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Post by runninwiththerevil (Matthew) on Feb 23, 2021 21:50:57 GMT -7
So I picked up a beat up, mid-90's Tele and I've really fallen for this guitar. Clearly this guitar has been run through it's paces for a couple dozen years and has a great feel. The guy I got it from had replaced the bridge with a Fender Broadcaster, but thought the neck pup was original. Not only do both pickups sound great, but when I pulled the pick guard to check things out the neck pup has cloth wires like the bridge leads, I don't think that is MIM.
Here's my issue - the frets are toast. I don't think there is enough material to make a crown and level job possible. I don't really have much into the guitar, so I'm willing to put a little into it because it sounds great. Looks like a refret is going to be right around $300. I like the neck, but that's not what I love about it, it could be a little beefier. I can get a Warmoth with baked maple for under $300.
As I've shared, this thing is beat, I'm not worried about "original value". What are the pros and cons between refret or replace.
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Post by Chilly Gibbons (Todd T.) on Feb 24, 2021 3:14:49 GMT -7
I might be wrong here, but I think you would have to do a level and crown on a new Warmoth neck anyway. So that would increase the cost of replacement.
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Post by runninwiththerevil (Matthew) on Feb 24, 2021 5:01:38 GMT -7
I might be wrong here, but I think you would have to do a level and crown on a new Warmoth neck anyway. So that would increase the cost of replacement. My Jazzmaster neck from them never needed anything serious. But their site says it could be necessary if the wood has adjustment after being under tension. I would imagine this would be less likely with a roasted neck. Definitely a consideration, thanks for pointing that out. "Please note, Warmoth does not perform fret leveling. Most Warmoth necks are playable as they are received and do not require fret leveling. However, because wood moves with changes in temperature, humidity and string tension fret leveling may be required. This is best done after the neck has been strung up to pitch for several days and allowed to adjust in the assembled state. For this reason, Warmoth leaves this fine tuning to the end user."
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Post by Seńor Verde on Feb 24, 2021 9:37:49 GMT -7
I have Warmoth necks on both my Strat and Tele. Oddly both guitars were breaking the high E string at the 7th fret. I polished the fret on both with fine steel wool and everything has been great since. I've had both guitars to a very reputable Luthier for him to do the fine adjustments and check everything over. He never mentioned anything about the frets.
I say if you aren't in love with the neck, order one exactly how you want. Even if a little work is needed on a new Warmoth, it will be minimal and you'll have a neck you really like.
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Post by Chilly Gibbons (Todd T.) on Feb 24, 2021 11:53:20 GMT -7
And, if you get stainless steel you’ll likely never be back in this situation again. I’m still Jonesing for some SS frets.
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Post by runninwiththerevil (Matthew) on Feb 24, 2021 11:55:32 GMT -7
And, if you get stainless steel you’ll likely never be back in this situation again. I’m still Jonesing for some SS frets. I've heard mixed reviews on stainless. What is it that Luthiers and others don't tend to like about them?
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Post by John on Feb 24, 2021 13:09:54 GMT -7
And, if you get stainless steel you’ll likely never be back in this situation again. I’m still Jonesing for some SS frets. I've heard mixed reviews on stainless. What is it that Luthiers and others don't tend to like about them?
SS is a VERY hard metal for frets. That makes it difficult to work with, and it wears down their tools. But after they're installed, that hardness keeps them from wearing away.
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Feb 24, 2021 14:54:12 GMT -7
I had my 92 Strat neck refretted in 2007 or so. For the money I spent, I wish I had just bought a nice new neck.
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Post by daddyelmis (Greg) on Feb 24, 2021 15:33:36 GMT -7
I'm debating this issue right now. My '81 strat (that I bought new in early '82) needs a refret (still has the original "vintage" low frets). It's a maple neck. Candidly I'd like to try an unfinished maple neck with gun oil, but I don't want to "ruin" the original neck. I know a good refret is going to be in the $350-$450 range. I can get a same-spec Warmoth neck in unfinished roasted maple for under $300, and save the original neck should I ever decide to sell the guitar (which I cannot imagine).
