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Post by myles on Apr 18, 2012 13:29:47 GMT -7
Hi Myles! I’m looking for opinions on what tubes to use in order to upgrade my Maz 38 NR head’s preamp and rectifier section with NOS. I’m looking for maximum headroom, warmth, smooth top end and tight low end but I don’t want the natural clarity, definition or girth (for lack of a better word) of the Maz to be affected. Here is what I was recommended by a reputable NOS dealer: NOS Tesla ECC83 (Not JJ), NOS JAN Philips/Sylvania 5AR4 And another recommendation from a different reputable dealer: GZ34/5AR4- NOS Hitachi 5AR4 12AX7- NOS Ei or NOS JAN Sylvannia I realize some of their recommendations will vary based on what's in stock. Any thoughts on this recommendation? Agree/Disagree? Pros/Cons? I was also fooling around with the idea of using TAD EL84/6BQ5-STR instead of the EH EL84 for the power section. For about $25 more I can get the TAD. Thoughts? Suggestions? Pros/Cons? Also, I’m looking for a nice NOS GE, RCA or Sylvania tube that isn’t too expensive but that has the lowest noise/mircophonics possible to put into my Steel Guitar Black Box. Thoughts? Suggestions? I'm a complete novice on all this so thanks in advance for any help and advice!! Tubes are a matter of personal taste and preference. But ... here are a few tips.... 1. Turn your master volume all the way up. Always. Get it out of the circuit. Learn to play using your touch and the volume control on the guitar for dynamics. Use the volume, not the master, on the amp for level. 2. Use proper spec tubes from a reputable vendor. Weak tubes will yield poor tone and less headroom, articulation and definition. 3. Use an NOS rectifier as it will sag less and supply proper voltage. This is not the case with most current production rectifiers. For the most clean headroom and tightest response use a solid state plug in rectifier. These generate less heat and are also more reliable. Ei smooth plate 12AX7/ECC83 tubes sound lovely but are the most prone to physical microphonics. I like the JJ EL84S in a mid (spec) rating for output tubes. If your amp was my amp I would use some sort of USA medium plate 12AX7 such as RCA, GE or Sylvania as they cover a lot of scope and do not compress as easily as short plates if pedals or high output pickups are in the picture. My preferred vendors are: www.kcanostubes.comwww.dougstubes.comwww.tubedepot.comThere are other great vendors too but these are my personal favorites. |
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Post by mangoman on Apr 19, 2012 14:52:41 GMT -7
Hey Myles my Facebook buddy!
I have an RX Jr coming to my door in a couple days. Now knowing that this amp is very percussive, any suggestions on tubes (both power and preamp and Rect) to smooth it out a tiny bit, give a bit more clean headroom and tighten things up a bit?
I am really trying to go after some chimey AC type cleans, and still get that Marshally type crunchy growl. Nothing too over the top.
Thanks!
Todd
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Post by headshrinker (Marc) on Apr 22, 2012 20:23:57 GMT -7
Myles: When biasing up an amp, if the two tubes in it have the same voltage reading how big a mA difference can you have between the two tubes and still be good to go? I know they will likely never read exactly the same, but how big a difference is too much? Thanks for the help.
