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Post by mitchj89 on Jul 17, 2017 15:11:51 GMT -7
Heres the skinny,
I've have had a Maz 18 Reverb 1x12 combo for a few months now, and I can't dial in the tone I'm looking for for the life of me. I've since started thinking about selling/ trading it for something more "American-voiced" e.g. Deluxe Reverb, etc. I've posted on numerous forums.
Someone mentioned they saw a pseudo-Maz schematic showing 220k plate resistors in V1A/B. They recommended switching them to 100k resistors to get me closer to the sound I'm wanting (less compressed, more clarity and sheen).
Do you think this is worth trying, or am I better off selling this guy and finding an amp that does me right right off the bat? Any other common mods that are related?
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Jul 17, 2017 15:17:22 GMT -7
I've modded every amp I've ever owned, and that's a lot. But I've never modded any of my Z amps. It sounds like you are in the market for a Z-Lux, I'd try one of them before modding the circuitry. But have you considered changing speakers? What's in there now? If you do some research on this website you'll find a wealth of great info about different speakers and the changes that they make. Tubes will make a definite difference too, but my suggestion is that you leave the soldering iron cold.
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Post by mitchj89 on Jul 17, 2017 15:20:57 GMT -7
Celestion G12H, which I believe comes stock. I did love the sound of the Z-Lux demos, but you can only get so much from online demos. I'd have to have some pretty solid favorable evidence to start tampering with this amp. Just looking for some insight
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Post by digs57 on Jul 17, 2017 18:27:49 GMT -7
look at a different amp...modded amp is harder to unload...
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Post by mudman on Jul 17, 2017 20:36:04 GMT -7
Try a few things first.
For a more BlackFace tone turn the cut down significantly, dime the treble and bass, turn off mids completely. Set reverb close to halfway up. Volume should be at about 10:00,master to taste. Should be a clean fendery machine
If you want more sag, run a 5y3 instead of the stock 5ar4.
Consider a speaker change to an American style speaker: weber, jensen, patriot series from eminence, wgs veteran, jupiter, etc. I ended up with a celestion blue in mine that I love.
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Post by mitchj89 on Jul 17, 2017 22:54:37 GMT -7
I tried some extreme settings with some luck, still not quite there. Researching speaker options.
However,
I was reading some older threads... Could this excessive muddiness be caused by tube issues? I've never had bad tubes affect tone like this.
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Post by mitchj89 on Jul 17, 2017 22:58:11 GMT -7
I did buy it used and I had to replace the Reverb tank. Also there is some noticeable hissing when I turn the cut down (clockwise). Man, if tubes fixed this I'd be so happy.
To test this should I just replace the power tubes or everything?
Thanks in advance. I really want to like this amp.
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Post by zpilot on Jul 18, 2017 1:41:54 GMT -7
The power amp will have the most high frequencies, and therefore hiss, when it is full clockwise. I got the best BF Fender tones from my MAZ 18 with the Cut control around 9:30 and the Mid control low. Speaker choice will change an amp easier and more than just about any single thing you can do to the amp's circuit. I don't think you will ever get where you want with that British speaker in there. Pick an american voiced speaker. Contact Weber Speakers. They really know their stuff and have a bunch of selections.
A MAZ can get you close to a DR but still, it's not a Fender. I think you are going to wind up with a Z-Lux or a JAZ. Maybe even a Cure and a good Reverb pedal. Try the speaker swap first though since it will be relatively cheap compared to a different amp.
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Post by John on Jul 18, 2017 4:31:01 GMT -7
1) YES...change the power tubes. You don't know how old they are. They DO effect tone when they get old. They are not like big bottle tubes that can last years and years. EL84 tubes wear out fast...relative to the big bottles.
2) Change the speaker!!! I personally can't stand the G12H30. (and everyone on this forum knows it...ha ha) It's fine for recording or jamming alone in the basement, but for gigging with a band, I don't like it. It has recessed mids, and accented highs and lows. The guitar is a mid instrument, and mids are where it's at if you gig. The Greenback or Blue have considerably more mids than the H...and less bass. (less bass means more mids too) The Vintage 30 could be another choice, but it's a wild card. It's because there's a big upper mid spike in tone. Meaning some people like it, some don't. Or like zpilot said....contact Weber speakers.
