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Post by Mark (Basement Enthusiast) on Jun 5, 2014 8:21:33 GMT -7
I've been re-acquainting myself with the Ghia lately, thanks to my new model with some quality NOS glass in V1 & V2. Fantastic little amp, I tell ya'. ("Little"? Yeah, right.. not once you listen to it!) Pretty early on with it, I was really liking its cleans--they seemed really 3-D to me. I swore I heard the elusive "swirl."
And then recently, in praising the StangRay, Pete mentioned the "bouncy spanky growling jangle" of the EL-84 StangRay. That's kinda how I'd describe the loud-ish cleans coming from my Ghia. So, um, is it just me... or is the Ghia totally the StangRay's little brother? I mean, if somebody said they wanted the StangRay but it's just too much horsepower, I'd insist that they try a Ghia.
Thoughts?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 8:50:57 GMT -7
I've owned both, and not to take anything away from the Ghia, but to me, the Ghia had a focused, two dimensional type of sound (when compared to the Stang Ray).
When I plugged my Ray into the same open back 212 cabinet with blues, I heard a blooming, three dimensional sound. Like many have said, a percussive and piano like low end ;-)
There must be something about a quartet of EL84's vs. a duet?
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Post by digiTED aka 'Ted' on Jun 5, 2014 8:58:00 GMT -7
How does the phase inversion and OT design compare between the two?
I understand that the character of the harmonic content from the output section depends on how the two halves of the single are split at PI and recombined in the OT.
As for siblings I tend to think of the Monza as a baby Mazerati GT like the Ghia is a baby Mazerati.
Some have suggested the M12 can be something of a baby StangRay with a high voltage rectifier.
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Post by simpleton on Jun 5, 2014 9:09:42 GMT -7
Interesting thread...I love my Ghia and I think that the sound is a "3D" sound. My only comparison for that is the Monza or my old Divided by 13 SJT 10/20, and Swart STR. The Swart and the Ghia both seemed to add notes in whilst playing, but no amp has sucked me into the zone more than the Ghia...
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Post by John on Jun 5, 2014 9:20:51 GMT -7
When I had my first 'ray, it was at a time when I also had a Maz Jr. I put a 5751 in V1 of the maz jr and ran it rather clean, and turned the mids down. (or use a G12H30) THAT got close to a low powered stangray. It compressed a bit more than the 'ray, and the beefy firm bottom end wasn't the same. But it got in the same ball park.
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Post by simpleton on Jun 5, 2014 9:27:26 GMT -7
When I had my first 'ray, it was at a time when I also had a Maz Jr. I put a 5751 in V1 of the maz jr and ran it rather clean, and turned the mids down. (or use a G12H30) THAT got close to a low powered stangray. It compressed a bit more than the 'ray, and the beefy firm bottom end wasn't the same. But it got in the same ball park. But NOW that you've got both together (Ghia/'Ray). Any similarities you notice?
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Post by gitaryzt1985 on Jun 5, 2014 9:58:34 GMT -7
Interesting observations!
I can't comment on the Ghia vs Stangray debate, but I can say that my Ghia and Maz 18 sounded more similar at the right settings than the M12 sounded to either one. I'd say the M12 was my least favorite of the 3.
That said, the Ghia compared to some of the other nice amps I've owned (Mesa, Two Rock, Bad Cat) is the most 3D sounding of the bunch. Well, any of the Z's sound 3D compared to other amps. To me, 3D just infers that you can hear the separation in the strings and differences in highs, mids, and lows. When I had my Two Rock, it was all mids and lows. There really wasn't a lot of chime or sparkle. The Mesa's are just sterile and generic sounding and the Bad Cat was all voxy treble. I think that the way some people describe 3D has more to do with the cabinet and room than the actual tone of the amp.
The Ghia next to probably the Maz 18 is the best amp I've ever played...bar none.
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Post by Mark (Basement Enthusiast) on Jun 5, 2014 10:07:23 GMT -7
... Like many have said, a percussive and piano like low end ;-) There must be something about a quartet of EL84's vs. a duet? For sure. I think a higher-power amp is always gonna put out more thumping lows than a lower-powered one of a similar type. ... I tend to think of the Monza as a baby Mazerati GT ... YES! Good call about the Mazerati, too. I had forgotten about that Ghia --> Mazerati lineage. But then again, it's probably not too far of a stretch to go Ghia --> Mazerati --> StangRay? (I'm just throwing out ideas here.) In any case, Ghia = fantastic.
