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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Jul 4, 2022 7:29:04 GMT -7
I love my Firebird but it's always been a little sensitive to get it in tune so that cowboy chords like G and C (and barred F) will intonate properly, so I'm considering trying a compensated nut for it.
Do you guys have any experience with them? I've never seen or played a guitar with one but it makes sense that it could help those low strings from going sharp on the first two or three frets.
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Post by adam on Jul 4, 2022 13:05:18 GMT -7
I had an Earvana nut installed on a Gibson Nighthawk guitar a long time ago, probably over 20 years ago. I'd say it helped a little. I didn't keep the guitar too long though. One part of me wants to say "how many pros use them". If they were that good, everyone would use them.
Maybe try a couple other things first. First off, I think Gibsons in general intonate a little better with very little relief in the neck and lower action. Second, try tuning the D string to a tuner, then try intonation the G string to it by ear by checking the open D against the 2nd, 7th, 14th, and 19th frets on the G string. You might find that you get say 2,7, and 14 good, but 19 is sharp or flat. So compensate for that, then check the other ones. Sometimes the other ones sound find even after that last tweak. For me on one guitar in particular, I can get them all sounding pretty good except 14 is flat. Anyway, then check with a tune the open string and the fretted strings. It's just something to try, and I feel it works a lot better than just the 12th fret harmonic against the fretted 12th fret.
If that doesn't work, and say fret 2 is always sharp, the nut is probably too high. Then maybe take it to a tech, or get some nut files and mess with it and the worst that can happen is you need a new nut, so then maybe try a compensated nut.
Lastly, remember stuff is just out of tune anyway, like a b string needs to be tuned down a lot to sound right against the open G (major 3rd). I can't remember, but it's a lot like 13 to 17 cents or something. There are charts of that somewhere, but I think the only intervals that are really in tune are 5th and octave, and if I remember right, even the 4th is off even though that seems to make no sense.
Back to the cowboy chords, avoid playing the open B on say a G chord, or the G# on an E major. All of the above are just thoughts.
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Post by Don A on Jul 4, 2022 18:20:41 GMT -7
My Music Man Cutlass RS HSS has a compensated nut. I'm not sure if I hear a difference. I usually don't have an issue with a regular nut. I also had an Epi Elite ES-335 that someone had put a Buzz Feiten nut on. Again, I was not sure if I heard a difference.
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Jul 5, 2022 2:28:58 GMT -7
I had an Earvana nut installed on a Gibson Nighthawk guitar a long time ago, probably over 20 years ago. I'd say it helped a little. I didn't keep the guitar too long though. One part of me wants to say "how many pros use them". If they were that good, everyone would use them. Maybe try a couple other things first. First off, I think Gibsons in general intonate a little better with very little relief in the neck and lower action. Second, try tuning the D string to a tuner, then try intonation the G string to it by ear by checking the open D against the 2nd, 7th, 14th, and 19th frets on the G string. You might find that you get say 2,7, and 14 good, but 19 is sharp or flat. So compensate for that, then check the other ones. Sometimes the other ones sound find even after that last tweak. For me on one guitar in particular, I can get them all sounding pretty good except 14 is flat. Anyway, then check with a tune the open string and the fretted strings. It's just something to try, and I feel it works a lot better than just the 12th fret harmonic against the fretted 12th fret. If that doesn't work, and say fret 2 is always sharp, the nut is probably too high. Then maybe take it to a tech, or get some nut files and mess with it and the worst that can happen is you need a new nut, so then maybe try a compensated nut. Lastly, remember stuff is just out of tune anyway, like a b string needs to be tuned down a lot to sound right against the open G (major 3rd). I can't remember, but it's a lot like 13 to 17 cents or something. There are charts of that somewhere, but I think the only intervals that are really in tune are 5th and octave, and if I remember right, even the 4th is off even though that seems to make no sense. Back to the cowboy chords, avoid playing the open B on say a G chord, or the G# on an E major. All of the above are just thoughts. Thanks, Adam. I was thinking the same thing about pros not using them when I posted this question. But they make sense and I may try one now that I'm into it this far. The Firebird likes high string action to prevent any fret buzz, and with that comes intonation issues.
A couple of years ago I got a set of nut files and did a little filing on the nut. I went about one stroke too far (great name for a band!) and the A string started rattling. So over the weekend I ordered a new Graph Tech tusq nut for it, and removed the old one. I temporarily spaced the old one with a couple of thin slices of paper, which brought it back to a good height.
This Firebird is really sensitive to relief adjustments. I've got about .003" to .004" right now which is it's happy zone. My Peterson AutoStrobe 490 bench tuner is terrific, but it has led me down a rabbit hole in regards to relative pitch. The 5th power chords drive me nuts if they're out, so thanks for the info about the G and D strings. I usually tune the A and E strings a little low to compensate.
Supposedly the 2017 Firebird T models were Plek'd. But it's really hard to get good action without some string rattles, and I came to just accept the rattling. Saturday I went over the neck carefully and there are no high or low frets, the neck is straight; everything looks like it should be perfect, but it won't cooperate like my other Gibsons do. I've done my own setups for decades and this guitar is the most persnickety, uncooperative one I've ever had.
It's a keepsake guitar that my late wife bought me for my 65th B-day, and it's got great tone. I just need to get the setup balanced right. I'm glad I'm retired, since I can now spend endless hours chasing rabbits down various holes.
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Post by adam on Jul 5, 2022 5:09:31 GMT -7
Way better a rabbit hole than the plumbing project gone wrong.
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Post by Mark (Basement Enthusiast) on Jul 5, 2022 6:17:09 GMT -7
I can totally see Joe Walsh titling his next solo album, "Compensated Nut." Don't ask why; it just seems like something JW would do.
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Post by tgpbeatnik on Jul 5, 2022 8:06:52 GMT -7
I have compensated nuts on 3 of my instruments and I love them. You can play chords, triads, or double stops way up the neck and they are in tune. It is so nice.
I have 2 earvanas and one music man with a compensated nut. My buddy who has built 2 instruments for me now puts them on all of his instruments. We love em.
If you’re going to do the work make the work workZ
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Post by nmz on Jul 5, 2022 9:05:13 GMT -7
Had a earvana on a Strat a long time ago. No complaints, seemed to keep everything rock solid. Tech installed it for free and never seemed to need to take it off.
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Post by zpilot on Jul 6, 2022 4:21:07 GMT -7
I bought a Fender-style Warmoth neck a few years ago and decided to pull out all the stops. Roasted maple, SS frets, so while I was at it I opted for them to install their Earvana nut. Yes it does play in tune better on some things. You still have to make compromises though. Always will on a guitar with straight frets. It is just the nature of the beast. I don't regret getting the Earvana but I would not retrofit one on a guitar that I already had.
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