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Post by jhen86 (jordan) on Apr 23, 2020 14:07:16 GMT -7
Fellow tone lovers,
I am going to be building a Princeton Reverb Amp Kit from Mojotone. American speakers aren't my area of expertise. I own 5 different Celestions, but don't think any of those are the way I want to go. Have a Blue, G12h30, G12m creamback, V30, and G12h creamback. Tried them all with my buddies PRRI. All unique but none are just right.
Looking for the right speaker for bright sparkly blackface cleans (ala Mayer) and some tweed stank. I am doing the RAW tonestack lift mod. Similar to Doc's tonestack bypass options on the Maz's. Gets much tweedier and nasty. Would love a speaker than can do sparkly, detailed and responsive with clean, but some nice alnico like warmth and compression when hit hard. I did actually like the stock PRRI speaker for cleans. Any gain at all though, and it just falls apart. Harsh, flabby, and nasty. So Jensen's are not even on my consideration list. Is Eminence the right way to go?
For 10's I am considering: Alnico Gold 10 The Copperhead Rajun Cajun Never heard Doc's Z10 in person. I'd consider that as well. But I am leaning more towards a 12 honestly.
12" Options: Weber 12F150 Eminence Red White and Blues Eminence GA-SC64 Cannabis Rex
Mayer uses the 12" gold and the G12-65. Not sure I'm feeling those though.
Would love to hear what you guys are digging.
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Post by gbowman on Apr 23, 2020 14:17:43 GMT -7
If you like smooth and balanced the CRex is great. Its not a chimey speaker at all, but its a magical thing in its own balanced way, especially if too bright is an issue - no skank though. I have a CRex in my Maz Jr and its perfect. I have a WGS Reaper (30 watt) in my homebuilt 5E3 (tweed) and it is great. Its not the typical USA sound in that amp, leaning a little British, but it is great in that amp.
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Post by headshrinker (Marc) on Apr 23, 2020 14:52:16 GMT -7
Texas Heat is one of my favorite speakers. Less top end than the red white and blues and brighter than the CRex. The swamp thing is nice too. Sits close to the Texas Heat but might be overkill in a Princeton type. I think it's something like 120 watts.
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Post by T-R☼CK ♫ on Apr 23, 2020 15:17:37 GMT -7
I have the Weber 12A125-A alnico in a handwired 5E3 clone. Perfect!
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Post by Mark (Basement Enthusiast) on Apr 23, 2020 15:19:55 GMT -7
As you've suggested, I would stay away from the Celestions--they're great speakers, but not "the correct" ones for blackface tones at least.
Depending upon whether your project comes out with a 10" or 12" setup, any of these could end up working very well for both tweed & blackface:
10's: Weber 10F125 - balanced to a bit brighter Weber 10F150 - LOUD, fat, slightly dark Eminence Ragin' Cajun - LOUD; big lows & highs/scooped mids
12's: Weber 12F150 - yes, perfect Eminence Red White and Blues - also perfect; a touch darker/smoother than the 12F150 above Eminence GA-SC64 - I've never tried, but very likely within the ballpark of the 2 above Cannabis Rex - bold, smooth, fat, punchy, and on the cleaner side; kind of more modern than the 3 above in my opinion
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Post by purpletele on Apr 23, 2020 15:25:30 GMT -7
Can't go wrong with the GA-SC64 it comes in 10" as well
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Post by zpilot on Apr 23, 2020 19:05:47 GMT -7
I have not heard a 12F150 but I have a 10F150 in a Princeton Reverb. When I first cranked it up I said "That is THE tone" and I have never looked back. It was also Weber's top suggested speaker for PR's. I like the Z-10 a lot too but it is darker so it mates best with Z amps.
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Post by wraparound (Steve) on Apr 24, 2020 9:32:30 GMT -7
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Post by Ridgeback on Apr 24, 2020 9:47:43 GMT -7
You want a neutral speaker to be able to bring out the character of two pretty different circuits. The most neutral speaker I have owned (and still own) is an alnico Weber California (JBL copy). Good luck.
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Post by GT Roger on Apr 28, 2020 8:08:56 GMT -7
I've been using two different cabinets with my EZG-50:
2x10 Z cabinet with a Z-10" and a Celestion Gold 10" Alnico 1x12 Z Cabinet with a Celestion 12" Cream Alnico
They both sound great to me. Even better with both cabinets at the same time.
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Post by LT on Apr 28, 2020 10:48:21 GMT -7
I have a C Rex and it's great, but in both my Nova and Cure I have the Lil Texas Neo. It sounds great, is pretty efficient and weighs next to nothing.