3) Do NOT mod the amp. If it doesn't have the tone you want, move on. But modding an amp, especially a Z is the kiss of death in the resale market. From what I can tell, there is VERY little modding of Z amps out there. That's because Doc builds them right the first time.
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Post by purpletele on Jul 18, 2017 9:47:28 GMT -7
I did buy it used and I had to replace the Reverb tank. Also there is some noticeable hissing when I turn the cut down (clockwise). Man, if tubes fixed this I'd be so happy. To test this should I just replace the power tubes or everything? Thanks in advance. I really want to like this amp. I had considered buying an older Maz 18 from CL that had some issues with the reverb circuit. I knew how to resolve the issue but chose not to go there. I was secretly considering some of the tonal mods floating about just to test the theory's and further understand Tube Amp Circuits. I am not encouraging you to make mods to your Maz 18, but it is just an amp circuit that is worth about a grand. Someone will try every permutation to come up with a new tone, guaranteed. So this is really not helpful, but another perspective.
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Post by graybeard65 on Jul 18, 2017 13:19:44 GMT -7
I did buy it used and I had to replace the Reverb tank. Also there is some noticeable hissing when I turn the cut down (clockwise). Man, if tubes fixed this I'd be so happy. To test this should I just replace the power tubes or everything? Thanks in advance. I really want to like this amp. Just scored a used Maz18 myself - not my first Z, and when it arrived, it didn't have the mojo I remembered. Opened it up, and what a hodgepodge of tubes! Odd rectifier, older Sovtek power tubes, and the rest were an odd mix of EH, Sovtek, and a Chinese tube, LPS in V1, short plates everywhere else, 12AX7, 12AU7-W, etc. it sounded good, but not great. New power tubes from forum member Perry, and I ordered up all new the same preamp tubes the doc puts in the new ones - and went with the same rectifier the doc uses too - guess what? The mojo is back! The Maz is doing what I'm used to a Maz doing! My über humble two centavos - start with the Maz equipped with fresh tubes - and as a starting point, the correct (Doc spec) tubes. That might be a great place to begin
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Post by digs57 on Jul 18, 2017 14:15:28 GMT -7
lps v1... ...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2017 15:21:10 GMT -7
Don't mod it--you'll kill the resale value. It's a Vox/Marshall-y amp by design, and that's what it's good at. If that's not the tone you're after, sell/trade it and get the thing you want (although my guess is you'll be disappointed the next time you play a DRR, after having played through the MAZ). The cut control ADDS treble as you turn it clockwise--that's why you're getting hiss from it. I usually kept mine at 9:00 or lower, since the MAZ already seemed very bright to me (I've owned three of them).
Couple of questions: what kind of guitar, what else is in your signal chain (pedals, etc), and what kind of music are you playing?
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Post by mitchj89 on Jul 18, 2017 15:30:39 GMT -7
Don't mod it--you'll kill the resale value. It's a Vox/Marshall-y amp by design, and that's what it's good at. If that's not the tone you're after, sell/trade it and get the thing you want (although my guess is you'll be disappointed the next time you play a DRR, after having played through the MAZ). The cut control ADDS treble as you turn it clockwise--that's why you're getting hiss from it. I usually kept mine at 9:00 or lower, since the MAZ already seemed very bright to me (I've owned three of them). Couple of questions: what kind of guitar, what else is in your signal chain (pedals, etc), and what kind of music are you playing? 1975 Telecaster > polytune > Keeley Compressor > Archer Ikon > Warped Vinyl mkii > 90s Memory Man > Flint Reverb > Maz 18 I play primarily folk-rock, indie, alt-country. Simple stuff with some lead licks akin to Pete Andersons style in the 90s. I am not a Paisley kind of guy and I hear his tone poke out occasionally when I jam an Anderson lick. You guys have me thinking about the Z-Lux. Would it be hard to find someone that would trade a Z-Lux for my Maz?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2017 15:49:23 GMT -7
You'd dig the Z-Lux, I think, but I don't see too many people letting them go now that the first wave of early adopters has come and gone. One thing I'd recommend trying if you're looking for a more Fender-y tone out of your Maz, and it won't cost much: try Doc's Z-12 speaker, which is a great American-voiced speaker with a nice round top, smooth mids and plenty of bass. Also, turn that dang cut knob down to about 8:00, run your bass and treble around 1:00 and cut your mids to about 9:00--and make sure your volume knob is past noon, otherwise the Maz can sound pretty thin onstage. Don't be afraid of knob settings that "look weird," in other words.