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Post by myles on Apr 25, 2012 18:16:19 GMT -7
Hey Myles my Facebook buddy! I have an RX Jr coming to my door in a couple days. Now knowing that this amp is very percussive, any suggestions on tubes (both power and preamp and Rect) to smooth it out a tiny bit, give a bit more clean headroom and tighten things up a bit? I am really trying to go after some chimey AC type cleans, and still get that Marshally type crunchy growl. Nothing too over the top. Thanks! Todd Todd, Sorry for the delayed reply. I am not getting email notifications when there is a new post here. It used to work. I just had a similar question elsewhere but in a nutshell, tubes are really personal preference but .... check with Mike at KCA and see what USA medium / long plates he has in stock. I love the RCA, Sylvania tubes a lot in V1. They are neutral and articulate. If he has any Raytheon 12AX7s those are my favorite. V1 is the heart of the Rx / Rx Jr. If your amp has the stock short plate JJ ECC83S you can expect less bump in the mids, smoother breakdown, more sensitive / articulate / defined. Less harsh. V2, the EF86 - lots of choices. The current EF806 Tung Sol branded tube is perhaps the best of the current EF86 types if you don't want to go the NOS route. If you do, the GEC and Mullards are my personal favorites but again, this is user taste and preference. V3, the phase inverter. If there is a short plate JJ ECC83S in there I'd get rid of it. Again, a medium/long plate with proper current drive is what I prefer in the PI position. I also prefer a matched tube or what some folks call balanced triodes. Mike at KCA, Doug Preston at Doug's Tubes, or the folks at Tube Depot are three folks that do a very nice job of matching. NOS is nice but a JJ 803S or Sovtek 12AX7LP/LPS work quite nicely and are cost effective. Cost should not be too much of a consideration as any of these USA tubes will last for decades so in the end they are much less expensive than current production. The fact that they sound better is an even bigger plus. Happy playing. |
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Post by myles on Apr 25, 2012 18:26:30 GMT -7
Myles: When biasing up an amp, if the two tubes in it have the same voltage reading how big a mA difference can you have between the two tubes and still be good to go? I know they will likely never read exactly the same, but how big a difference is too much? Thanks for the help. In the past, 20% was considered an industrial match. 10% was a good audio match. In an amp like a Fender tolex era amp using 6L6 tubes I like to see no more than a 3mA difference. Most of these amps are biased at around 30-36mA so we are looking at about 10% at the outside. Most of the vendors I prefer match their output tubes within 1mA or even closer. If you see a bigger difference when biasing you should check your amp for something amiss, perhaps one screen resistor not close in value to the other or something else. The above is for grid biased amps. Cathode biased amps are self adjusting and many folks think it does not matter much if matched tubes are used or not. Rather than repeat things I have written in many places let me just say that it is very important, perhaps even more so than in grid biased amps. You want output tubes within a given range as the bias resistor network expects a tube that acts properly to be there. |
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Post by Matt on Apr 27, 2012 12:08:46 GMT -7
Did I just make a very expensive ($$) mistake being a newbie to NOS tubes?
I purchased some NOS tubes and the tone is much cleaner (which I knew and wanted going in) but it seems my Maz 38 NR head has lost some of that girth and "umph" that made it so awesome. Seems a bit dull and lackluster now; not necessarily bad tone-wise, but it's lost that certain something.
Here is what I put in it:
V1, V2 - NOS JAN GE 7025 (Low Noise 12AX7)
V3 - NOS JAN GE 5751 (1980s)
Rectifier - NOS JAN Philips/Sylvania 5AR4
Any explanations why it lost so much girth and "umph" ?
Any recommendations to regain that magic it had?
(All the tubes were purchased from a very reputable and highly recommended dealer)
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Post by Eddie on Apr 27, 2012 12:42:57 GMT -7
Did I just make a very expensive ($$) mistake being a newbie to NOS tubes? I purchased some NOS tubes and the tone is much cleaner (which I knew and wanted going in) but it seems my Maz 38 NR head has lost some of that girth and "umph" that made it so awesome. Seems a bit dull and lackluster now; not necessarily bad tone-wise, but it's lost that certain something. Here is what I put in it: V1, V2 - NOS JAN GE 7025 (Low Noise 12AX7) V3 - NOS JAN GE 5751 (1980s) Rectifier - NOS JAN Philips/Sylvania 5AR4 Any explanations why it lost so much girth and "umph" ? Any recommendations to regain that magic it had? (All the tubes were purchased from a very reputable and highly recommended dealer) Maybe try putting your old V1 tube back in. Eddie |
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Post by Stan on Apr 28, 2012 20:02:44 GMT -7