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Post by southmusic70 on Apr 28, 2020 11:08:44 GMT -7
+++++lil Texas
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Post by Mark (Basement Enthusiast) on Apr 28, 2020 12:25:15 GMT -7
Yup, if you want lightweight, the Li'l Texas is very good. I put one into my Carr Rambler for a bit (it's a fairly "substantial" combo, not a lightweight; hence my trying that speaker in it) and I'll tell you if it had stayed in there for good I'd have been fine with it. [In the end, I put the custom-designed stock speaker back in, but it was a close call.]
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Post by Seńor Verde on Apr 28, 2020 13:48:40 GMT -7
I've tried the following in my Cure:
Eminence Red White and Blues Weber 12F150 Eminence GA-SC64
RWB is kinda dull.
Weber, I used these for years in Fenders and Allen amps. They can be a bit bright
GA-SC64 I really like. Clear, big EQ. Extremely Fendery. Works great with the Cure, Allen Old Flame and Encore. Going to try it with my Therapy next chance I get to gig it.
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Post by Don A on Apr 28, 2020 18:44:50 GMT -7
I've tried the following in my Cure: Eminence Red White and Blues Weber 12F150 Eminence GA-SC64 RWB is kinda dull. Weber, I used these for years in Fenders and Allen amps. They can be a bit bright GA-SC64 I really like. Clear, big EQ. Extremely Fendery. Works great with the Cure, Allen Old Flame and Encore. Going to try it with my Therapy next chance I get to gig it. How does the GA-SC64 compare to the Cure's original speaker? I like the original speaker a lot but have the 10" version of the GA-SC64 in a Mojotone Princeton Reverb clone that I built and alike it a lot. I wonder how the 12" would be in the Cure.
I've also had a recent Jensen C10Q, Weber 10F150 and Eminence Copperhead in the PR clone.
-The C10Q had a nice Fender sound, but sounded a little "soft", maybe due to it's low efficiency. The amp could get lost in a band mix.
-The 10F150 was very loud and had a midrange "honk" that I didn't like.
-The Copperhead had a nice Fender sound with plenty of volume, but was a tad dull sounding.
-The GA-SC64 made the amp! It has a chime and sparkle that I've only heard in a '58 Jensen P12? that I used to own.
I've also got a Celestion G10 Alnico Gold that I used to use in a Mesa Express. I'll try it in the PR one day. Or maybe in my Mesa Mark Five:25 1x10 Combo (if it'll fit).
I was just playing my Cure alongside the PR clone and my Deluxe clone with an old Weber 12A125 in it (it's an awesome amp) and was able to set it up to sound reminiscent of the PR then step on the Cure's boost conjure the vibe of the tweed Deluxe.
I think any Jensen or Oxford style guitar speaker will cover Fender Tweed to Blackface tones.
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Post by Seńor Verde on Apr 28, 2020 20:36:57 GMT -7
I think the GA-SC64 was clearer and maybe a bit fuller. I don't remember the other differences there might have been. All of the speakers had many, many hours on them.
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Post by prspastor on Apr 29, 2020 6:50:22 GMT -7
I'm thinking out of the box here... just be patient with me.
What about the Warehouse Guitar Speaker G12A Alnico? It is the alnico version of their 12C and from what I can tell, is a nice American style speaker. If you want to roll off the highs a bit, the G12C/S would be something to look at.
Another option is the Warehouse Guitar Speaker G12L, which is their version of the EV. I love this speaker.
If you want the Mayer thing, you can buy Two Rock's signature 12" speaker directly from their website. It is a Warehouse Guitar Speaker - I think their version of the 12C, although I could be mistaken.
All are clear, clean, immersive, swirling speakers that I love for beautiful cleans - especially the G12L. They also sound great with overdrive.
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Post by trojanhov on Apr 29, 2020 8:44:13 GMT -7
I have and love:
Cannabis rex 12 8ohm WGS ET65 8ohm Dr. Z Z-12 16ohm
My z lux has the et65 right now because I’m plugging another head on top sometimes that doesn’t have a 16 ohm jack, but of the three, docs 12 is the one!
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Post by jhen86 (jordan) on Apr 29, 2020 16:32:09 GMT -7
Thanks, all. Anyone ever compared the GA-SC64 to Dr Z 12" speaker?
I think the Eminence GA-SC64 may be the front runner for me in the 12" category. I've never seen a bad review of it. And since I have no personal starting reference to go off with American speakers, it's "balanced" quality seems like a safe bet.
(I love the idea of the G12-65 variants from WGS, TwoRock, etc...I worry they may be too warm though for cleans though.)
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Post by zpilot on Apr 30, 2020 2:30:28 GMT -7
Don't discount the Z-12. It is a classic American-voiced speaker. But not a Jensen clone.