Choices, choices.
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Post by Norrin Radd on Feb 24, 2021 15:43:28 GMT -7
And, if you get stainless steel you’ll likely never be back in this situation again. I’m still Jonesing for some SS frets. I've heard mixed reviews on stainless. What is it that Luthiers and others don't tend to like about them? Luthiers/guitar techs don’t like them because it means you will be back less often to get a refret/dressing! Also, as pointed out above, the hard stainless steel does wear out the tools more quickly.
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Post by zpilot on Feb 26, 2021 7:28:53 GMT -7
Go with the Warmoth neck, and I also recommend SS frets. I am a tech and I resisted SS frets at first because I thought they would be harder on my tools. Well they are a bit but not all that bad. Most of the tools I use are diamond grit or use replaceable sandpaper and they don't seem to care. The benefits are well worth it, at least to me.
As for Warmoth's statment about fret leveling, I think that is just a "cover your a##" statement. I have installed countless Warmoth necks over 29 years and never needed anything but minor fret leveling. Most of the necks needed none at all. You might want to have a little fall off on the upper frets but that is dependent on your playing technique and how high you set your action.
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Post by runninwiththerevil (Matthew) on Feb 26, 2021 7:51:11 GMT -7
Go with the Warmoth neck, and I also recommend SS frets. I am a tech and I resisted SS frets at first because I thought they would be harder on my tools. Well they are a bit but not all that bad. Most of the tools I use are diamond grit or use replaceable sandpaper and they don't seem to care. The benefits are well worth it, at least to me. As for Warmoth's statement about fret leveling, I think that is just a "cover your a##" statement. I have installed countless Warmoth necks over 29 years and never needed anything but minor fret leveling. Most of the necks needed none at all. You might want to have a little fall off on the upper frets but that is dependent on your playing technique and how high you set your action. This thread has pushed me in that direction. I got my JM neck about 12 years ago and once I finally found a tech who could figure out how to adjust a Mastery bridge, he was really surprised that the neck on my guitar was after market. I don't know for sure, but the couple guys I had it to before him I don't think they needed to do any work on the frets. This is also the neck that I've REALLY learned how to play guitar on, so I also like the ability to get another neck with 6150 frets on it. I keep forgetting that Warmoth doesn't do PayPal. I tried to order my neck yesterday and now I need to figure that aspect out. We don't actually live near our bank so I somehow need to figure out how to magically convert my gear cash into my wife administered checking account.
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Post by runninwiththerevil (Matthew) on Mar 4, 2021 19:43:10 GMT -7
I ordered a Warmoth roasted Tele with a '59 roundback neck profile, and 6150 stainless frets. I scored a used Warmoth tortoise pickgaurd that is going to tied the guitar together better than the silver pearl one that is also too think at 5-ply. Excited to get this guitar together in the next few week. It's sounds so good and has a great feel, but is hard to play because the frets are so toasted.
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Post by daddyelmis (Greg) on Mar 5, 2021 5:05:55 GMT -7
Well, I pulled the trigger on the Warmoth neck for my ‘81 Strat. Unfinished roasted maple all around, 6105 frets, tusq nut, 3 hole mount - the 3 hole made it a custom order so it appears it could be as much as 8 weeks to get it, but I’m not in a hurry. Bought some Hipshot tuners on Amazon for it.
While the old neck is off I may have it refretted just because it needs it. If I end up not crazy about the unfinished/oiled neck I can go back to the stock one.