i'm curious if anyone has run into this before if you have a 110v 60cyl Amp and now go to a place where the power is 230v 50cyl, you have to use a transformer to step the voltage down, so doing so, does this affect the operation and or tones of the amp, if so how? see i live where it's 230v 50cyl, so am i better off having a Z amp modified when made, or just step the power down all the time? does a Z running at 230 European power sound different than a US model? Read more: ztalk.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=strings&action=display&thread=49002#ixzz1tOWDRqZ6 |
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Post by myles on Apr 29, 2012 9:31:38 GMT -7
Did I just make a very expensive ($$) mistake being a newbie to NOS tubes? I purchased some NOS tubes and the tone is much cleaner (which I knew and wanted going in) but it seems my Maz 38 NR head has lost some of that girth and "umph" that made it so awesome. Seems a bit dull and lackluster now; not necessarily bad tone-wise, but it's lost that certain something. Here is what I put in it: V1, V2 - NOS JAN GE 7025 (Low Noise 12AX7) V3 - NOS JAN GE 5751 (1980s) Rectifier - NOS JAN Philips/Sylvania 5AR4 Any explanations why it lost so much girth and "umph" ? Any recommendations to regain that magic it had? (All the tubes were purchased from a very reputable and highly recommended dealer) I will assume, which is not safe since I do not know who supplied your tubes, that V1 and V2 meet proper spec and are not weak. If that is the case using a 5751 in V3, your phase inverter position, will clean up the amp and make it less aggressive. Hang onto the tube and use it when you want to change the character of the amp. You made no mistake, you just gave your amp more vocabulary and now have a more broad palette. You can also use that 5751 in V1 and the 12AX7 (which is the original design tube in V3, back in V3) for one more nice option. Happy playing. |
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Post by myles on Apr 29, 2012 9:37:41 GMT -7
i'm curious if anyone has run into this before if you have a 110v 60cyl Amp and now go to a place where the power is 230v 50cyl, you have to use a transformer to step the voltage down, so doing so, does this affect the operation and or tones of the amp, if so how? see i live where it's 230v 50cyl, so am i better off having a Z amp modified when made, or just step the power down all the time? does a Z running at 230 European power sound different than a US model? Read more: ztalk.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=strings&action=display&thread=49002#ixzz1tOWDRqZ6There will be a slight difference. If you live in a 230 volt country and play there you should consider having the amp rewired for 230v if it has a multi-tap power transformer or change the power transformer so you do not have to drag a step up transformer to any place you play. You also need to consider the rating on the step up transformer, the additional stuff in line with your power supply which you may want to remove. As a side note, Carl Verheyen ( www.carlverheyen.com ) uses the same model Dr. Z amp as the foundation of his multi amp rig here in the USA and in Europe. He has one amp is each location, each with a different power transformer, one for 120v and one of Europe voltages. Do the amps sound different? Probably. It is very rare that two amps sound the same even in the same venue. That is not something to consider. Not really any type of factor. If you are ordering a new amp buy one in Europe for your proper voltage. |
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Post by Matt on Apr 29, 2012 17:38:01 GMT -7
Did I just make a very expensive ($$) mistake being a newbie to NOS tubes? I purchased some NOS tubes and the tone is much cleaner (which I knew and wanted going in) but it seems my Maz 38 NR head has lost some of that girth and "umph" that made it so awesome. Seems a bit dull and lackluster now; not necessarily bad tone-wise, but it's lost that certain something. Here is what I put in it: V1, V2 - NOS JAN GE 7025 (Low Noise 12AX7) V3 - NOS JAN GE 5751 (1980s) Rectifier - NOS JAN Philips/Sylvania 5AR4 Any explanations why it lost so much girth and "umph" ? Any recommendations to regain that magic it had? (All the tubes were purchased from a very reputable and highly recommended dealer) I will assume, which is not safe since I do not know who supplied your tubes, that V1 and V2 meet proper spec and are not weak. If that is the case using a 5751 in V3, your phase inverter position, will clean up the amp and make it less aggressive. Hang onto the tube and use it when you want to change the character of the amp. You made no mistake, you just gave your amp more vocabulary and now have a more broad palette. You can also use that 5751 in V1 and the 12AX7 (which is the original design tube in V3, back in V3) for one more nice option. Happy playing. You're spot on, Myles, it is definitely a lot cleaner with the NOS than with the original tubes. On a whim, I tried going into the Hi input and that really seemed to help get back some of that aggression, girth and certain something it was lacking since the switch. I'm very happy with it now. Thanks for all the help! |
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Post by myles on Apr 29, 2012 19:02:45 GMT -7
You are quite welcome.
