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Post by benttop (Steve) on Dec 18, 2007 8:58:58 GMT -7
I've only really tried my Alnico Golds, and they have been fine, but I'm not certain they are ideal. What are you all using, and which ones snapped your head when you heard them?
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Post by bsshiver on Dec 18, 2007 9:35:16 GMT -7
Hey! Just thought I'd introduce myself, since I'm new around here. My names Brian, and I've been playing Z's since somewhere around 2002 when I bought a Super-Z. Since then I've moved on to a mini-z (I was in an apartment), a Maz Jr., and now my go-to amp is a Mazerati GT. I'm in the Raleigh, NC area so I got all of these amps from Stu over at Fat Sound. He's a great guy and I can't say enough good things about him, his employees, and his store! Anyhow, I'm playing the GT through a Bogner 1x12 cube that I put a M75-8HP-LHDC 65 watt Scumback into. This speaker is a good bit better than the G12H30 I had in it before. The Celestion seemed to have a fizzy top-end that I was always trying to dial out (I play mostly single-coil guitars). The scumback has fixed that problem, and it sounds truly wonderful! Nice, smooth highs, a warm mid-range, and a very powerful, tight low end. It's also not as efficient as the G12H30, so that's helped out quite a bit in the loudness department. Overall, though, it sounds wonderful, and I highly recommend this combination. I must admit that I'm mostly a living room player, though, so I can't attest to how it sounds in a gigging situation. Anyhow, I've been lurking here for a long time, and figured now would be a good time to speak up! I'm glad to be here and I look forward to discussing this stuff with you guys in the future! B~
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Dec 18, 2007 15:13:59 GMT -7
Hey! Just thought I'd introduce myself, since I'm new around here. My names Brian, and I've been playing Z's since somewhere around 2002 when I bought a Super-Z. Since then I've moved on to a mini-z (I was in an apartment), a Maz Jr., and now my go-to amp is a Mazerati GT. I'm in the Raleigh, NC area so I got all of these amps from Stu over at Fat Sound. He's a great guy and I can't say enough good things about him, his employees, and his store! Anyhow, I'm playing the GT through a Bogner 1x12 cube that I put a M75-8HP-LHDC 65 watt Scumback into. This speaker is a good bit better than the G12H30 I had in it before. The Celestion seemed to have a fizzy top-end that I was always trying to dial out (I play mostly single-coil guitars). The scumback has fixed that problem, and it sounds truly wonderful! Nice, smooth highs, a warm mid-range, and a very powerful, tight low end. It's also not as efficient as the G12H30, so that's helped out quite a bit in the loudness department. Overall, though, it sounds wonderful, and I highly recommend this combination. I must admit that I'm mostly a living room player, though, so I can't attest to how it sounds in a gigging situation. Anyhow, I've been lurking here for a long time, and figured now would be a good time to speak up! I'm glad to be here and I look forward to discussing this stuff with you guys in the future! B~ Thanks "B" - you're the second person to advocate a Scumback in the last two days. Must be the phase of the moon or something. Thanks for your input, I most certainly appreciate it, and welcome to the forum! Karma for your first post.
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Post by bsshiver on Dec 18, 2007 19:55:08 GMT -7
Thanks for the Karma Anyone else have any suggestions? I'm interested in hearing them myself. B~
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Post by Curt on Dec 18, 2007 20:21:59 GMT -7
For the record "Scumbacks" are relabeled Webers And a 50 watt Weber ceramic Blue Dog light dope sounds great with the GT also. A Greenback (or two!) is a natural combination with the GT IMO.
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Post by bsshiver on Dec 18, 2007 20:40:00 GMT -7
Ted does indeed make the Scumback speakers, but let's not downplay the huge investment Jim Seavall (of Southbay Ampworks) put into their creation. He's a great guy to work with and I want to make sure he gets due credit as well! If anyone wants more information about them, check out www.southbayampworks.com. For some specifics on the history of their creation, you can find a detailed account here: www.southbayampworks.com/scumback_history.htmlAnyhow, I can imagine the greenbacks would sound great. I had a 2 x 12 cab with 2 Celestion Heritage G12Ms in it when I had my Maz Jr., and I could definitely see how they would benefit the GT!
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Dec 18, 2007 21:16:18 GMT -7
Interesting. I >>HAVE<< two Weber ceramic Blue Dogs in 50 Watt with light dope. Bulls eye Curt! Guess I should try them eh?
