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Post by mnjordan on Apr 19, 2008 13:48:52 GMT -7
I was wondering - how does one dial in mids with the Z28. In fact, how middy of an amp is it? I still don't really understand how the tone stack works.
Im just curious because I've been playing my Matchless Lightning all day, and the thing just has no mids to speak of. It's too glassy - really shrill. All top and bottom, and there's just treble and bass knobs on it as well. I know that doesn't mean it will sound like the Z28.
I'm just hoping my Z28 is more middy than this Lightning.
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Post by fishman on Apr 19, 2008 17:48:05 GMT -7
I have found that the treble/bass controls can change the midrange on this amp. Its a situation of a small adjustment can make a large difference in the tone. The volume adds and changes things as well. Sort of a simple layout that does complex things.
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Post by Joey Beverages on Apr 20, 2008 7:50:00 GMT -7
Gotta agree, a little does a lot in terms of movin' the volume-treble-bass for changing the mids on the '28. Personally I use my 210 cab most of the time and haven't really worried about the mids too much .... Vol 11:00 Treb 12:30 Bass 1:00 and volume/tone control on guitar for flavor .... plus a few pedals ... just my .02, etc. etc. etc. ;D cheers always, eh Joel
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Post by UnclePat on Apr 20, 2008 16:17:42 GMT -7
Not had ANY issues with mids on mine with a 2x10 cab either. To me, keeping the tone controls backed off a little will let more mids come through, but even diming them I still have plenty with little or no tweaking on my guitar. This amp is as sonically perfect as they come.
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Post by asattwanger on Apr 20, 2008 19:08:02 GMT -7
This amp is as sonically perfect as they come. I know it isn't on topic, but I surfed today for a good amount of time with no reverb. When it sounds that good you don't need reverb.
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Post by mnjordan on Apr 20, 2008 20:34:47 GMT -7
Thanks guys. I'm going to be running a Brake with it, and eventually a Zendrive if it ever comes in. I feel confident now I'll be able to get those sweet mids.
I've heard Matchless amps are glassy, but this is ridiculous! I turn my tone knobs on my Strat to 1 or 2. The amp likes my R6 a little better with it's P90's.
Oh well, it's for sale anyway, gotta pay for the Z28 that should be in around the 30th.
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Post by UnclePat on Apr 21, 2008 5:03:34 GMT -7
The two tone controls also add gain as they're rolled up, so you may find the Zen and Airbrake catching a lot of dust. It's that good, and when you find the right speaker for you it only gets better.
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Post by Phil (aka Phil) on Apr 21, 2008 7:59:33 GMT -7
mnjordan, I know what you mean about the Matchless. That's one of the big reasons I was smitten by Dr. Z amps 10 years ago- Dr. Z really knows how to voice the midrange. All Z amps have tight bass and clear but not harsh highs, but the beauty of the Z's is the complex mids. Doc usually voices his amps around Celestion speakers. I personally have a Z-Best, a 1X12 Z Convertible cab with a G12H30, and an older Z 2x10 and the Z-28 sounds great with all of them.
The Z-28 uses 6V6 tubes, which are *usually* a little more "scooped" in the mids compared to something like a KT66 or EL34. I say usually because I've tried a lot of tubes in my Z28 and the JJ 6V6's are really midrangy to my ears for a 6V6. Built like a tank, but they have a very forward midrange that other 6V6's don't. They sound like a 6L6. I'm currently running NOS Sylvania's (biased at 24mA).
As far as the tone controls go, I like a top end that breaks up and a tight bottom end with my Strats. To get this on the Z-28 I run the treble from 3:00 to max. I start the bass at 9:00 and raise it until I just start to hear it "come in", and then stop. The mids are provided nicely by the Celestions. As you turn the volume up, the mids become more prominent as the amp distorts- it becomes more "Marshally".
Hope this helped.
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Post by oldwoodak on Apr 21, 2008 8:55:28 GMT -7
Hey Phil How did you come up with the 24mA bias value?? I recently changed out my rectifier to NOS phillips/sylvania (Could this change my plate voltage??) and output tube to Brimar 6V6GTs. At first check the bias was 30mA. I dropped it to 28mA. Sounds good. I guess I should try a range of biases to find out??
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Post by mnjordan on Apr 21, 2008 8:57:20 GMT -7
Jeez, thanks Phil. That sounds about perfect - our tastes sound eerily similar.
My 1x12 will have a G12H30 in it. I'll have to pick up a set of those JJ's to try at some point - where do you like to get yours?
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Post by asattwanger on Apr 21, 2008 9:13:08 GMT -7
Yeah your Zen drive might be to much. While I haven't used one I find light amounts of pedal distortion rounds out the Z-28 sound depending on what you want the sound to be.