Happy playing!
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Post by Eddie on May 6, 2012 0:18:31 GMT -7
Myles,
I have a Raytheon 12AX7 JRP and I am curious what the "JRP" stands for.
Thanks,
Eddie
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Post by myles on May 6, 2012 9:54:33 GMT -7
Myles, I have a Raytheon 12AX7 JRP and I am curious what the "JRP" stands for. Thanks, Eddie JRP is the date code. I do not have the chart handy or recall the exact conversion but I believe this was in 1964. |
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Post by Stan on May 6, 2012 10:37:35 GMT -7
i'm curious if anyone has run into this before if you have a 110v 60cyl Amp and now go to a place where the power is 230v 50cyl, you have to use a transformer to step the voltage down, so doing so, does this affect the operation and or tones of the amp, if so how? see i live where it's 230v 50cyl, so am i better off having a Z amp modified when made, or just step the power down all the time? thank you myles for you time and answer, i'll have to consider new vs used then or do the swap myself  does a Z running at 230 European power sound different than a US model? Read more: ztalk.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=strings&action=display&thread=49002#ixzz1tOWDRqZ6There will be a slight difference. If you live in a 230 volt country and play there you should consider having the amp rewired for 230v if it has a multi-tap power transformer or change the power transformer so you do not have to drag a step up transformer to any place you play. You also need to consider the rating on the step up transformer, the additional stuff in line with your power supply which you may want to remove. As a side note, Carl Verheyen ( www.carlverheyen.com ) uses the same model Dr. Z amp as the foundation of his multi amp rig here in the USA and in Europe. He has one amp is each location, each with a different power transformer, one for 120v and one of Europe voltages. Do the amps sound different? Probably. It is very rare that two amps sound the same even in the same venue. That is not something to consider. Not really any type of factor. If you are ordering a new amp buy one in Europe for your proper voltage. thank you myles for your time and answer, i'll have to consider ordering new vs used then or do the swap myself cheers |
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Post by eggman on May 6, 2012 16:18:22 GMT -7
Howdy,
Myles: This question is related to your post/reply in the "tubes" section. Is it reasonable to assume that the old Silvertone 6V6s from my old Silvertone amp from the 60s are American made?
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Post by myles on May 8, 2012 17:20:36 GMT -7
Howdy, Myles: This question is related to your post/reply in the "tubes" section. Is it reasonable to assume that the old Silvertone 6V6s from my old Silvertone amp from the 60s are American made? That is a very safe assumption. The 6V6 was an American tube and used extensively in car radios and general electronics in that era. The Marconi, made in Italy was generally not seen here unless it was in some sort of device made in Italy and made for USA export. If by some chance you find a Marconi NOS tube here today snatch it up as it was a licensed by RCA copy of an RCA and a great tube. They used to be a bargain but since folks learned what they are they are not as much of a bargain but sometimes a nice value. |
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Post by fevzay on May 9, 2012 8:45:31 GMT -7
I've read your description of the Mazerati on your website, and was wondering if you consider it more akin to a Normal Channel AC30 or a Top Boost channel AC30?
I am familiar that the Z-Wreck is based on a Top Boost AC30, so I am curious of the differences.
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Post by myles on May 9, 2012 8:53:25 GMT -7
I've read your description of the Mazerati on your website, and was wondering if you consider it more akin to a Normal Channel AC30 or a Top Boost channel AC30? I am familiar that the Z-Wreck is based on a Top Boost AC30, so I am curious of the differences. I think the Mazerati is closer to the Normal channel of an AC30/6 than the Top Boost channel depending on how the controls are set on the TB channel of the AC30. |
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Post by fevzay on May 9, 2012 9:04:34 GMT -7
Thanks for your thoughts, Myles.
Ultimately, I'm saving for a new Z-Wreck but I knew you'd have good insight on the Mazerati.