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Post by Rik on Apr 30, 2020 7:33:45 GMT -7
Z-12 Great American tone and huge bang for the buck! It's all I'm using with my Lux and my Maz JR NR MK1
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Post by Ridgeback on Apr 30, 2020 8:33:03 GMT -7
I've seen several posts mentioning the C-Rex so I thought I'd share my experience with this speaker as all four of my amps fall within the tweed => brown => BF spectrum that the OP mentioned. It is a warm, but not particularly neutral sounding speaker. It does add a bit of its own flavor to the mix. Along with the Cele Gold, it is probably my favorite stand alone 12" speaker even though I have a strong preference for mixed ceramic\alnico speakers in 2x12 cabs and don't currently have a 1x12 cab. My all time favorite speaker combo for my 50s-60s Fender voiced amps is the C-Rex + Gold. It is currently the cab hooked to the Therapy but I do play my other three amps through it when the mood strikes.
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Post by jhen86 (jordan) on Apr 30, 2020 10:18:54 GMT -7
Yes, considering the Z12 too. I’ve got a note into Eminence asking what the Z speaker might be similar to.
I watched Doc’s AMA on it again last night. Seems to be an improved Oxford. I’ve seen a lot of haters on the old “Oxfart” speakers though in the Princeton camp.
I have no doubt the Z12 sounds great just curious what the tone is like. Like a warmer RWB, or a brighter Texas Heat, etc....
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Post by Seńor Verde on Apr 30, 2020 14:45:28 GMT -7
Not to sound like a broken record, but I like the GA-SC64 best. It's clearer than the Z12 or RWB and fatter than the Weber 12F150.
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Post by zpilot on Apr 30, 2020 16:24:03 GMT -7
Yes, considering the Z12 too. I’ve got a note into Eminence asking what the Z speaker might be similar to. I watched Doc’s AMA on it again last night. Seems to be an improved Oxford. I’ve seen a lot of haters on the old “Oxfart” speakers though in the Princeton camp. I have no doubt the Z12 sounds great just curious what the tone is like. Like a warmer RWB, or a brighter Texas Heat, etc.... I have no love for the 10" stock speakers I have heard in vintage Princeton Reverbs. I think they all fart out. An upgrade to just about anything is an improvement in my book. I have tried a Copperhead, an older Mojotone ceramic and finally the 10F150 and liked them all. Just slightly different flavors. I have an original 12" Oxford in an Ampeg Gemini 1. It sounds nothing like the 10".
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Post by Chilly Gibbons (Todd T.) on May 1, 2020 16:43:31 GMT -7
Don't discount the Z-12. It is a classic American-voiced speaker. But not a Jensen clone. Z-12 has my vote.
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Post by jhen86 (jordan) on Jun 1, 2020 12:39:52 GMT -7
My Princeton is built....and amazing! Currently in a head cab. I'll try to upload some photos an sound clips soon. I took it to a buddy's last night and played it through a WGS G10a. 75W. 40oz alnico magnet. It's basically their American counterpart to a Gold 10. It sounded UNBELIEVABLE. Reopened the door for a 10" model. Has anyone compared a Celestion Gold 10 vs the G10a by WGS? Very little info out there on it. wgsusa.com/g10a
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Post by bubs42 on Jun 13, 2020 6:38:20 GMT -7
+1 for the Texas Heat. I have been swapping speakers the last couple days and I pulled a Texas Heat from an amp I had sitting. I never tried it with anything else and was blown away it and the Z28. It completely changed that amp to something else, but it was equally as killer in a new way. Blues, wonderful cleans, full on the bass but not overbearing at all. It has just a hint of breakup. When you hit the amp with overdrives, its almost like the speaker will not let it oversaturate, you get great note to note detail.
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Post by jhen86 (jordan) on Jul 7, 2020 7:23:00 GMT -7
Just pulled the trigger on a used Jupiter 12LA. Made by WGS. Akin to a 12” version of their G10a that sounded so good with my Princeton. Got a great deal on it. Arrives tomorrow. Will report findings. I liked the Z12 and GA-SC64 but couldn’t get over the alnico itch. Only have a blue to compare it to here. I imagine it will be more of a slightly Americanized gold/cream. Milkman uses them in some of their amps.
Speaking of, how in the world that guy sells his amps for such insane prices is beyond me. My home built hot rodded Princeton sounds better than the Creamer I think. I mean they look well built with all top shelf components but seriously. I’d take two Z’s for the price of a Milkman. Please and thank you.
Ok. Tangent over.
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Post by jhen86 (jordan) on Jul 8, 2020 20:34:02 GMT -7
My Jupiter 12LA speaker arrived today. It felt a little stiff so I messaged the seller to ask how much time was on it. He said he put about 20-30 MINUTES on it but it is otherwise a brand new speaker that's been sitting in storage for a year. Silly me, thinking that buying used would give me a nicely broken in speaker. My impatience is killing me.
Will be a while before I can give a fair comparison. Right now the Blue blows it out of the water. Blue has more clarity, warmth, compression, and just feels more open. Could be just a wattage thing since the Jupiter is 50 watts. We'll see.
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