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Post by Curt on Dec 18, 2007 21:17:20 GMT -7
Cool read, Thanks
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Post by wilhelm on Dec 19, 2007 2:31:25 GMT -7
I got my GT some days ago. I use a 1-12 cab with one Tone Tubby alnico. It´s a huge sound just from one speaker. I use this cab also with my MazJrNr head and it´s nice too. Some months ago a friend of mine compared a 4-12 Marshall cab with my 1-12 cab. The result was a shock. The 1-12 cab loaded with the Tone Tubby was the clear winner. I like the TT´s. Some months ago I had the chance to compare some speakers (Cel´s and Jensen´s and the TT). As I use the airbrake with the GT it´s no problem to damage the speaker. Benttop, PDW and the other GT users - thanks for your help in this forum. The GT is the amp I was looking for about 30 years. Hope this helps.
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Post by Curt on Dec 19, 2007 6:12:24 GMT -7
Interesting. I >>HAVE<< two Weber ceramic Blue Dogs in 50 Watt with light dope. Bulls eye Curt! Guess I should try them eh? I'm thinkin' yes ;D
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Post by hogridr on Dec 19, 2007 7:28:39 GMT -7
Welcome bsshiver, (I have not been here long myself). My favorite speaker, hands down is a set of Heritage G12m's. I like a Gold, and a combo with a V30 and G12H sounds good too. I actually need more break in time on the G12H, so there is room for tonal improvement there. But for now, Heritage G12m's all the way
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Post by mmillernc on Dec 19, 2007 7:57:56 GMT -7
welcome b. i am in Raleigh also!
thanks to everyone for the speaker suggestions. i am waiting on a minimass before i start thinking of changing speakers.
BTW, it might be helpful to mention the size and design (ported, CB, OB, ...) of cab people are using. imo the cab itself makes a pretty big diff, esp. in bass response.
good info so far.
mike
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Dec 19, 2007 8:56:06 GMT -7
welcome b. i am in Raleigh also! thanks to everyone for the speaker suggestions. i am waiting on a minimass before i start thinking of changing speakers. BTW, it might be helpful to mention the size and design (ported, CB, OB, ...) of cab people are using. imo the cab itself makes a pretty big diff, esp. in bass response. good info so far. mike You know, I had failed to consider this entirely. I've been using all open back cabs because generally I like them, but I'll bet you're right - the GT may well like a Z-Best better than anything else. I've been looking for an excuse to acquire one of those... Don, I know you have a GT and a Z-Best - what say ye?
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Post by hogridr on Dec 19, 2007 10:04:41 GMT -7
All of the ones I like are closed back, one is a 2x12 (Heritage g12m's) and the other is my 4x12 (Fender) I rewired and swapped two of the V30's with G12h's. I played it on one open back cab with two greenbacks, I did not like it as well. I just like the bottom end and response with this amp in a closed cab. I am def considering a Z-Best for this amp. I don't always want to hall my 4x12 around, but my RXES, GT and the 4x12 was a lot of fun... except for my neighbors :-) I am very interested in what Don has to say about the GT and Z-Best.
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Post by bsshiver on Dec 19, 2007 11:02:14 GMT -7
Thanks for the welcome guys!
Yeah, my Bogner cube is a 1x12, closed-back, ported cab. The particular scumback in there is a medium sized speaker (like a G12M) with a large dust cap and a 75hz bass response. In an open-back cab I don't think the bass on this speaker would be nearly as tight.
I'm actually considering buying an open-back Avatar 1x12 cab to go along with it so I can have some punchy bass *and* an open swirly sound thing going on.
It might be cool. If I do it I'll let you know how it turns out!
B~
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Post by dock66 on Dec 19, 2007 11:15:11 GMT -7
At the moment they'll have to be two favorites for me,can't decide between the two set-ups. 2x12 C-Golds Z cab and 2x12 Greenbacks Z cab.
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Post by southbay on Dec 29, 2007 18:14:39 GMT -7
For the record "Scumbacks" are relabeled Webers Uh, actually, for the record, they're not. ;D I'm not sure where, or who you got that info from, but it's incorrect. Just to be clear, the Scumbacks went through a lot of R&D that took almost 12 months between the H & M lines before Ted sent me prototypes to approve. The big problem was replicating the broken in tone of my original Pre Rola G12M and G12H30's, otherwise a whole bunch less time & effort would have been expended, and indeed, Ted almost bowed out of the project a couple of times because of my expectations and how much time it took to dial them in. That's also why they cost more, and sound better, though, so this is truly a case of "You get what you pay for." I encourage players to contact me regarding their tone needs, either via email or phone, because it's just easier to fine tune a player's tone needs if I hear it first hand, and because I have to assess what their tone they're seeking really is and how/if I have a solution for them. Believe it or not, I have recommended other speakers when I think there is a better choice. So in closing, tele62, who did you hear that from, so I can set them straight?