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Post by randalp3000 on May 9, 2012 10:11:24 GMT -7
I've read your description of the Mazerati on your website, and was wondering if you consider it more akin to a Normal Channel AC30 or a Top Boost channel AC30? I am familiar that the Z-Wreck is based on a Top Boost AC30, so I am curious of the differences. I went through my V2 Mazerati and compared it to my Ghia and it is the exact same circuit with the exception of the added El84's and bigger transformers. The V2 has a completely different phase inverter, it appears to be fixed bias and is not a long tailed pair like a Vox. |
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Post by fevzay on May 9, 2012 11:02:47 GMT -7
Thanks Randalp3000. I've compared those circuits before as well. The Ghia also has a conjunctive filter that the Mazerati doesn't have.
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Post by randalp3000 on May 9, 2012 16:57:33 GMT -7
Thanks, I didn't have my notes handy and couldn't remember about the filter.
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Post by myles on May 10, 2012 16:33:10 GMT -7
I've read your description of the Mazerati on your website, and was wondering if you consider it more akin to a Normal Channel AC30 or a Top Boost channel AC30? I am familiar that the Z-Wreck is based on a Top Boost AC30, so I am curious of the differences. I went through my V2 Mazerati and compared it to my Ghia and it is the exact same circuit with the exception of the added El84's and bigger transformers. The V2 has a completely different phase inverter, it appears to be fixed bias and is not a long tailed pair like a Vox. The Carmen Ghia and Mazerati are not the same. Look at the feedback loop or lack of such as just one aspect. The transformers are not just bigger, the entire hysterisis curves are different. The output transformer construction is also very different. The Mazerati was much more than just adding another duet of output tubes. |
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2012 11:53:56 GMT -7
Myles, I'd like to build a 5 watt combo for a grab 'n go amp. Would you share some possible ideas for kits or circuits. A Champ like circuit would be fine.
Thanks ahead of time.
Any thoughts from other Z members would be highly appreciated as well. Phil? Benttop?
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Post by myles on May 13, 2012 9:43:22 GMT -7
I would not know where to begin. There are a ton of them. As far as a suggestion it would be hard to pick something specific. It would be like you asking me what you should have for lunch.
Champs are a wonderful amp in the 5 watt and under range. Go with the later 8" speaker not a 6". Narrow Panel tweed champ.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2012 12:11:25 GMT -7
The reason I ask is I'm not sure which kits would have the quality type of parts that would hold up to regular use without developing issues early on. I know Mojo Musical supply offers kits and Hoffman Amps offers kits. I was curious what your opinion might be or if you might even have a suggestion for who has a quality champ type kit. I'm sure if I asked you about something good for lunch you would have several excellent suggestions. You post a lot of interesting lunch shots on facebook. I love those by the way. Thanks for the help. |
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Post by greenblues58 on May 13, 2012 15:42:18 GMT -7
[a href="  "] [/a] this is a shot of the internals of my completely modded handwired valve junior which I believe is based on a champ type circuit. It looks relatively simple,not something I would attempt myself,is extremely loud for 5 watts (1x 5751 1xEL84)nice breakup and very Fendery at cleanish settings but goes very voxy at high levels. |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2012 16:03:47 GMT -7
Nice porn there greenblues.
Very clean. Who sells these kits?
Myles, I'm not trying to be a pest. My apologies if I am coming across that way.
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Post by greenblues58 on May 14, 2012 3:30:34 GMT -7
this wasn,t a kit though the guy that built it for me was looking at selling drop in circuit board upgrades for all the small chinese made 5 watt amps out there.
The only original parts left on this are the transformers(I did not think the extra cost of upgraded transformers was necessary for what I wanted) everything else is replaced and rewired as you can tell from the gauge of the wiring in there.
There are lots of self build kits available but I am only familiar with the UK based ones so can,t comment on the US ones.
What I was trying to suggest is for the cost of a S/H V JR head or combo there are a lot of options for upgrades and drop in boards available for champ/vox or marshall type circuits at little cost that transform these little amps and might be easier than building from scratch.
The rebuild on mine was £125 by Voyceelectronics.com.
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