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Post by ksquared on Dec 17, 2017 6:38:55 GMT -7
I've owned a Maz 18NR (and a Maz 8 too) for years, and have been running 6-8 pedals in front. As an experiment, I moved a phaser (script MXR Phase 90), delay (Carbon Copy) and Strymon Flint into the loop. I like it! The Phase 90 previously sounded mushy in front to me, so I barely used it. In the loop it's great. The CC seems to color tone less (in front it can darken things a bit). The Flint sounds the same. But most importantly (to me), the CC and Flint reverb don't get goosed unpleasantly when an OD or boost (in front of the amp) gets turned on. It's all less mushy and just sounds better.
I did this experiment with 6" cables and the pedals sitting on the amp. The next step would be to move them back to my pedalboard, so I'd be introducing at least a 10 ft cable out and the same length back. Am I going to need a buffer now?
The Flint has a buffer I could turn on, but it of course will be last in line of the pedals in the loop. Will that work or does the buffer need to go first?
Finally, is there any benefit to the crazy-expensive tube-powered buffers? Wouldn't one of the widely available $50 units work just as well?
If anyone has experience to share I'd appreciate it. Thanks!
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Post by purpletele on Dec 17, 2017 22:42:30 GMT -7
I've owned a Maz 18NR (and a Maz 8 too) for years, and have been running 6-8 pedals in front. As an experiment, I moved a phaser (script MXR Phase 90), delay (Carbon Copy) and Strymon Flint into the loop. I like it! The Phase 90 previously sounded mushy in front to me, so I barely used it. In the loop it's great. The CC seems to color tone less (in front it can darken things a bit). The Flint sounds the same. But most importantly (to me), the CC and Flint reverb don't get goosed unpleasantly when an OD or boost (in front of the amp) gets turned on. It's all less mushy and just sounds better. I did this experiment with 6" cables and the pedals sitting on the amp. The next step would be to move them back to my pedalboard, so I'd be introducing at least a 10 ft cable out and the same length back. Am I going to need a buffer now? The Flint has a buffer I could turn on, but it of course will be last in line of the pedals in the loop. Will that work or does the buffer need to go first? Finally, is there any benefit to the crazy-expensive tube-powered buffers? Wouldn't one of the widely available $50 units work just as well? If anyone has experience to share I'd appreciate it. Thanks! Ksquared, I am experimenting with the FX Loop as well. The conclusion from earlier discussions was that a buffer should be introduced in that loop. dergit (Markus) had some great info in the recent past on buffers, tubes and attenuators. ztalk.proboards.com/thread/74708/effects-loop
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Post by dcarver on Dec 18, 2017 2:23:45 GMT -7
Hi ksquared, welcome to the forum. I have a Maz 8. I currently have a rocket blue, a barber gain changer, a TC HOF reverb and a TC flashback delay on my board.
I ran the 2 overdrives and the reverb into the front of the amp until about a month ago when I added the delay. I didn't really notice any mushyness until I decided to try the effects loop. Wow ! Pretty big difference... not huge, but definitely noticeable. Like you say, it just sounds better.
I've got the reverb in front of the delay and I'm using two 10 foot cables to and from my board, no buffer. It sounds great. Both TC pedals have an on board buffer , but I'm not using it. I don't think you need a buffer with 10' cables. Try it... you can always turn on the Flint's buffer if you think you need it. Who knows, maybe some pedals work better with a buffer even with fairly short cables.
Let us know how it works out.
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Post by seamanjive on Jan 3, 2018 0:22:28 GMT -7
Hi ksquared, welcome to the forum. I have a Maz 8. I currently have a rocket blue, a barber gain changer, a TC HOF reverb and a TC flashback delay on my board. I ran the 2 overdrives and the reverb into the front of the amp until about a month ago when I added the delay. I didn't really notice any mushyness until I decided to try the effects loop. Wow ! Pretty big difference... not huge, but definitely noticeable. Like you say, it just sounds better. I've got the reverb in front of the delay and I'm using two 10 foot cables to and from my board, no buffer. It sounds great. Both TC pedals have an on board buffer , but I'm not using it. I don't think you need a buffer with 10' cables. Try it... you can always turn on the Flint's buffer if you think you need it. Who knows, maybe some pedals work better with a buffer even with fairly short cables. Let us know how it works out. I also run a HOF in the loop of a Maz 18 NR head. Also in the loop is a boss dd3 and a cs2. In front usually a treble booster. Delays and chorus sound more "3D" in the loop but, listening carefully, the sound us just a bit more "woolly" than everything in front. Reverted to everything in front for gigs over the holidays.