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Post by Curt on Dec 29, 2007 19:12:09 GMT -7
For the record "Scumbacks" are relabeled Webers Uh, actually, for the record, they're not. ;D I'm not sure where, or who you got that info from, but it's incorrect. Just to be clear, the Scumbacks went through a lot of R&D that took almost 12 months between the H & M lines before Ted sent me prototypes to approve. The big problem was replicating the broken in tone of my original Pre Rola G12M and G12H30's, otherwise a whole bunch less time & effort would have been expended, and indeed, Ted almost bowed out of the project a couple of times because of my expectations and how much time it took to dial them in. That's also why they cost more, and sound better, though, so this is truly a case of "You get what you pay for." I encourage players to contact me regarding their tone needs, either via email or phone, because it's just easier to fine tune a player's tone needs if I hear it first hand, and because I have to assess what their tone they're seeking really is and how/if I have a solution for them. Believe it or not, I have recommended other speakers when I think there is a better choice. So in closing, tele62, who did you hear that from, so I can set them straight? I digress; Scumbacks are Webers with Scumback labels and pricing that Jim spec'd as stated on the Scumback website via the link posted above by an apparent fan. Not sure how different that is or is not, seems to me that still classifies them as relabeled, albeit tweaked, Webers. Welcome to the Z Forum Jim, I'll take a guess that is whom I am answering here. Are you a Dr Z Amplifier admirer/owner/fanatic ? Curt
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Post by Bill on Dec 29, 2007 19:27:50 GMT -7
Welcome, Jim!...love your speakers. Some of the misinformation on the Scumback speakers could be the result of what I went through. I recently sold a Scumback on Ebay, only to be confronted by the buyer telling me I sold him a Weber speaker. When I disputed that, he said Jim @ Southbay himself, told him the speaker was indeed NOT a Scumback. So I sent an email to the person I bought the speaker from (who bought it new from Southbay) asking him to shed some light on the situation. His prompt & informative reply: "Hi Bill: I have been in contact with Jim. Yes this is a real Scumback. It was directly dropped shipped to my door from Ted Weber and still had Weber's sticker info on the speaker. Jim will be able to confirm and clarify this info. Weber is in Indiana and I am in the adjacent State of Ohio. It was going to be silly to send the speaker out to Jim in Calif and then send it back across the country to me. However, Jim did not label the speaker with his info. Thanks, XXX." In the end everyone was satisfied, ...although I was almost stuck taking a speaker back and refunding the buyer. Which would have left me in an unusual predicament of how to accurately describe this EXACT speaker. So, a case like the above could contribute to misunderstandings. Personally I completely understand the entire Scumback story, it is written on your website in great detail. Thanks for coming in and setting the record straight!
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Post by southbay on Dec 29, 2007 20:58:48 GMT -7
I digress; Scumbacks are Webers with Scumback labels and pricing that Jim spec'd as stated on the Scumback website via the link posted above by an apparent fan. Not sure how different that is or is not, seems to me that still classifies them as relabeled, albeit tweaked, Webers. Welcome to the Z Forum Jim, I'll take a guess that is whom I am answering here. Are you a Dr Z Amplifier admirer/owner/fanatic ? Curt Curt, yes it's Jim Seavall, the Satanic Speaker Salesman! LOL OK I need to correct this once again. Ted Weber/Weber VST makes my speakers. There is no Weber speaker equivalent of a Scumback, nor will there be. When I approached Ted with this almost 4 years ago, he was downsizing and had 133 speaker designs. He didn't want another speaker, and told me he'd rather not have them himself, he'd rather they be a Southbay exclusive for my amps. Ok, fine, now that I have that out of the way... no one, and I mean not Celestion (who I asked twice in five years), Eminence (who said they'd try but no guarantees) or my local reconer, OCSR, wanted to do any in depth testing, matching of tone, etc...except Ted Weber. Even he was daunted by the task, and it took him six months to get the H prototypes to me, and another five for the M's. So he didn't exactly find the right formula right off the bat. My speakers share the same frame size/magnet, that's true, and they are also the same size as the old Pre Rola Celestion frames...but that's where the similarity ends. They have different soft parts (cone, suspension, treatment, etc) and this is what makes up the tone. As for the comment of "they are tweaked Webers..." it's hard to qualify that as valid since Ted wasn't going to make this particular speaker. I had to ask for it. Just as Eminence makes some Fender models that are proprietary (such as the speakers Ted designed for the Eric Clapton amps, the low power Twin reissues) to Fender only, these are proprietary to my amp line. Since they're not like any others on the market, it's a little short-sighted to call them "tweaked Webers". Any custom design/voiced/labeled speaker stops being a tweaked Weber once it passes the five month in R&D timeframe, don't you think? I'm pretty sure Ted said he's never had to work that long or hard on a speaker before, or since. As for the price, it's spec'd based on what my cost is, a fair profit and no more. I'm certainly not getting these made as cheap as Celestion makes the Heritage models. Am I a Dr. Z fan/fanatic? I am not, but that doesn't mean I don't have clients that are. One of them is Jeff Jourard, who's using an H55 with his Route 66 amp, as well as a 2x12 with an H75/H75-LHDC mix. Jeff was the original guitarist for TP & the HB's, then went on to form "The Motels", so he's got a few notes under his belt, and an ear for tone, one would think. So, the Scumbacks aren't tweaked Webers. They're a completely designed from scratch (minus the frame/magnet) speaker that replicate the old G12M & G12H30 Pre Rola Celestion tone. Thanks for the welcome to the Z forum. Had I joined this forum earlier, I would have put this all to rest a long time ago, but for some reason I never joined, as I thought Ted took care of this when he joined awhile back. Now, who said my speakers were relabeled Webers? Or did you just decide to call them that?
