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Post by borgen on Jul 5, 2022 2:03:05 GMT -7
Yesterday I had the opportunity to play a Sampson era Matchless SC30 from 1992. I brought my Z Wreck Jr. head with my Dr Z. 1x12 cab loaded with a Greenback, just to see how it would stack up against a sort of legendary amp. I plugged in my Tele to the EF86 side of the SC30, and it was just magical. No harshness whatsoever in the top, just this really fantastic sparkle. The mids were really in your face and growly, just the sort of "holy grail" tone that people talk about whenever Sampson era Matchless are discussed.
I then plugged in to my Z Wreck Jr. into my Dr Z. cab, and suddenly everything felt a bit stiffer and harsher. You could hear that it has great qualities, but I very much preferred the sound of the SC30. BUT: We then plugged the Z Wreck Jr. into the Matchless combo speaker, and wow... now the amp really came to life. Smooth and crisp overdrive while still being dynamic and maintaining your pick attack. For the first time I didn't need to keep the Cut knob at 9 o'clock in order to not sound harsh, we could bring it up to 12 o'clock and it was still a really fantastic sweet sound.
The owner of the SC30 owns and has played several legendary amps throughout his days, for example we also played his Soldano SLO-100 from the 80's and a Naylor Superdrive 60. When he played the Z Wreck Jr. he told me that he could easily sell all of his amps and just use the Z Wreck Jr., that's how amazing it sounded and how versatile it was (from chimey cleans to punchy hi-gain). We tried it as well through an older Matchless 2x12 cab with the mismatched speakers, and it was heavenly.
So the thing I learned was how much of a difference the cab and speaker really does. Now I'm not saying the Dr Z. 1x12 cab is a bad cab, it's just that it is still a pretty new cab with a speaker that hasn't been broken in yet. I'm really excited to see what happens once the speaker has been broken in.
A question for anyone who has a broken in speaker in their Z Wreck Jr.: What was the difference in sound between when the speaker was broken in and not broken in? How much playing did it need in order to break in?
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Post by pcns on Jul 5, 2022 7:13:38 GMT -7
How many hours do you have on your Speaker? A good 40 hours is what I have read. I have only had one speaker "open up" while I was playing that I suddenly noticed the speaker soften up and sound different right before my eyes. Most of the time it's an incremental change.
Top end harshness lessens and the speaker feels warmer typically.
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Post by borgen on Jul 5, 2022 10:20:35 GMT -7
How many hours do you have on your Speaker? A good 40 hours is what I have read. I have only had one speaker "open up" while I was playing that I suddenly noticed the speaker soften up and sound different right before my eyes. Most of the time it's an incremental change. Top end harshness lessens and the speaker feels warmer typically. Depends on how much volume is needed in order for it to work towards that. I've only played it perhaps 15-20 hours at the amount of volume needed to keep up with a drummer, but probably the same amount at bedroom volume. Sounds cool to have been able to hear it happen one time right in front of you!
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Post by John on Jul 7, 2022 4:22:04 GMT -7
It's been my experience that speaker break-in can be a big thing. When new, the speaker cone is stiff and can't move back and forth as it should. This really lowers the bass response. So you're left with mids and treble. This can make the speaker sound harsh. Once it's broken in, and the cone can move freely, it's more balanced because the bass response is where it should be.
Perhaps you can try something similar to what I did years ago:
I bought a new V30..and I thought it sounded like crap. Very nasal and harsh. I couldn't stand it and I put it on a shelf for a few years. Then I heard about breaking in speakers...especially V30's. So I wrapped the speaker in a sleeping bag (no speaker cabinet) and hooked it up to my PA head. I ran bass/drum loops through it for 40 hours. I started out a bit low, but by the time I finished, the cone was moving back and forth almost a whole inch! Literally beating the crap out of it. (What have I got to loose? I didn't care if I fried the speaker)
I put the speaker back in a cabinet and it was fantastic!!! It sounded balanced because it finally had enough bass response to match the mids and highs.
So I recommend either playing the Wreck Jr loud, or try hooking the speaker up to another sound source and play bass heavy music through it. Though I'd be careful as a greenback is rated at only 25 watts.
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Post by jhen86 (jordan) on Jul 7, 2022 5:41:56 GMT -7
I’m a fan and believer of speaker break in. But I would caution you to be careful. Unlike John, I do give a crap if I fry my speakers I kid, John. I’m sure you do too. And I share your lack of love for a bad V30. Yuck. But seriously....speaker break in is for sure a thing and there’s lots of good resources out there. You can use plain old music, or a variac, or you can pay big money for audio files that other people sell that they developed specifically to excite the cone at all frequencies. I’ve done it all. I don’t know that one option is best but find one that works for you. Scumback Speakers has some helpful specs and guidelines if you use a variac. I have tried the variac but I typically use a little solid state Fender amp so I’m not burning tubes. It has a headphone in jack so I can play anything from my computer or I can load files to an SD card and pump them through. The good news is that it’s only 15 watts too so concerns of damaging speakers are low.
