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Post by jaymz1 on Mar 25, 2022 15:04:43 GMT -7
Hi all! Big fan / Z owner for 15+ years. I have been considering an EMS head / cab purchase for more than 2 years but just have not been able to land on a speaker configuration. With the EMS cab option being tied to head purchase, I have been wanting to nail this down before pulling the trigger on the head. Thus now taking another run at the issue...
.... and wondering if anyone has tried a Creamback 65 plus Greenback in series in 2 x12 cab(s)?
Specifically, here is my thinking:
1. The EMS combo has the GB sound I LOVE. I have seen comments from the Doc about EMS into closed EMS cab being too much for GBs; 2. I also LOVE the EMS (800 mode) into 4x12 GBs sound on Youtube but no Dr Z 4 x 12 cab option; 3. I am definitely liking the look of the EMS head/ EMS cab, with 2 cabs looking very sweet and easier to move than a 4x12 (my 1960A does not fit into my current vehicle). However, the option of 2 cabs of 2 GBs creates the problem that 2x12 internally wired in parallel cab x 2 cabs hooked up in parallel will still hammer all 4 of the GBs in relatively small closed boxes and if trying to get away with just one cab this just becomes the potential fire hazard the Doc alluded to (#1). Even if cabs were wired internally in series but 2 cabs connected in parallel (2 outs) the 'first' GBs in each cab would take huge hits; 4. I am not a huge fan of G12Hs unless pushed hard (I do have a pair of Anniversaries in a Z best); 5. I am not sure CBs only do it for me (i do appreciate comments from Frankie re: 4 CBs / 2 cabs and would consider this option for high volume), 6. Doc says himself that in series, the Zwreck is set up for the higher watt Gold Alnico to 'take the hit' and the lower watt Blue follows along. Thus thinking the same idea in ceramic, higher watt CB first and lower watt GB second in series.
So: A. Does anyone have any experience with this? B. Are / is there error(s) in the above thoughts and assumptions? C. Any additional thoughts?
Very much appreciated! Peace, Jaymz
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Post by nick0 on Mar 25, 2022 17:48:58 GMT -7
I can offer a couple comments on my experience. I have the combo 2x12 with greenbacks. I'm favoring the solid state rectifier with either the low input gained up about half way, or the hi input running the gain lower. Some great blues rock sounds there! In the hi input with the gain up high, that speaker configuration gets a bit loose if you're chasing those classic metal tones. However, it still sounds nice. I know this isn't the direct experience you were looking for, but maybe it helps. This amp has such a wide pallet of tones, it really depends on what you favor. adam knows a ton on this amp and has posted YouTube videos with some killer tones. Maybe he can weigh in!
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Post by adam on Mar 26, 2022 7:50:38 GMT -7
I'll give it a go!
CB in series with GB - haven't tried. Have tried CB/GB in a 4x12, but not quite the question.
Closed cab with 2 GB's being too much - not really sure why that would be. The combo comes with 2 GB's, matching closed cab having CB & H30, just guessing doc and team liked that combination best in that cab. The no 4x12 Z option, he probably thinks there are enough out there already, and maybe there's more practical solutions.
I guess my overall 2 cents is like the sound of the amp with greenbacks, either clean or distorted. 4x12 cab having more low end then say a 1x12, and it seems like you have to keep the bass pretty low when doing that, but also appreciate being able to use more bass with a 1x12. I need to experiment a little more with the H30, like I'll put one in a 1x12 and try closed and open just to see what happens.
I'd be curious to hear from people who have the EMS matching cab to see how they like it.
Regardless, good luck on your journey! That's 1/2 the fun.
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Post by adam on Mar 26, 2022 10:05:41 GMT -7
Probably veering in the wrong direction from your original question, but went a little farther...
Put a H30 in a Z 1x12, closed. Played clean with the EMS. First thought thought was "watch out for that poke of the H30". Played for a while with a strat, really started liking that. Tube rectifier position worked well with that speaker. It cuts a little of the lows which are a little boomy with that speaker, smooths the highs a little (also good for that speaker), and adds a super small amount of compression (also good with that speaker).
Then EMS to GB 4x12, I thought "this sounds fantastic", and it's maybe a little easier to play, like the speakers are more compressed. Then onto another 4x12 with V30's on the top and a h30 and 75 in the bottom. Sounded cool too, a little pokey maybe. Back to the GB 4x12, then felt it was missing something. Back to the h30 1x12, sounded great and played for a while.
