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Post by hdahs143 on Oct 14, 2005 20:09:21 GMT -7
Man, those pedals must be sucking some serious high end, because if I ever had my cut and treble that set that high, it would crack glass ;D The fact that you kinda noticed it over time could be attributed to several things such as tube wear, and battery wear in the pedals (if you use batteries). Everything on my pedalboard is true bypass. I had always run all of my effects except delay in to the front of the amp, and delay in the loop. Recently, just for grins, I decided to pull the delay out of the loop and run it into the front of the amp as well. It was a subtle difference, but I like this better. The amp sounded better and seemed to have a bit more natural sustain. And as a plus, now there is only one cable between the board and the amp instead of three Now that I think about it, I always thought a nice Twin with some quality pedals was a great sound and it doesn't have a loop. I guess the moral of the story is to experiment and enjoy all the tonal discoveries along the way!
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Post by bluzsteel on Oct 14, 2005 20:58:59 GMT -7
Its my understanding there are only a few things that should go through a loop, for sure not every thing ............I dont use it at all. I say go in the front
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Post by guitarboy02451 on Oct 16, 2005 13:46:52 GMT -7
Looks like I'll have to try some monster cables...
pg
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Post by hdahs143 on Oct 17, 2005 19:49:41 GMT -7
The George L's are a good choice and not goofy expensive. Get a suitable length of cable, all the ends you need and go to town! They've always worked great for me and sound quality/degredation has never been an issue.
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Post by jwr on Oct 21, 2005 8:13:29 GMT -7
I've been fighting this issue as well. I'm using monster cable in front of my amp and in my loop. I use a Fulltone Fat Boost and Clyde Deluxe in front of my amps and a MXR Chorus and 10 Band EQ in my loop. The MXR pedals sound really good, especially the chorus, it leaves my tone intact. But no matter who makes the pedal, how it's made, I think it's gonna effect your tone. I found myself making the decision on whether or not to keep a pedal in my rig based on this: is the loss of signal worth it. Sort of a give and take mind set. There are some effects that a player can't live without and you just have to deal with the good and the bad side effects. I think that a lot of company's are using the term "true bypass" unfairly and irresponsably.
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Post by charlienc on Oct 22, 2005 18:08:55 GMT -7
what's up Paul,
i actually experienced this exact same phenomenon with my Maz Jr. I was in Fat Sound one day and asked one of the guys there, it wasn't Stu, maybe Mike, I can't really remember, and he said that it definitely had something to do with the pedal. I don't remember the technical explanation, but it's something to this effect: The way Boss and most stompboxes are designed is to be placed in front of an amp. Because of this, it is necessary to design them in a way that they won't fry your amps front end. You know, like you can do with a Z-Vex Super Hard On. I've seen it happen before. Anyway, I've never really had anything nicer (pedal wise) to test out his explanation but it made sense to me, so I've never though twice about it.
so i kind of left that hanging. basically, what you've determined is the only way to get the effects loop to not get funky is to use something specifically made to go in an effects loop, hence the G-Major sounding groovy. all stomp boxes, regardless of their function, delay, verb, whatever, basically are going to work best in the front of the amp. that's just my take on it, personal experience. like i said, I'm not really sure why this is, but (i'm really stretching here) I think it has something to do with an effect that's made for an effects loop as a balanced (word choice? regulated or something like that) type of signal.
it's like this. and i can think of a pretty easy way to relate this. when my rectifier tube went bad the other week, i had to go direct from my pedalboard into the mixer. hence, the unbalanced signal was extremely weak. it's the same way when you try to use your stompboxes in the loop.
hope that makes sense.
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Post by hdahs143 on Oct 22, 2005 22:26:28 GMT -7
First, the effects loop in your Z is an insert point between the preamp and power amp. It is not a buffered effects loop. A buffered loop contains additional circuitry that powers/pumps the signal through the loop and any device in the loop. This way, ideally the signal level at the return jack is the same as the signal level at the send jack. This is why when you jumper you effects loop with say your 12 or 21 ft cable, you experience the high end signal loss. You have just added 21 ft of signal path for the preamp to get the signal to the poweramp, but didn't provide the additional power needed to do it. Unplug the jumper and BAM! your high end is back. Now put put 5 pedals in series that are probably not boosting the "effected" signal to a sufficient level, add the cables, and you have got one loaded down effects loop.
If you think about it in terms of pumping water from point a to point b, and then adding point c which is uphill, it makes sense. You'll need more pump to get adequate water pressure at point c. Electricity works essentially the same way.
Hope this clears things up a bit.
Harold
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