reducing overall volume of the amp last week.
Now if only my playing was anywhere near as stellar as my tone.
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Post by Rich (fbb90) on Nov 20, 2008 14:17:44 GMT -7
Now if only my playing was anywhere near as stellar as my tone. I know that feeling!!!!
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Post by eliot1025 on Nov 21, 2008 3:05:25 GMT -7
You could try an tilted baffle or a tilted cab. If there's a big enough angle it may help a little. The angle on old Fender tweeds was about 2.5 degrees. That wouldn't do you much good in close quarters. Many cab makers offer up to 5 degree on their baffles. JDesigns is one of them. +1 on the open backed cabs and the beam blockers - they'll help disperse your sound. Raising the cab off the floor will make a dramatic difference but you'll lose bass response. Of course, you could suggest that the rest of the band play quieter. )
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Post by smolder on Nov 21, 2008 10:17:41 GMT -7
quieter? seriously? But I really like that it is loud.
Actually, I drew up a design for this. It would be a 2x12 vertical cabinet with the top speaker facing straight ahead with an open back. The bottom speaker is at an degree angle (could be as much as 45 degrees) pointing up... and sealed. That way you get the fllor/bass response. I may have to build one just to see if it would work.
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