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Post by cooluke on Jul 8, 2022 10:35:53 GMT -7
I seem to recall those speakers have little doping. Something Matchless wanted. Maybe I'm wrong.
My Jr has way over 50 hours at a cleanish stage volume with a Tele (10 o'clock master wide open). The 1st 10 hours where rough! You could hear the potential, but it was not quite there. Like the other posters, I agree speaker break-in is a thing. The speaker is a big part of the Wreck Jr. sound IMHO. The fact that the Jr sounded "better" with those 30+ year old speakers should be a good indicator.
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Post by jhen86 (jordan) on Jul 8, 2022 11:41:50 GMT -7
I seem to recall those speakers have little doping. Something Matchless wanted. Maybe I'm wrong. That sounds right by my recollection. Although, its been a while since I have studied it myself as well. I recall it being a tweaked V30 with little or possibly NO doping.
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Post by Chilly Gibbons (Todd T.) on Jul 8, 2022 16:37:40 GMT -7
Heavy doping is something I generally stay away from. Sometimes I’ll use some acetone to thin it out a bit, like on a V30. I can see where it would be useful for a 100% full volume metal assault, but not so much for anything less. It takes forever to loosen them up otherwise.
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Post by borgen on Jul 15, 2022 11:37:22 GMT -7
I'm planning to go to my rehearsal space tomorrow and set up a loop to a solid state amp and then run it for a day or two through the speaker, hope that will get it to loosen up a bit. Just need to check that the impedance match and that the wattage is not too high.
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Post by cooluke on Aug 2, 2022 5:33:54 GMT -7
I'm planning to go to my rehearsal space tomorrow and set up a loop to a solid state amp and then run it for a day or two through the speaker, hope that will get it to loosen up a bit. Just need to check that the impedance match and that the wattage is not too high. So what did you find?
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Post by Seńor Verde on Aug 2, 2022 6:41:07 GMT -7
What speaker does the Matchless have in it?
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Post by borgen on Aug 4, 2022 2:43:44 GMT -7
I'm planning to go to my rehearsal space tomorrow and set up a loop to a solid state amp and then run it for a day or two through the speaker, hope that will get it to loosen up a bit. Just need to check that the impedance match and that the wattage is not too high. So what did you find? I found that unfortunately none of my solid state amps had 8 ohms output, so I started looking around for a cheap solid state power amp. Found a Mooer Baby Bomb 30 quite cheap, which I picked up a couple of days ago. I haven't had time to go to my rehearsal space yet, so I'll update here once I've done that. I also bought a Celestion G12H Heritage 55Hz 30W speaker to be able to compare to the stock Greenback, so my plan is to break them both in and see what results I get.
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Post by borgen on Aug 4, 2022 2:44:06 GMT -7
What speaker does the Matchless have in it? It had the Matchless modified Celestion G12H30.
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Post by cooluke on Aug 4, 2022 8:05:50 GMT -7
What speaker does the Matchless have in it? It had the Matchless modified Celestion G12H30. Pretty sure thats the speaker in my Swart AST Pro. I have had the Jr Wreck a while and have yet to try it out.... That speaker has got a million hours on it too! I do plan to try both amps together very soon. I like to keep my Jr Combo "cleanish" and outdoors I tend to run it around 10-11 o'clock and the master is always wide open. With my Tele's is just the right amount of clean/dirt. The Swart is a bit low mid heavy and stays clean pretty loud. I did the speaker break-in thing with some Blues I had. Can't remember what I used, but I put some blankets over the amp for a few days.
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Post by Seńor Verde on Aug 4, 2022 8:12:41 GMT -7
Curious to hear how the G12H sounds with the amp vs the Matchless speaker.
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Post by borgen on Aug 10, 2022 11:30:13 GMT -7
Curious to hear how the G12H sounds with the amp vs the Matchless speaker. I'm at my rehearsal space right now trying out the G12H Heritage for the first time, and it's definitely a step in the right direction for me. The speaker is of course a bit stiff right now, as it is brand new, but I can hear some overall character differences:
The top end feels a bit smoother in the Heritage speaker compared to the stock Greenback, without losing important qualities like pick attack. This difference is really subtle though as of right now. The Heritage speaker also doesn't have the "wooden" sound in the mids that I feel is quite pronounced in the stock Greenback. This "wooden" quality was something I wasn't a fan of, so I'm really happy to not have it anymore.
The bottom end feels a bit tighter in the Heritage than the stock Greenback. However, I generally don't play a lot of chunky rhythm stuff and I usually roll back the bass knob on my Z Wreck Jr. to about 9 o'clock, so that's not that big of a deal for me. Nice to know it's there though.
It's a shame that Celestion have discontinued the G12H Heritage, but I was lucky to find a store in the UK that could ship it to Sweden. Now I've set up a loop in my HX Stomp, added a preamp after the looper in the HX Stomp, and i run that into the Mooer Baby Bomb 30 which is at about 2 o'clock (definitely loud though!). II'm going to let it run for a couple of days and then come back and see if I can notice any differences. But I am already pleased with the sound of the Heritage, so if it can loosen up a bit it will just be an added bonus.
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