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Post by runninwiththerevil (Matthew) on Mar 5, 2021 8:10:31 GMT -7
Well, I pulled the trigger on the Warmoth neck for my ‘81 Strat. Unfinished roasted maple all around, 6105 frets, tusq nut, 3 hole mount - the 3 hole made it a custom order so it appears it could be as much as 8 weeks to get it, but I’m not in a hurry. Bought some Hipshot tuners on Amazon for it. While the old neck is off I may have it refretted just because it needs it. If I end up not crazy about the unfinished/oiled neck I can go back to the stock one. Even though I got a four bolt mine was a custom order. I've been watching for a few weeks to get the one with the specs I wanted and likely there will be a roasted maple Tele neck with the profile and nut width I wanted, once I priced it out it was only $21 more to order exactly what I wanted. I don't like the idea of waiting weeks and it would have been nice to see the shade and grain of the wood, but I'll probably survive.
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Post by daddyelmis (Greg) on Apr 19, 2021 14:51:30 GMT -7
Just heard my neck is shipping and should be here next monday (the 26th). Yee haw! Gotta get my gun oil and sandpaper organized. Also gotta order new tuners
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Post by Don A on Apr 19, 2021 16:35:05 GMT -7
I'm going through this now. I've got a Telecaster style guitar that I built using a USACG body and neck 18 years ago. I love everything about this guitar, but the frets are worn out! Thing is, I don't want to give up my USACG neck. I love the shape and feel of it, the feel of the finish that I put on it, the look of the headstock shape, even the USACG logo. I'm having it refretted.
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Post by Chilly Gibbons (Todd T.) on Apr 19, 2021 16:40:22 GMT -7
I'm going through this now. I've got a Telecaster style guitar that I built using a USACG body and neck 18 years ago. I love everything about this guitar, but the frets are worn out! Thing is, I don't want to give up my USACG neck. I love the shape and feel of it, the feel of the finish that I put on it, the look of the headstock shape... I'm having it refretted. If you’ve already got a top quality neck from USACG, Musikraft, or the like then why risk it. Good choice.
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Post by adam on Apr 19, 2021 17:13:52 GMT -7
I've heard mixed reviews on stainless. What is it that Luthiers and others don't tend to like about them? I think there are pro's and con's to it from both the player and luthier side. Luthier side - from what I've heard, they are just harder to work with. I don't know about the tooling wear aspect, but I think they just take longer and are more effort in general. I think that justifies the higher price. Player side: Pro - they are silky smooth. They don't wear out. Con - they sound different, which could be a good thing, but in general they are just brighter sounding. My experiences: 1. Had a Parker Fly. It had this really "pingy" sound, and I really thought it was the SS frets, but it could have just been that guitar or design in general. I didn't like it. My takeaway was that I didn't like the sound of them, but there's more to that equation. 2. Regretted my 2004 LP Standard with SS about 5 years ago (totally worn, played a lot). Luthier talked me into it, and I figured a little more brightness wouldn't hurt that guitar. I don't think it hurt the sound of the guitar, but it has some of that ping to it. I guess if I had to do it again, I wouldn't' do SS. I asked him to match the size of the original frets, whatever those were. 3. Got a deal on a 65 strat because it was pretty heavily modded. I wanted to put it back to normal as much as I could so that meant removing some huge frets (not 6100 and not 6105). Had him do regular frets like whatever it would have came with originally. I like the frets, but in hindsight, I think I might have liked the big frets more. Side note on that one, it had a humbucker in the bridge and I replaced that with a Lollar, but that pickup doesn't hold up to other 2 pickups in that guitar what are the original in the neck and the cheap Seymour Duncan (SV1?) in the middle. The Seymour sounds matched to the original, the Lollar doesn't. Don't believe everything you read. 4. Have an oddball guitar made by a guy who is a luthier at Taylor. 