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Post by swampcooler on May 7, 2022 15:45:36 GMT -7
Howdy,
Just curious how people use their Z 1x12 cabs, open back or closed? I'm enjoying mine open with a Creamback.
What do you prefer?
Thanks,
Swampcooler
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Post by Mark (Basement Enthusiast) on May 7, 2022 16:21:01 GMT -7
I don't have one right now, but when I did, I had only used it in open-back configuration. But that was with an AlNiCo G12 Gold (and before that, an AlNiCo Tone Tubby Red) and with those speakers I was always thinking "open back."
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on May 8, 2022 2:04:45 GMT -7
I like my cabs open back unless it's something that requires the thump of a closed back. There's a more open, 3D sound to an open back cab, and I can hear it better.
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Post by adam on May 8, 2022 4:44:35 GMT -7
I have 3 of those cabs and mess around with them a lot. All are open right now, greenback, cream back, gold. I think a lot of it depends on where the cab is in the room, and your relationship to the listening position. For my room, it just kind of feels like there is more low end in with the cabs open, and maybe some phase cancellation with them closed. Sometimes, particularly with a v30 closed, if you can get a ways in front of the cab, say 15', that can be a great sound. Kind of more focused and detailed, and I think that makes some sense. Those observations are with the cabs about 1/3 of the way into the room length wise, and say 12' of space behind the cab. If the cabs were on a wall, you might find you like closed back better. Bottom line, I think a lot of it depends on your listening environment.
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on May 8, 2022 5:01:37 GMT -7
Not to hijack, but have any of you ever tried micing an open back cab from the rear? I'm just thinking out loud here, but it might be cool to try. It might have phasing problems but if the mic was positioned just right it might be very cool. Could you capture some of the airiness of an open back cab that way? There might be phase and/or comb filtering issues galore but what about mixing a front with a rear mic?
I imagine that it has been tried and discarded, but I've never tried it myself. Might just try that later today...
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Post by Seńor Verde on May 8, 2022 8:44:38 GMT -7
For my room, it just kind of feels like there is more low end in with the cabs open, and maybe some phase cancellation with them closed. I agree with this. I hadn't used a closed back cabinet in decades but a few months ago wanted to try my Z28 with Z 1x12 closed back because of the room and location in the room the band sets up. I tried it at home first and thought it sounded weird. Less lows and the frequencies sounded different. I'm guessing that if I had always used closed back and tried open that would have sounded weird, just because it's what I would have been used to.
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Post by wraparound (Steve) on May 8, 2022 17:46:51 GMT -7
For me I usually use it closed back with the SRZ-65. It’s loaded with a cast frame eminence with EV parts. Throw anything you want at it and great tone comes out.
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Post by simpleton on May 8, 2022 18:23:00 GMT -7
I was always open back, but I also think the room and style of music might have changed my preference. It’s sure a nice cab.
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Post by "Z" Steve on May 8, 2022 20:50:58 GMT -7
Not to hijack, but have any of you ever tried micing an open back cab from the rear? I'm just thinking out loud here, but it might be cool to try. It might have phasing problems but if the mic was positioned just right it might be very cool. Could you capture some of the airiness of an open back cab that way? There might be phase and/or comb filtering issues galore but what about mixing a front with a rear mic?
I imagine that it has been tried and discarded, but I've never tried it myself. Might just try that later today... I watched a video of John Jorgensen when he was doing the Hellecaster gig, and he spoke of micing the front and back of his Matchless combo's. It may be overkill but he liked what it added to the overall sound. And, I agree with Adam re the V30 in a closed back cab - all others open back.
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Post by zpilot on May 8, 2022 21:26:44 GMT -7
The only time I like closed back cabs is when playing a stage where there is a large open space behind the cab and nothing to reflect the sound off of. I don't play anything like that much anymore. Accurate monitors help but I still like the way the sound bounces off a wall and combines with the direct sound.
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Post by adam on May 9, 2022 6:06:39 GMT -7
Not to hijack, but have any of you ever tried micing an open back cab from the rear? I'm just thinking out loud here, but it might be cool to try. It might have phasing problems but if the mic was positioned just right it might be very cool. Could you capture some of the airiness of an open back cab that way? There might be phase and/or comb filtering issues galore but what about mixing a front with a rear mic?
I imagine that it has been tried and discarded, but I've never tried it myself. Might just try that later today... I haven't tried it in a long time, and probably with a deluxe when I did it. Didn't have great success with it, but you prompted me to give it a go again. First I heard of it was Eric Valentine explaining micing AC30's that way for queens of the stoneage (I think). I don't think it's so much going to add any air, more so getting a fuller picture of the tonality of the cab. Recently saw a neat thing with an engineer who did 6 or so ac/dc records. Earlier on, they'd ship a semi load of old Marshall stuff to the studio, like 50 cabs and 50 heads, then they'd spend a weeks sorting out the good sounding combinations with the engineer and techs. Narrow it down to 2 combinations that worked for each guy, then the band would show up. Later on they'd just bring the couple winners because the same amps and cabs kept winning. Anyway, he said it was basically always a 57 and 421 on the grill in combo, and each mic by themself basically sounded like crap, but the composite would sound complete. They would also move the mics and change amp settings from song to song as needed for each song. Makes sense when you listen to one of their records with that in mind. The "air" thing. I kind of have been liking a figure 8 mic out about 10" from the cab. Creates some air from the front, but also picks up sound from the back of the mic equally. Also nulls out the floor, so that's kind of cool. Doesn't create any real room sound, but it has some sense of air and natural compression from the space of the mic. Also having some luck with a Blumlein pair in the room for some sense of "space", or left/right in the room. Room is pretty dead, so again no reverb, but feels like more what it does in the room. For fun I put the room pair in front of the monitors and recorded that, and that was super close to what the monitor sound is, so that was kind of fun. I just experiment constantly for fun with audio.
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Post by walt on May 10, 2022 6:56:09 GMT -7
Open with a Z 12"in it.Cabinet is on the floor close to the wall The amp is a Therapy with 6V6's instead of 6L6's,and it sounds great clean and dirty,I move both volume knobs a lot but often leave the master around 1 o'clock. I haven't changed things up in this setup for over a year,this works great for me.
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Post by swampcooler on May 10, 2022 7:33:58 GMT -7
Thanks for all the replies. I do like mine open, and I am surprised at the low end, it's almost acting like a ported cabinet. Many times I've lost a bit of low end with an open back in order to gain the reflected sound. I haven't tried this cab outdoors yet, but if there's nothing behind it, I would probably close it. BTW, I use mine with a Remedy, which is my all-time favorite Z amp.
Swampcooler
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