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Post by swampcooler on Jan 12, 2022 17:02:05 GMT -7
Hi folks,
Pretty sure this one has been kicked around before, but what the heck . . .
I'm interested in your thoughts/opinions on buffers and where you like it/them in your signal chain. More specifically, if you use only one, does it go before or after your drive pedals? Or, at the beginning of your board or the end of the board. I use a Radial Elevator and have used it for about 8 years now, absolutely no complaints. So I don't really need new buffer pedal recommendations, I'm just interested in the before or after the drive pedal question.
Thanks so much for your time and comments,
Swampcooler
PS - running my pedal-board into a Remedy, a Jetta, a Cure, and a Mesa Boogie Mark V. Not all at the same time. That might kill me. And I use vintage output humbuckers.
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Post by purpletele on Jan 12, 2022 17:44:47 GMT -7
I have had good signal by utilizing a Polytone Tuner/Buffer 1st in the chain. Two of my boards have a Wampler Db Clean boost with a buffer as well.
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Post by LT on Jan 13, 2022 13:52:22 GMT -7
Live I use a wireless, so I have an input buffer from it. At the end of the chain I have an always-on Dunlop Echoplex pedal, so I think I'm ok there as well......maybe not quite like a dedicated buffer, but I've never felt the need to add one. Out of the board, I always use a high quality 25ft cable, and I'm sure I'm losing some top end there, but I don't notice it.
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Post by nick0 on Jan 13, 2022 19:57:52 GMT -7
I'm just interested in the before or after the drive pedal question. I'll need more info to make an educated suggestion. What drive pedals? Some things are most definitely effected by buffers in front of them or behind them. Are there any other buffered pedals on your board? Do you have an always on of any kind? What cable lengths total are you driving? Whats your signal chain? If you remove the buffer, do you hear a difference? Do you have a problem you're solving with the buffer?
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Post by zpilot on Jan 13, 2022 23:54:00 GMT -7
I like a buffer at the beginning of my signal chain. It just makes things more "consistent". I usually have at least one pedal on toward the end of the chain, typically a delay, so a dedicated buffer there isn't necessary normally.
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Post by swampcooler on Jan 14, 2022 7:27:44 GMT -7
Good questions from nick0. My board works like this:
Peterson strobe stomp in bypass >> Timmy >> Xotic BB >> Truetone H20, powered by a Truetone 1spot CS7. I use two 20' Spectraflex cables and several 6" Dimarzio patch cables. Both Spectraflex and Dimarzio have consistently earned very high marks in reviews for their tonal purity and low signal degradation. I'm not interested in chasing the cable dragon's tail in this discussion. The pedals are all true bypass. The H20 delay is always on, and I only use one overdrive at a time as I don't like stacking.
When there is no buffer, everything bypassed, you can hear the treble loss a bit, perceived as a slight midrange bump. If the buffer is at the input of the chain, it sends a lower impeadance signal down-line. That signal still sounds low impeadance even after going through the delay which is always on. So, I can hear it at the amp.
However, when the buffer is the very last device in my signal chain, the amp still sounds the same, or so close that it is insignificant. But, the drive pedals sound different, a bit more chewy in maybe a good way.
So back to my main question - do people prefer a pedal board buffer (only one allowed for this) before or after their drive pedals, on their boards?
Thanks for the good discussion, Swampcooler
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Post by nick0 on Jan 14, 2022 11:37:36 GMT -7
Swampcooler, thanks for all the info. That sounds like a killer setup!
With that exact setup, I would shorten the cable from guitar to board down to 10'. I'd set one of the H2O sides to buffered bypass (if you ever plan to run with it off) and rock it out with no other buffers. If the H2O is always on, its output impedance is most likely low enough to drive the 20' cable to the amp. In this way, it is effectively buffering the signal. I'm not sure what the exact specs are though. And that's just me, not right or wrong.
When I run a bigger board, I'll run fuzz pedals first then buffer then everything else. However, I only worry about buffering if I run a lot with no pedals on.
I have no experience with the Radial Elevator. I know it'll do more then just buffering. You can always switch your tuner's buffer on and see if that makes a difference vs the Elevator.
I will suggest that the sound difference you hear with the Elevator at the front may be caused by the difference in tone in the H2O. The difference in it seeing a buffered vs unbuffered signal.
I find that pedals like the Timmy and BB aren't effected an awful lot by buffers to my ears.
Unrelated.... I run a Cure and Remedy and they sound KILLER together. You gotta switch the phases though. Great tones there for you to play with!
In this case, I'd say let your ears be the guide. It seems you like the Elevator at the end of the chain, so go with that! Hope you enjoy the gear!
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Post by Seńor Verde on Jan 17, 2022 16:17:15 GMT -7
I use a buffer 1st in my signal chain. Not all buffers are created equal and some buffers people rave about, I don't care for. When I use my wireless I skip the buffer. All other pedals are true bypass. I play completely clean sometimes and like how everything sounds, whether any, some or all pedals are on or off.
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Post by ME on Jan 18, 2022 13:55:12 GMT -7
Thread hijack notice…. I run a Cure and Remedy and they sound KILLER together. You gotta switch the phases though. Great tones there for you to play with! Interesting that you’ve found the amps out of phase. As we noted in another thread, we have the same setup, generally, I don’t think mine are out of phase. My Remedy is a master volume and the Cure is from 2017 and is a 6V6 model. If there is nothing different in the amps then one or more of the time based effects are switching the phase. I’m using a micro POG, MXR Phase 90, Boss CE2w Chorus, DM2w Delay, Keeley Caverns, and Solidgoldfzx Stutter. I thought there might have been a phase issue when I had the effects in the loop of the Cure, but there doesn’t seem to be an issue going directly into the amp. Just a curious thing. ME
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Post by nick0 on Jan 18, 2022 16:41:21 GMT -7
Thread hijack notice…. I run a Cure and Remedy and they sound KILLER together. You gotta switch the phases though. Great tones there for you to play with! Interesting that you’ve found the amps out of phase. Do you have a phase switch somewhere on your rig? I use the Radial Twin City ABY. It has a 180 deg phase switch. Switching back and forth with my specific pedals, it was pretty easy to hear the in phase vs out of phase. The Twin City also has a buffer with a drag control that I think sounds pretty good. There, I tied it back in to the thread! Could be speaker wiring. I use the 9 volt test usually to make sure I've got all my speakers wired the same. I may have made a mistake, who knows lol! Love the Keeley Caverns. However, being digital I'm not sure if it has an analog dry through. That can be critical in running two amps. The digital lag in one amp could essentially cause a phasing issue. I suspect you'd hear that when the pedal is on vs off especially if both sides are switched to true bypass. Just a thought.... The Boss CE2W just showed up at the house today. Totally excited to try it out!
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Post by Paul (TRANE) on Jan 18, 2022 18:10:22 GMT -7
I have buffer in my wah, only active when wah is on. I have one in my Klon. That one is always on. I have a Chasetone Secret preamp at the end of the board. Very consistent tone wise.
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