Then tried other the Antidote and Remedy in the H30 1x12 and was kind of thinking the EMS sounded better. Back to the EMS in the 1x12, played for probably another hour on that config. Pretty loud, but my watch wasn't yelling at me to that's a good sign. Gain around 9pm and master at noon or a little below. If I hit the guitar hardhat was really loud, but I could control it once I got the hang of it.
So... maybe the cab Z designed for the EMS would be a good way to go. Probably would have more low end so you'd back down the bass a little, but it would probably retain what was good about the H30 and also smooth it out a little. Aside from that, it sounded really nice in all the cabs, I just sort of preferred the H30 1x12 for how I was playing today. Put another way, if I didn't try all the different options, I'd be happy with any of them. Hope that helps a little, and I'm glad I ran through the exercise.
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Post by nick0 on Mar 26, 2022 11:28:09 GMT -7
Pretty loud, but my watch wasn't yelling at me to that's a good sign. Gain around 9pm and master at noon or a little below. If I hit the guitar hardhat was really loud, but I could control it once I got the hang of it. Awesome! You're input is always great adam thank you! I have noticed this exact thing using a dB meter with my EMS combo while trying not to kill my ears with volume (although it sounds sweet). There is so SO much dynamic range available with this amp. It really takes some concentration on your attack. Once you feel it, can easily get lost for hours. I also think some lower output pickups really help to bring this touch sensitivity out. Great stuff!
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Post by pcns on Mar 26, 2022 14:58:36 GMT -7
We've been running an EMS at my house for along time now with a stock Zbest. Sounds fantastic. I've heard the stock 2x12 EMS cabs and they also sound excellent. I would recomend starting with Doc's recommendation with the 2x12 EMS, looks great and sounds great. You can adjust your tonal pallet from there. Nice Adam and some of the others experimenting. Great feedback! Todd
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Post by jaymz1 on Jul 14, 2022 17:41:50 GMT -7
Hi all, it has been a while....
Thank you, again, Adam for all the info re: different configurations. As we discussed in another forum, your clips with the EMS and a 4x12 are amazing. Great to hear that the EMS / G12H combination is a winner as well.
I do have some new information. Still wanting the open cab GB sound but also an EMS head, i contacted Z service. Frank informed that the reason the standard EMS cab is closed is that the middle panel rattles if a convertible cab is used with the EMS cab standard CB / H speakers, the panel closed and the EMS head run at high volume. Further said that a convertible cab with matching EMS trim is possible with the noted concern.
With this info, I have now ordered an EMS head and a convertible cab with EMS trim and 2 GB's through my local dealer. I have been informed there will be a wait, in part due to an International border and supply chain / distribution.
Hopefully the possible rattle will be less of an issue with the GB's (lower power, lighter magnets). If rattle is truly an issue in closed configuration, the "convertible" cab will become a 2x12 open back with EMS trim.
So, yes, not a perfect solution and definitely an expensive way to buy an EMS combo, but the advantages will be more portability, a convertible cab with GB's for a different option with the Maz 18 head, and an EMS head for use with other cabs for loud and / or closed backed option.
Will update when I have more info and / or EMS and cab.
Cheers! jaymz
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Post by nick0 on Jul 14, 2022 19:55:36 GMT -7
Congratulations my man!! You're gonna love it!
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Post by pcns on Jul 15, 2022 5:05:58 GMT -7
glad to hear you placed an order!!
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Post by Norrin Radd on Jul 24, 2022 17:34:04 GMT -7
Sweet! I wish I’d known that was an option when I got mine. I definitely prefer open backed cabs and would have gone that route. As it is, it still sounds sublime with matching 2x12 - so no regrets! Enjoy! You’re getting a truly lovely amplifier. My one piece of advice? Don’t install an FX Loop in this amp. It just doesn’t work. And that’s OK!
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Post by DocMartin on Jul 29, 2022 17:52:06 GMT -7
Good luck, it’s an awesome amp. I am running mine with the matching 2x12 and not only does it sound amazing, but it is the best looking head/cab combo I have ever seen, of any amp!
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Jul 31, 2022 2:45:04 GMT -7
I've got an interesting twist on this. I was running a Z 1x12 cab loaded with a Creamback. I wasn't completely happy with it, so I took a 2x12 Avatar cab that was originally an open back, and cut a piece of wood to make it a closed back. It's loaded with a Fane F-70 and a WGS ET-65 (similar to a Greenback, only higher power). It sounds great with my EMS. I've only done low volume tests with it so later today I'll crank it and see what it does. But I like it so far, the ET-65 has a nice Greenback sound and the Fane kicks the midrange up a notch. Very nice at low volumes. The 2x12 has a good clear thump.
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