2 humbukers, Gibson burst bucker 1&2 (which I like a lot btw), but my friend who I got it from put 6100 stainless frets on that. That guitar gives me the same thing I didn't like about the Parker, this pinging sound. Other stuff I've seen people talk about: John Suhr talked about this a big on one of those tone talk episodes and his take was kind of the same thing, a pro and con. One example he gave was you know how when you are trying to learn something and you are going over the same lick over and over and you can basically feel the frets wearing away as you keep bending the same thing, and it creates that friction where can just feel that shaving of the fret. Ditto that. Stainless doesn't do that. My take was that he preferred nickel frets, but SS has it's advantages. Paul Reed Smith - he has some aversion to SS. Says he uses the hardest nickel alloy he can get for his frets. His guitars I think have a sound to them, I think, and maybe that is in part due to the frets. They are a little plinky or pokey sounding. Currently have a 594 model, and in general, I just kind of don't reach for that guitar to play even though everything is "perfect" about it. It has that "plink". I get more enjoyment out of my Sire LP style guitar. $600 compared to $4200 fwiw. Also had an '85 prs which I played the crap out of for 7 years and when I sold it, everything about it was still just like new. I regret selling that for what it would be worth today, but it just didn't sound very good despite the Brazilian fretboard and Honduras mahogany body and neck. I tried a number of pickups in it too. I guess my point is the hardness has something to do with the sound, not just the material. Lastly - spoke to Chris Duarte a few years ago about his old magic strat and he said it was permanently retired because it has taken too many refrets and won't stand another. In that instance, I'd say SS at refret 3 or 4 would have been a good choice. I think you get the idea... normal frets sound better to most people, but they wear. But SS is easier to play too. Pros and cons.
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Post by runninwiththerevil (Matthew) on Apr 19, 2021 18:21:28 GMT -7
I’m like 7.5 weeks from my order with Warmoth and nothing yet. I hope it comes soon.
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Post by Don A on Apr 19, 2021 19:22:53 GMT -7
And, if you get stainless steel you’ll likely never be back in this situation again. I’m still Jonesing for some SS frets. That's another side of my dilemma! I have a 2008 Carvin DC150 with stainless steel frets. Almost 13 years of playing with zero fretwear! The guitar plays like proverbial butter and sounds great. A very warm, fat sound. This guitar is my favorite after my Tele. The ss frets don't seem to be causing any tone issues.
Do I want them on my Tele? I'm terrified to mess with a great sounding guitar.
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Post by daddyelmis (Greg) on Apr 20, 2021 4:08:22 GMT -7
I’m like 7.5 weeks from my order with Warmoth and nothing yet. I hope it comes soon. When I ordered my neck they said due to high number of orders and Covid it would be 2 weeks on top of what normal delivery was. I got the UPS notice of shipment exactly at that 2 week delay point (7 weeks to the day from my order). Warmoth seems to have a good grip on their production scheduling.
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Post by runninwiththerevil (Matthew) on Apr 20, 2021 7:48:24 GMT -7
I’m like 7.5 weeks from my order with Warmoth and nothing yet. I hope it comes soon. When I ordered my neck they said due to high number of orders and Covid it would be 2 weeks on top of what normal delivery was. I got the UPS notice of shipment exactly at that 2 week delay point (7 weeks to the day from my order). Warmoth seems to have a good grip on their production scheduling. That was the same word I had, so I'm a little beyond that at this point. I'm hoping it's coming soon. EDIT: I got shipping notice today, should be here early next week.
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Post by Buzz Fretwear (Ignatius) on Apr 22, 2021 15:08:55 GMT -7
I have a maple fingerboard MIJ Strat that I've thought about refretting with larger frets, but I can't find any luthiers who are willing to touch a maple fingerboard neck finished in poly. Every one I've talked to refuses to do it for fear of damaging the finish.
Thing is, the guitar has some sentimental value to me and while I don't love the 7.25 radius, I absolutely love the V profile. I'd kind of like to keep the guitar intact.
If any of you guys know of a really good luthier who specializes in this sort of thing, please post it here.
I may end up just buying another neck for it.
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Post by daddyelmis (Greg) on Apr 22, 2021 18:09:00 GMT -7
Seems like it just takes more time because you have to score each side of each fret to cut the lacquer from the old frets before pulling them. Certainly some risk to the lacquered fingerboard, but I’m surprised a luthier wouldn’t tackle that.
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