Like Phil's set up V.12 B.9 T 3 oclock
What's super cool is for one song we play all I do it turn the Bass to 3 oclock and that's it. Sounds funny when I forget to turn the nob.
Yeah this amp rules
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Post by sudsysul on Apr 21, 2008 12:19:08 GMT -7
I think what you're looking for is low mids, and the Z28 will not disappoint. It's pretty corpulent in the mids area.
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Post by Phil (aka Phil) on Apr 21, 2008 13:53:06 GMT -7
Hey Phil How did you come up with the 24mA bias value?? I recently changed out my rectifier to NOS phillips/sylvania (Could this change my plate voltage??) and output tube to Brimar 6V6GTs. At first check the bias was 30mA. I dropped it to 28mA. Sounds good. I guess I should try a range of biases to find out?? You want to go by idle dissipation (also known as ID). To do that you need to know your tube's maximum dissipation (wattage rating) and your amp's plate voltage. I was shooting for 65% ID which is a good "average" figure. Go here: www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com/index2.htmlto Myles' awesome site, click on the little red button above the "optimized for Internet Explorer" sign. Save the Excel spreadsheet, open it, put in your amp's plate voltage and tube's maximum rating (just replace the default numbers of "380V" and "25W" on the spreadsheet). The "heat meter" graph should change to the bias figures that correspond to 10%, 20%, 30%, etc. of your tube's maximum dissipation. With my plate voltage and tubes, 65% came out to 24mA. I use a Weber Bias Rite that has the switch to display plate voltage or current because I'm lazy. ;D
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Post by Phil (aka Phil) on Apr 21, 2008 13:57:50 GMT -7
Jeez, thanks Phil. That sounds about perfect - our tastes sound eerily similar. My 1x12 will have a G12H30 in it. I'll have to pick up a set of those JJ's to try at some point - where do you like to get yours? I got mine from Bob at Eurotubes.com. His prices are great and his matching is *impeccable* - my JJ 6V6's were *identically* matched- not to just within .1mA, I mean dead nuts even. I was really impressed. I buy all my EL84's from him for my Z's now, and I picked up a set of KT77's for my SRZ.... KILLER. About the G12H30..... Don and I agree it's a great speaker, but I personally am addicted to my Z28 with my stock Z-best (one G12H30 and one V30). I hate V30's by themselves but they add a great high end clarity and cut to the G12H30's great bass and lower mids. That's why Doc in his infinite wisdom paired 'em up that way ;D
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Post by mnjordan on Apr 21, 2008 15:32:44 GMT -7
Excellent Phil, thanks again. I have the site bookmarked.
Here's a little K for all the help!
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Post by Joey Beverages on Apr 21, 2008 19:39:53 GMT -7
mnjordan, I know what you mean about the Matchless. That's one of the big reasons I was smitten by Dr. Z amps 10 years ago- Dr. Z really knows how to voice the midrange. All Z amps have tight bass and clear but not harsh highs, but the beauty of the Z's is the complex mids. Doc usually voices his amps around Celestion speakers. I personally have a Z-Best, a 1X12 Z Convertible cab with a G12H30, and an older Z 2x10 and the Z-28 sounds great with all of them. The Z-28 uses 6V6 tubes, which are *usually* a little more "scooped" in the mids compared to something like a KT66 or EL34. I say usually because I've tried a lot of tubes in my Z28 and the JJ 6V6's are really midrangy to my ears for a 6V6. Built like a tank, but they have a very forward midrange that other 6V6's don't. They sound like a 6L6. I'm currently running NOS Sylvania's (biased at 24mA). As far as the tone controls go, I like a top end that breaks up and a tight bottom end with my Strats. To get this on the Z-28 I run the treble from 3:00 to max. I start the bass at 9:00 and raise it until I just start to hear it "come in", and then stop. The mids are provided nicely by the Celestions. As you turn the volume up, the mids become more prominent as the amp distorts- it becomes more "Marshally". Hope this helped. Phil, very cool post ... think you have helped me with some tonalities that I had not yet considered with the '28. cheers always, eh Joel p.s. have gotten my '28 Marshall-y ... just not the way you suggested ... guess I got some things to try now ;D
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Post by Curt on Apr 21, 2008 20:12:57 GMT -7
Point'em all to 3:00 and get busy
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Post by Joey Beverages on Apr 25, 2008 15:06:35 GMT -7
Point'em all to 3:00 and get busy +1 on that .... and, put a couple of Flying Dragons between yer guitar and the '28 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D cheers always, eh Joel p.s. congrats on reaching 5000 posts
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Post by sudsysul on Apr 28, 2008 8:05:58 GMT -7
Happy 5,000 posts Curt.. there, now I've got @70
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