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Post by gattsyac on Dec 7, 2023 10:10:23 GMT -7
Hello everybody!!
In all my time as a guitarist, I have always neglected Fender amplifiers. But recently, I've been chasing a specific type of tone. Articulated, muscular, punchy, with a lot of attack and a vintage flavor. I think the best example of this that I have in my head is in the song Cynical by Extreme:
What I discovered is that in this song the equipment used is: a rat, a Fender Vibroverb Browface Reissue from the 90s and a cabinet with Greenbacks.
I already have a 1x12 Celestion EVH (Greenback Heritage G12M) and a Wampler Ratsbane. Now, I'm looking for an amplifier and while researching I discovered the Headstrong Verbrovibe, the Suhr Hombre and I also ended up discovering the Dr. Z amplifiers.
I don't need tremolo or reverb, and I was very interested in the whole concept of the Dr. Z amplifiers. Could any of the Z amplifiers suit me?
Thank you for your attention!
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Post by Mark (Basement Enthusiast) on Dec 7, 2023 11:36:35 GMT -7
If you would want Reverb, I would consider the Z-Lux--which is a full-featured amp and can really cover a LOT of territory.
If you don't need reverb, I'd also consider the Z-28 MkII, which has a simpler interface/knobs and probably covers less territory but definitely right up the alley of what you've described.
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Post by texaspicker11 on Dec 7, 2023 11:44:25 GMT -7
Might try a Jetta. Maybe not Fendery but I think it would suit you well.
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Post by RickJames on Dec 7, 2023 12:16:57 GMT -7
I second the Jetta! and welcome to the Forum, Gattsyac
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Post by tumeniamps (Tom) on Dec 7, 2023 15:47:49 GMT -7
A Jetta or a Nova would be my top 2 recommendations.
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Post by nick0 on Dec 7, 2023 18:34:46 GMT -7
Cure for sure! They are all great tho.
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Post by pcns on Dec 7, 2023 20:36:02 GMT -7
I think all of the suggestions are good ones. I was thinking Cure or Z28 myself Todd
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Post by scottyc13 on Dec 8, 2023 5:17:18 GMT -7
The Brownface Fender amps had a bit less clean headroom than the blackface. Another choice might be the Z-Wreck or Z-Wreck Jr. I played a Jr yesterday and it had a Brownface vibe to it even with the Greenback. I didn’t have a chance to try the Cure they had. I think the Z28 would be too clean for the Brownface sound. The amp in my avatar is brownface style and the Z-Wreck Jr was very close.
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Post by Don A on Dec 8, 2023 8:14:38 GMT -7
For dirtier Fender style tones, I have a Cure, a tweed Deluxe clone, and a Cutthroat Audio Down Brownie (Fender brown Deluxe clone).
Out of those amps, I'd lean towards the Cure for this sound. The Cure has a very similar vibe to the Down Brownie- I can almost use them interchangeably, but the Cure has tighter bass that holds together much better with natural overdrive and distortion as well as with pedals.
The Cure is a really cool amp- it can cop the vibe of tweed, brown (add a Strymon Flint in the loop for bias tremolo), and black Deluxes (add a Strymon Flint in the loop for photocell tremolo and spring reverb) without being a copy of them- while doing its own thing.
A brown Vibroverb is a very different amp than the brown Deluxe, it has more in common with later black face Fender amps. I haven't played one, but judging by what I've read and listened to, I think the Z-Lux would take you all the way there.
I also have a Z Wreck Jr, and it's an awesome amp, but a completely different vibe, in my opinion.
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Post by adam on Dec 8, 2023 17:13:36 GMT -7
With a strat and a CAZ45, I think you could get pretty close.
Problem #1 is Nuno pretty much sounds like Nuno no matter what he plays through. That thing he does with the rat pedal to increase the aggression on the attack of the note might be the smallest part of what makes him sound like him. I think anyway.
Beyond that, maybe just look at the player is using. Like say you got a brownface vibroverb, cranked the snot out of it, added a pedal, had the right guitar, you still aren't really going to get there. But just assume that amp is cranked louder than you could ever really use it at. And then even if you had the exact same gear, it's not going to sound just like that anyway because of how it's mic'd or whatever. With a CAZ you could get really close and volume wouldn't be a problem. That's my best advice.
Your post reminds me of another one recently where someone named some reference tones and wanted to know which Z amp would do that at bedroom volumes. One of the references was Metallica, and all I could think was "it's not going to happen". Like if you really wanted that "sound", do what they do which is run a blend of 3 100 watt amps set to stun, put 2 mics on each cab, and then blend them in post to find the sound. Not trying to be dismissive in any way, just throwing out some thoughts.
Might also add that I loved the extreme song and Nuno playing, and thanks for sharing that.