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Post by zpilot on Jan 3, 2018 6:02:16 GMT -7
I run all of my space and mod pedals, which includes a Flint, in the loop of my MAZ 8. I agree they just work better there. I only use a buffer at the beginning of the chain. I run a 12" cable from the send jack to an AnalogMan buffer (HIGHLY recommended) and then 20' cables to and from my pedalboard.
I like the AnalogMan buffer because I can run it at 18 volts which gives more clean headroom, which is important when running at effects loop levels.
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Post by seamanjive on Jan 3, 2018 6:08:49 GMT -7
I run all of my space and mod pedals in the loop of my MAZ 8. I agree they just work better there. I only use a buffer at the beginning of the chain. I run a 12" cable from the send jack to an Analog Man buffer (HIGHLY recommended) and then 20' cables to and from my pedalboard. The HOF will work as a buffer and I've considered a short cable to the reverb, keep pedal adjacent to amp then run long cable to delay/chorus. Prob is I'm not sure about reverb BEFORE delay/modulation. Any thoughts? Really, I should have tried it by now !!
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Post by dcarver on Jan 3, 2018 12:43:22 GMT -7
Hi seamanjive. Welcome to z talk. I'm running my HOF in front of my Flashback in the effects loop. I tried it the other way, (FB > HOF > ELoop) and couldn't really tell a difference. I'm just playing at home, with pretty short cables. Nothing over 10 foot.
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Post by ksquared on Jan 7, 2018 19:04:23 GMT -7
OP here, reporting back: I ran 3 pedals (Phase 90, Carbon Copy, Flint) in the loop with 12 foot cables to and from. No buffer. No need. It all sounded great.
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Post by seamanjive on Jan 7, 2018 23:51:14 GMT -7
Hi seamanjive. Welcome to z talk. I'm running my HOF in front of my Flashback in the effects loop. I tried it the other way, (FB > HOF > ELoop) and couldn't really tell a difference. I'm just playing at home, with pretty short cables. Nothing over 10 foot. Ok, Thx for the update. I guess the old line about "if it sounds good it is good" comes in to play! I'm sure the beardy bloke on "That Pedal Show" will have it covered....
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Post by ksquared on Apr 13, 2018 7:51:29 GMT -7
OP here, reporting back: I ran 3 pedals (Phase 90, Carbon Copy, Flint) in the loop with 12 foot cables to and from. No buffer. No need. It all sounded great. Reopening my thread, because...I was wrong! Maybe my experiment will help someone else. It turns out that the buffer in the Flint was on (it's pretty easy to do this accidentally). Also, I've been playing with my amp settings lately to get cleaner and brighter, so losses in treble are now more readily apparent. Here's the deal after much tone cork-sniffing: Flint in the the loop without buffer, 12 ft cables = very noticeable loss in trebles; much more mud Flint in the loop with internal buffer on, 12 ft cables = much better, but still a noticeable loss of treble Flint in the loop with buffer on, 6 inch cables = all is good. Reverb sounds wonderful. Maybe the slightest treble loss, not likely to be apparent in a mix with others. I think eventually I'll experiment with other external buffers and longer cables. For now, the Flint will sit on the amp, with the buffer on.
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Post by purpletele on Apr 15, 2018 12:11:21 GMT -7
OP here, reporting back: I ran 3 pedals (Phase 90, Carbon Copy, Flint) in the loop with 12 foot cables to and from. No buffer. No need. It all sounded great. Reopening my thread, because...I was wrong! Maybe my experiment will help someone else. It turns out that the buffer in the Flint was on (it's pretty easy to do this accidentally). Also, I've been playing with my amp settings lately to get cleaner and brighter, so losses in treble are now more readily apparent. Here's the deal after much tone cork-sniffing: Flint in the the loop without buffer, 12 ft cables = very noticeable loss in trebles; much more mud Flint in the loop with internal buffer on, 12 ft cables = much better, but still a noticeable loss of treble Flint in the loop with buffer on, 6 inch cables = all is good. Reverb sounds wonderful. Maybe the slightest treble loss, not likely to be apparent in a mix with others. I think eventually I'll experiment with other external buffers and longer cables. For now, the Flint will sit on the amp, with the buffer on. That is significant. Good CSI work, it's amazing how sensitive amps are with regard to signal loss.
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Post by zpilot on Apr 23, 2018 20:28:08 GMT -7
Have you tried the Flint in the loop, buffer off, and using 6" cables. I've used it that way and I don't think in that short of a cable run you need a buffer.
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