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Post by Curt on Dec 29, 2007 22:53:47 GMT -7
Thanks again Jim,
As you can see by Madisons post above, there is a lot of funky info on the net, no suprise there right? I can not say for certain whom I recieved the Weber/Scumback connection information from. Watered down I'm sure from what you have clearly stated above and on your web site.
It is easy to see where "Built by Weber, Designed by Jim" can be bent around to Jim sells relabeled Webers" no?
Anyway, I have little experiance with your products and only went to your site when directed to do so above, I did and reposted that was an interesting read, never knocked your products and hear all positives on you and your products.
Perhaps you should check in here a bit more as there is no shortage of speaker swappin' tone hounds here, you may save some of us some trouble.
Best in the New Year to you, Curt
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Post by noitpure on Dec 30, 2007 5:57:07 GMT -7
Maybe if one is in question about a product we all should try contracting the source for info BEFORE posting misinformation on the web. Just a thought.
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Post by Curt on Dec 30, 2007 7:47:53 GMT -7
Misinformation?
Still don't see it.
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Post by southbay on Dec 30, 2007 10:53:33 GMT -7
Misinformation? Still don't see it. Well, let's see if I can put it all in one post for you, Curt. 1) For the record "Scumbacks" are relabeled Webers... 2) Scumbacks are Webers with Scumback labels and pricing that Jim spec'd as stated on the Scumback website via the link posted above by an apparent fan. 3) Not sure how different that is or is not, seems to me that still classifies them as relabeled, albeit tweaked, Webers. 4)I can not say for certain whom I recieved the Weber/Scumback connection information from. Watered down I'm sure from what you have clearly stated above and on your web site. It is easy to see where "Built by Weber, Designed by Jim" can be bent around to Jim sells relabeled Webers" no? The part that's missing, besides repeating info that you chose not to verify yourself, is CORRECTING your posts after finding out the facts. That's one thing, but it leads directly to this statement below: Maybe if one is in question about a product we all should try contracting the source for info BEFORE posting misinformation on the web. Just a thought. Your inaccurate posts stated as facts led me to join this forum to set the record straight. So it is misinformation until you correct the posts, actually. As for the Madison event, that was a fluke. One of my client's speakers developed a loose magnet, and was replaced. Someone at Weber took the standard H frame & magnet, put the Scumback parts in it and drop shipped it without putting on the SA12H55-8HP label to identify it. After I tracked down the sellers involved it was all straightened out. Sadly, I've had to enforce trademark copyright, cloning issues on Ebay as of Sept 2006, so that's led to policing eBay and now online forums, such as this one and others. I'm just here to set the record straight, which was predicated by your posts, whether you consider them to be misinformation or not, I do find them to contain erroneous information, and so did a potential buyer.
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Post by Don on Dec 30, 2007 14:59:54 GMT -7
You know, I had failed to consider this entirely. I've been using all open back cabs because generally I like them, but I'll bet you're right - the GT may well like a Z-Best better than anything else. I've been looking for an excuse to acquire one of those... Don, I know you have a GT and a Z-Best - what say ye?Hi Steve, I recently bought a ZBest. Mine is the standard 8 ohm with the V30 on top and the G12H30 on the bottom. Red of course. ;D I ran the GT through a new Z convertible with a Gold, the ZBest, a Johnson J212V, and a Marshall 1960A. The ZBest just blew me away with the GT. It was like Doc designed the GT to be mated with the ZBest cab. Unbelievable sound; wide, deep, warm, definition of each note in a chord; all at the same time. Now with my Stingray or RxJS, I go with the Z convertibles & Golds.
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