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Post by rollyfoster on Feb 2, 2022 17:16:29 GMT -7
*thread title updated to better reflect the situation*
Just picked up a Z-Plus and loving it. It’s a 2018 with a blue alnico.
My question is whether or not ghost notes are normal for this amp. It seems more prominent with the half power setting. At least I think it’s ghosting
When I play 2 strings (primarily the G and B) together there’s frequently a sub-octave note mixed in with them. Doesn’t seem to matter what the settings or volume are so I don’t think it’s the speaker or cab noise.
It’s not a big problem or anything, just wondering if it’s typical for this amp
Tubes are all JJ. Not sure if they’re original or it even makes a difference but figured I’d give as much info as possible.
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Post by nick0 on Feb 2, 2022 19:31:03 GMT -7
I haven't noticed anything like that with mine.
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Post by j4gitr (John) on Feb 2, 2022 22:54:19 GMT -7
I don’t have that happening with mine either.
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Feb 3, 2022 6:17:28 GMT -7
I haven't had that problem with mine either, but ghosting is commonly caused by either a microphonic tube or component, or bad filter caps. Your amp is too new for filter caps to be at the end of their life, but they can still fail. It's curious that you say it doesn't matter if you play loud or soft.
I'd get a known good 12AX7 and go down the line starting at V1, replace one at a time. You can use the 12AX7 for the 12AT7 for purposes of isolating the problem, it won't hurt anything. If that doesn't find it, you say that the low power setting does it more than the normal setting, so swap the position of the two output tubes and see if that makes a difference. Hope this helps...if not, give Don in repairs a call. He's great as are all the people at Z amps.
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Post by rollyfoster on Feb 3, 2022 8:12:00 GMT -7
I haven't had that problem with mine either, but ghosting is commonly caused by either a microphonic tube or component, or bad filter caps. Your amp is too new for filter caps to be at the end of their life, but they can still fail. It's curious that you say it doesn't matter if you play loud or soft.
I'd get a known good 12AX7 and go down the line starting at V1, replace one at a time. You can use the 12AX7 for the 12AT7 for purposes of isolating the problem, it won't hurt anything. If that doesn't find it, you say that the low power setting does it more than the normal setting, so swap the position of the two output tubes and see if that makes a difference. Hope this helps...if not, give Don in repairs a call. He's great as are all the people at Z amps. Thanks yeah I’ll look into the tubes today. The weird thing is that it’s only happening on dyads. If I play the notes separately they’re fine but as soon as I play them together, no matter the amount of pressure I’m using, the ghosting happens. I don’t hear it on single notes anywhere on the guitar(s) Here’s a clip. Should be pretty obvious. soundcloud.app.goo.gl/yddjxZ89kmbUsz1V7
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Post by felixw on Feb 3, 2022 10:12:58 GMT -7
Do you play the two notes high up the neck with quite a lot of gain? What you hear may be intermodulation distortion (difference notes).
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Post by nick0 on Feb 3, 2022 10:41:09 GMT -7
This may be dumb.... but was that a room mic or directly on the amp? Sometimes I get a similar effect caused by room reflections. I love the sound of a lively room. However, I find that sometimes it results in these "ghost notes". Seems to be worse with an open back cab backed up close to a wall. Long sorry short, could just be the room in my experience.
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Post by felixw on Feb 3, 2022 12:07:42 GMT -7
I now listened to the sound sample which I had missed before - it does indeed sound like intermodulation distortion to me, a low so-called "difference note" is added. This effect occurs with double-stops, usually more pronounced the more gained-up the two notes are played, and you hear the low "ghost" note better with the bass pot turned up a bit. Depending on the interval it can sound really odd. This youtube video demonstrates the phenomenon quite well: Probably happens more with great, lively amps ...
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Post by rollyfoster on Feb 3, 2022 12:15:17 GMT -7
Don got me sorted. Quick customer service!!! All is well and it’s acting as it should. I just got it yesterday.
I’m used to the intermodulation thing happening with more gain compared to how clean this amp is when it happens. Still, the preamp gain is up relatively high before it becomes noticeable so while there’s a relatively healthy amount of gain it’s not all that distorted and that’s what caught me off guard. I’m used to this kind of thing happening with much dirtier tones.
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Post by nick0 on Feb 3, 2022 15:08:03 GMT -7
Nice! Don is the man. Dr Z customer support is second to none!
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Post by Chilly Gibbons (Todd T.) on Feb 3, 2022 16:12:14 GMT -7
Don got me sorted. Quick customer service!!! All is well and it’s acting as it should. I just got it yesterday. I’m used to the intermodulation thing happening with more gain compared to how clean this amp is when it happens. Still, the preamp gain is up relatively high before it becomes noticeable so while there’s a relatively healthy amount of gain it’s not all that distorted and that’s what caught me off guard. I’m used to this kind of thing happening with much dirtier tones. Did he help you over the phone or do you live nearby? Was it a preamp tube issue? Thanks and glad you’re up and running.
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Post by rollyfoster on Feb 3, 2022 18:19:34 GMT -7
Don got me sorted. Quick customer service!!! All is well and it’s acting as it should. I just got it yesterday. I’m used to the intermodulation thing happening with more gain compared to how clean this amp is when it happens. Still, the preamp gain is up relatively high before it becomes noticeable so while there’s a relatively healthy amount of gain it’s not all that distorted and that’s what caught me off guard. I’m used to this kind of thing happening with much dirtier tones. Did he help you over the phone or do you live nearby? Was it a preamp tube issue? Thanks and glad you’re up and running. Just email and sent some sound clips. He says it’s normal. I’ve spent a little more time balancing the preamp and master volumes and wrapped my head around what’s going on
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Post by nick0 on Feb 3, 2022 18:28:00 GMT -7
Just email and sent some sound clips. He says it’s normal. I’ve spent a little more time balancing the preamp and master volumes and wrapped my head around what’s going on Glad you're good to go! So the question is, what do you think? How do you like it?!?
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Post by rollyfoster on Feb 3, 2022 19:18:42 GMT -7
Just email and sent some sound clips. He says it’s normal. I’ve spent a little more time balancing the preamp and master volumes and wrapped my head around what’s going on Glad you're good to go! So the question is, what do you think? How do you like it?!? First full day and still getting to know it but so far I like it a lot. Really beautiful cleans and doesn’t destroy my ears with SPL. I’m contemplating switching out the blue for a cream that I have but need to look more into it before I get the motivation to solder, etc.
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Post by nicholas on Feb 5, 2022 4:48:15 GMT -7
....What you hear may be intermodulation distortion ...... John is apparently asleep at the wheel. Intermodulation Distortion is a great name for a punk rock band lol
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