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Post by gattsyac on Dec 9, 2023 14:42:39 GMT -7
With a strat and a CAZ45, I think you could get pretty close. Problem #1 is Nuno pretty much sounds like Nuno no matter what he plays through. That thing he does with the rat pedal to increase the aggression on the attack of the note might be the smallest part of what makes him sound like him. I think anyway. Beyond that, maybe just look at the player is using. Like say you got a brownface vibroverb, cranked the snot out of it, added a pedal, had the right guitar, you still aren't really going to get there. But just assume that amp is cranked louder than you could ever really use it at. And then even if you had the exact same gear, it's not going to sound just like that anyway because of how it's mic'd or whatever. With a CAZ you could get really close and volume wouldn't be a problem. That's my best advice. Your post reminds me of another one recently where someone named some reference tones and wanted to know which Z amp would do that at bedroom volumes. One of the references was Metallica, and all I could think was "it's not going to happen". Like if you really wanted that "sound", do what they do which is run a blend of 3 100 watt amps set to stun, put 2 mics on each cab, and then blend them in post to find the sound. Not trying to be dismissive in any way, just throwing out some thoughts. Might also add that I loved the extreme song and Nuno playing, and thanks for sharing that. Thank you all for you time, words, suggestions and great insights! Seems like I will be doing a deeper dive in the Z Amps! The candidates are: CAZ-45, Z Wreck, Z Wreck Jr., Nova, Jetta, Z-Lux, Cure, and Z-28 Mk. II. Seems like the Z-28 is least recommended and that's exactly the one that brought me here.
Very wise words adam! Nuno himself played through entire EVH gear, expecting to sound like Eddie and was disappointed because sounded like Nuno. Just to clarify, I'm not expecting to sound like him, just want the flavor of a Fender Vibroverb Brownface, but in my experience with amplifiers, I know how the issue of articulation and the emphasis on the low midrange for muscular riffs is something more specific. I have already sold some amplifiers because they did not meet my demands. I have a Soldano 50w and I can get close... but the vintage flavor is always missing.
Additionally, this amp I'm looking for will be for studio work only.
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Post by nick0 on Dec 10, 2023 16:23:49 GMT -7
Your post reminds me of another one recently where someone named some reference tones and wanted to know which Z amp would do that at bedroom volumes. One of the references was Metallica, and all I could think was "it's not going to happen". Like if you really wanted that "sound", do what they do which is run a blend of 3 100 watt amps set to stun, put 2 mics on each cab, and then blend them in post to find the sound. Not trying to be dismissive in any way, just throwing out some thoughts. These are great points. Not to mention they layered many tracks of Hetfield playing the same rhythm parts to beef up the sound. That being said, I can take a wampler ratsbane (just as an example) into a cure or Z28mkII or Jetta, grab an ibenez or lp, and riff some Master of puppets. It won't be exact (especially my playing) but it'll be a good tone that's close enough to enjoy at home and/or pass off live in my opinion.
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Post by gattsyac on Dec 28, 2023 22:49:20 GMT -7
Hi all!!
After diving deep in all your sugestions, researching, listening samples, YouTube videos, etc., I made some decision, but there are still some doubts.
adam, the CAZ45 really is outstanding, but I found the tone too modern for what I'm looking for... As I said, I have a Soldano 50w that covers the modern side of things. By the way, your playing is phenomenal!!
Well, one that I really liked was the Cure amp. Maybe in a near future. But the one that I choose is the Z-28 Mk. II, that's the one that resonated with me the most, for the simplicity, tone, and from what everything indicates, it's the Z amp that is somewhat referencing the brownface era.
Now, the doubts. I don't know if it's better to ask here or in the Z-28 section of the forum. If it is something better to post there, please tell me.
I'm really torn between the combo version or the head. The combo has all the charm of it's design that everyone already knows (unique, red, 3d sound, etc.). But i'm worried about being a open cabinet, and I can't get the tone I'm looking for. So the question is: Has anyone compared the open cabinet combo version of the Z-28 Mk. II with a closed cabinet with the same speakers (Creamback G12M-65)? If so, how is the bass (punch and articulation) in a mid-gain setting with a pedal acting as a dirty boost? I will be using a Rat, Sd-1, TS808, etc... I'm not interested in high gain, and portability and weight are not relevant. This will be mainly a home studio amp, to play alone, compose and record music.
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Dec 29, 2023 20:53:06 GMT -7
I've got two Z28 MKII amps. One production and one prototype. They're both combos. The proto has a Cream Alnico and the production one has a Creamback 65. I've plugged in other cabs and tried a variety of speakers, and in my opinion the Combo cab has a special magical 3D quality that isn't matched by other open back or closed back cabs. It has a room filling chime that is unique and to me is a big part of the amplifer's greatness.
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Post by John on Dec 30, 2023 14:40:37 GMT -7
I'm late to the game, but my vote is for the Cure. Big bottle power tubes, so no el84 crang. Preamp is cathode follower. (Think tweed or 4 input Marshall) If you're doing studio work, then you don't need tons of volume. And I've heard the master volume is REALLY good...which could be helpful in the studio.
I've had a MkI Z-28, and I don't hear that tone in the video. To me it didn't sound like Fender, it had it's own thing going.
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