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Post by John on Jul 18, 2017 17:09:38 GMT -7
turn that dang cut knob down to about 8:00, run your bass and treble around 1:00 and cut your mids to about 9:00--and make sure your volume knob is past noon, This is pretty much a 'blackface setting'....especially because the mids are down at 9. Want tweed/baseman/Marshall? Turn the mids back up. (a lot)
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Post by mikefleming on Jul 19, 2017 7:38:17 GMT -7
I agree with the guys who say to try a new speaker. I was amazed how much more "fendery" my Maz got when I tried it with a Jensen-style speaker. Then I realized why I had never really liked Fenders that had Celestions in them. Speakers have a way bigger impact on the tone than I ever realized.
I've recently been going between a Texas Heat and a Swamp Thang. Both are great, and put me right in the classic Fender tone ballpark. (SW is in there now for extra thump and headroom.) I still keep the mids kind of low for that sound; if they go high it gets way into "Maz" land, which is great, but much less Fendery.
I'm telling you though, it was remarkable - playing my tele into the Maz with Celestions, it always sounded great but never like a classic tele sound. Then with the American speakers, I was like "THAT is a telecaster."
If I was you I'd try one of those two, or a Weber 12F150. Also the Z12 is supposed to be a big American-voiced speaker, could be worth a shot!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2017 10:17:19 GMT -7
Would a Cure get you any of that Fender type tone? Being a 6V6...
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Post by Rik on Jul 20, 2017 6:50:13 GMT -7
Change the tubes and try a Z 12 very American sounding. Your current speaker is also a great speaker. It's what the Doc chose for stock and I trust his ears! But his 12 is really nice and very reasonable on the wallet
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Post by mikefleming on Jul 20, 2017 15:10:02 GMT -7
Hey also, if you're still thinking about mods, find the thread further down the page where the guy replaced his slope resistor with a pot (a variation on one of the Doc's suggested mods). Interesting review of the effects of different slope resistor values.
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Post by zpilot on Jul 21, 2017 2:06:30 GMT -7
By the way, welcome to the forum. I couldn't help noticing your avatar. Is that a Tri-gear Twin Beech? Yours?
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Post by purpletele on Jul 21, 2017 2:16:38 GMT -7
By the way, welcome to the forum. I couldn't help noticing your avatar. Is that a Tri-gear Twin Beech? Yours? I was wondering who was going to comment on his Airplane Avatar.
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Post by mitchj89 on Jul 21, 2017 14:35:40 GMT -7
By the way, welcome to the forum. I couldn't help noticing your avatar. Is that a Tri-gear Twin Beech? Yours? I was wondering who was going to comment on his Airplane Avatar. Not mine. Ran into one at a small airfield in the middle-of-nowhere Georgia a few years back right after I got my PPL. It's age was very apparent. Very cool.
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Post by mitchj89 on Jul 22, 2017 18:43:18 GMT -7
So... I started ex-ing pedals out of my chain and discovered that my delay was sucking some tone, but it was still not giving me what I wanted. Then the following day something clicked...
I had the amp against the wall on the ground... I'm not sure why I didn't realize this as I always raise my amps off the floor. I proped it up on a chair in the middle of the room to test it out and about 75% of the problem was solved. Still a couple issues but it sounds endlessly better.
I read that some of the newer Maz 18s use 250k pots on the bass. I'm pretty sure I have an older model. You guys know anything about this?
I'm much happier with what I'm getting. I even popped the delay back in the chain and didn't notice a drastic change!
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Post by zpilot on Jul 22, 2017 20:52:52 GMT -7
I know people have to move their amp around to find what works best for them. It's like speakers. We all have our own preferences. Some like the added low frequencies they get from it setting on the floor. I'm like you in that I like my amp about 12 to 18 inches off the ground so it decouples. That's indoors. When playing outdoors I like to use it with a sealed-back extension cabinet and set the open back combo on top of it.
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