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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2008 12:20:18 GMT -7
I just borrowed a Z28 (2x10 combo) from a friend. What an amazing amp. Love the tone. Very "familiar" sounding, as my ears seem to favor Fender tones.
I play rhythm in a classic rock cover band (2 guitars, bass, drums, and a singer). I've been running an old Deluxe Reverb through the PA for the last few years. We've gone through some changes, and we're downsizing what we take to a gig. No more running everything through the PA.
Can the Z28 stay clean enough to play a medium sized bar (200-250 people) without being miked, or should I go with a Route 66, or wait for the upcoming 4x6V6 model that's being discussed? Also - any idea when that new model is coming out? I need a solid clean tone, and can get dirt from pedals when needed, although, I really like the sound of the good Doctor's amps when pushed!
Thanks in advance . . .
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2008 16:48:22 GMT -7
I realize this has been asked about a hundred times before, and I apologize for being redundant! I suppose I should have asked if you are using a Z28 in this manner, and do you think your tone carries to the back of the house. I'd appreciate any input from guys who've gigged with a Z28 unmiked, and if they thought they needed something with more juice.
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Post by groovergeorge on Oct 14, 2008 17:14:19 GMT -7
200-250 people unmiked in a crowded noisy bar . I'm going to say with my single greenie, no. I'm not sure about those Dr Z 10's though and how much cut they have. I'd go with a Route 66 or maybe even a Galaxie.
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Post by Joey Beverages on Oct 14, 2008 18:33:05 GMT -7
I'd personally wanna mike the speaker/cab for a club situation involving 200 to 250 people ..... whether I had the 112 or 210 cab hooked-up. and, more than likely I would have my Galaxie in a situation like that and NOT mic it ..... cheers always, eh Joel just my .02, imho, ymmv, etc. etc. etc.
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Post by asattwanger on Oct 14, 2008 18:38:41 GMT -7
Ches, I would have to say no. It's more of a break up type of thing as soon as you get into any cord work at volume. Like if you tried to play Soul Man. You could get that perfect clean sound for the intro, but as soon as you went to the funky G verse part you would get some break up unless your playing really light. When you get to the I'm a Soul Man part depending on how you play that G-F part you could be really rockin. At 12,12,3 which for me is the loudest cleanish {sort of} tone i can get.
It's a great sound and I base what I do off of that, but I don't think it's the sound your looking for. On top of that I'm basing this off of my Trinity and the Classic Custom and not humbuckers
DAVE
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Post by fishman on Oct 14, 2008 19:50:04 GMT -7
I doubt that a 28 can cover it, actually I know it wont cover it. Unless the venue holds 1000 and there are only 250 in it... no way in a regular bar to get that sound out there. 250 people can be noisey...... I would think if you want clean your gonna have to mic it so start bringing in the bigger stuff.. depends on the definition of club, a standard bar or a venue with seating, more of a old Night Club scene....it may come close it the latter instance.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2008 19:56:35 GMT -7
Thanks for the responses, guys. The amp seems to be breaking up with humbuckers when I get everything up around 12. I can crank the volume higher if I cut the treble and bass to 9 and back off the guitar volume, but that doesn't give me the overall tone I like. The 2x10's have pretty good output, and would give me more than enough for most places we've played. (I plugged into a 1x12 Mesa cab, and I don't think it had quite the cut/punch of the 10's.) There's really one bar where we've played that gets pretty packed, and I'm trying to base my purchase on that place. I might want to reconsider since I really dig the tone of the Z28.
I'm still going to check out a Route 66, but I might go with the Z28 anyway and use it for "normal" gigs, and drag my Bogner out for anything larger.
** Edited to add . . . I ran my Les Paul through a Lovepedal Eternity (set at the lowest gain setting) into the Z28. Wow.
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Post by taswegian on Oct 14, 2008 20:37:33 GMT -7
Hmm, I would say thru a Z best it would go very close to doing what you need in a 200 people club. I played the Z-28/Z Best in a medium room unmiked with no problem at all. Mind you I probably had the volume and tones around 1 and wound back for the cleans, but thru the Z best you can get plenty of clean headroom and it's a loud cab. Or 4-10's maybe?
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Post by groovergeorge on Oct 14, 2008 21:00:35 GMT -7
Wow those Z best cabs must surely be loud. A 200 plus crowd up here at my local usually involves lots of beer, football on the big screen and a few folk with a couple of teeth missing. I guess 200 accountants eating cheese and drinking chardonnay might be cool. ;D
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Post by taswegian on Oct 14, 2008 21:58:44 GMT -7
Ha! Yes everyone drinks chardonnay at my gigs! ;D It was quite a large room about half full, that would make a difference as compared to 200 person room absolutely packed.
Actually George, it's a pretty amazing volume difference thru the Z best compared to your little greenie.
I sometimes run out of headroom with my Route 66 into inefficient 1-12 in a packed 80 people club. I've actualy pumped my 66 and Zbest in that room, yet when half full I REALLY have to watch the volume even thru the 1-12. I find room size isn't as significant as whether there is space between the people or if they are packed in. Density!!! ;D
I do think a Z-best and Z28 would cover most clubs unmiked though.
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Post by bustertheboy on Oct 14, 2008 23:20:11 GMT -7
I used the Z28 through a single red fang with about 200 noisy punter the other night. Clean chords at that volume- no. Rolling Stones crunch on the tele back pu- yes! Easily loud enough for that but mike up if you want clean, Brett
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Post by groovergeorge on Oct 14, 2008 23:46:48 GMT -7
Ha! Yes everyone drinks chardonnay at my gigs! ;D It was quite a large room about half full, that would make a difference as compared to 200 person room absolutely packed. Actually George, it's a pretty amazing volume difference thru the Z best compared to your little greenie. I sometimes run out of headroom with my Route 66 into inefficient 1-12 in a packed 80 people club. I've actualy pumped my 66 and Zbest in that room, yet when half full I REALLY have to watch the volume even thru the 1-12. I find room size isn't as significant as whether there is space between the people or if they are packed in. Density!!! ;D I do think a Z-best and Z28 would cover most clubs unmiked though. I'm not knocking the chardonnay drinking, cheese and horse derves limp wrist crowd by the way Jaye. You're a better man the me for getting that kinda work. It sure beats the owner who offers to pay you in beers. By the way, "Can you guys play some Shannon Noll?" ;D I think you know where I'm coming from.
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Post by ericcongdon on Oct 15, 2008 3:21:30 GMT -7
The answer is no. I'm gigging with a Z28 thru a greenie 1x12, and I'm having to mic it in the larger venues for sure. When I crank the Z28 past 11 0'clock the band starts giving me the "turn that lil' bastard down!" look anyways.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2008 4:04:18 GMT -7
I think my local dealer has a Z-Best on the floor. I'll have to check it out, but I don't think he has a Z28 in stock. I could always take my friends combo in to see how loud it can get. I think my concern is based on gigging a few times with my Deluxe Reverb unmiked. The big difference is, that starts breaking up around 4 and despite the fact that the watts are the same, I don't think it's anywhere near as loud as the Z28. Maybe I would be ok with a Z-Best.
This bar can get noisy, but we've had big crowds that actually listen to the music, dance, and clap after every song. That's nice, but I'd rather see them whoopin' it up!
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Post by jaystewart on Oct 16, 2008 20:36:19 GMT -7
If you like the tone of the Z28, which we obviously agree is a great sound, you're going to find that there are some rooms that you can cut the gig without a mic... there are other similar size rooms that you're going to have to mike to get a decent stage mix. I wouldn't buy a Route 66 just in hopes of avoiding the use of a mike. The Z28 has a quality clean tone w/ tons of headroom. I bought a sennheiser 609 mic for $100.00 bucks this afternoon. If I don't need it... great. If I do, I'll use it and still have that sweet Z28 tone.
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Post by groovergeorge on Oct 16, 2008 21:52:11 GMT -7
I agree with Jay.
Don't just buy a Route 66 because you want more of the same only louder. Big cousin or whatever the talk is about these two being kin folk, my humble opinion is, no they aint. If you wan't more headroom and want to keep that air-i-ness of an open cab and don't mind a bigger cab then I think a better choice is one of the Docs 4x10.
Just ask Curt............Enuff said!
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Post by taswegian on Oct 16, 2008 22:03:28 GMT -7
Ha! Yes everyone drinks chardonnay at my gigs! ;D It was quite a large room about half full, that would make a difference as compared to 200 person room absolutely packed. Actually George, it's a pretty amazing volume difference thru the Z best compared to your little greenie. I sometimes run out of headroom with my Route 66 into inefficient 1-12 in a packed 80 people club. I've actualy pumped my 66 and Zbest in that room, yet when half full I REALLY have to watch the volume even thru the 1-12. I find room size isn't as significant as whether there is space between the people or if they are packed in. Density!!! ;D I do think a Z-best and Z28 would cover most clubs unmiked though. I'm not knocking the chardonnay drinking, cheese and horse derves limp wrist crowd by the way Jaye. You're a better man the me for getting that kinda work. It sure beats the owner who offers to pay you in beers. By the way, "Can you guys play some Shannon Noll?" ;D I think you know where I'm coming from. Hey George, I'm playing the "Copper Mines Tasmania" christmas party in Queenstown (west coast) next month. I'll guarantee you there will be no chardonnay and cheese at THAT one! ;D Better get my Angus chops in shape!!!!
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Post by groovergeorge on Oct 17, 2008 4:18:53 GMT -7
Do you need me to send you down a flanno and a packet of Winnie blues Jaye? ;D
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