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Post by John on Jun 5, 2014 10:54:12 GMT -7
When I had my first 'ray, it was at a time when I also had a Maz Jr. I put a 5751 in V1 of the maz jr and ran it rather clean, and turned the mids down. (or use a G12H30) THAT got close to a low powered stangray. It compressed a bit more than the 'ray, and the beefy firm bottom end wasn't the same. But it got in the same ball park. But NOW that you've got both together (Ghia/'Ray). Any similarities you notice? 1) The Ghia has more midrange. Ray is more scooped. (especially with the tone knob past noon) 2) The Ghia doesn't have the brilliant high end of the 'ray. 3) The Ghia has less of that el84 chime than both the 'ray and the Maz Jr. 3) The Ghia doesn't have the firm bass of the 'ray 4) The 'ray stays clean for a LONG time as you turn up the amp volume. The Ghia distorts MUCH faster. If you want something like a 'ray, you need to keep the Ghia's volume knob down so it doesn't distort. 5) The volume knob on the guitar for the Ghia= more distortion...not much more in volume. The volume on guitar for the 'ray= LOUDER. It's got the power to back things up. For #3 above...I've said for a long time: Ghia= two parts Marshall, one part Vox Maz Jr= two parts Vox, one part Marshall (the opposite) And don't take any of the 'Ghia doesn't have' written above as a negative. It's just different, not negative. The Ghia gets 90% of my gigs. And all I've written above is based on my vintage/standard output tele pickups.
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Post by simpleton on Jun 5, 2014 11:17:54 GMT -7
Great take John. Since you use the Ghia so extensively, I always like hearing your thoughts on it. It helps me to understand the "terminology" in describing what I'm loving about the Ghia. I had not thought about the Ghia being mid range-E...but thinking back compared to my /13, I can remember thinking it was more "focused tone" not as much bass and treble. Probably was hearing "mid range" frequency and not know it. Now with the Monza/Red Fang combo I definitely heard the Mid range thing... Give me 2 parts Marshal to 1 part Vox any day !! Great description. I'm still going to pretend I have a baby Stang-Ray when I'm at home and no one is looking.
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Post by Ridgeback on Jun 5, 2014 11:18:59 GMT -7
I had both for a long time. John pretty much nailed it above. I found very few similarities between the two.
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Post by jb on Jun 5, 2014 15:27:28 GMT -7
If the Ghia suits your volume needs, I can't imagine a better sounding amp. It is so easy to dial in the tone that you are looking for and need in a band or solo situation. Everybody needs to own one, its a tonal safety net!
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Post by bluzman on Jun 5, 2014 16:55:48 GMT -7
I think if you want a Stang Jr... You can get the Rx Jr there with a 5V4 or 5AR4 Rectifier. Some say the M12 but I haven't spent enough time time trying... I can get that StangRay hair with a Tele when I plug into the Lo input on the M12.
I think the EF86 front end is required.
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Post by gitaryzt1985 on Jun 6, 2014 6:02:13 GMT -7
I think if you want a Stang Jr... You can get the Rx Jr there with a 5V4 or 5AR4 Rectifier. Some say the M12 but I haven't spent enough time time trying... I can get that StangRay hair with a Tele when I plug into the Lo input on the M12. I think the EF86 front end is required. From everything I've read it sounds like the M12 is a lower powered Z28. I dug the M12 but I found it surprisingly quiet. Maybe it was the Greenback but I could crank it in a bedroom comfortably. The Ghia on the other hand is a MONSTER at 9 oclock on the volume lol.
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Post by bluzman on Jun 6, 2014 9:22:19 GMT -7
Not to me. the M12 is EL84 output. The Z28 is 6V6 output. While it has the same front end and tone stack thing going on as the Z-28 the output is different. The M12 is a brighter sounding amp to me.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2014 11:51:39 GMT -7
The Ghia is its own thing.
The Stang Ray is its own thing.
The MAZ line is its own thing.
The M12 / Z28 / RT66 / KT45 / Delta 88 are the most similar in design (circuitry). The biggest difference is the output tubes and transformers to compliment them.
The Rx line is its own thing. EF86 was V2 (tone stack, not input gain), so its quite different.
Etc Etc Etc.
I've owned MOST Z amps. Some several times over (4 Ghia's and 4 MAZ 18's for starters).
Without sounding funny or too simplistic. The best "Stang Ray JR" would be a Stang Ray turned down a bit (on the guitar preferrably). "Higher power" amps still sound fantastic turned down. The Stang Ray was a clean machine anyhow, so it doesn't break up anywhere near what a Ghia would.
Most of what we love about Z is his originality. Don't confuse or attempt to homogenize the models. They're all different, IMO.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Jun 18, 2014 18:07:12 GMT -7
Well said.
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Post by John on Jun 19, 2014 5:52:48 GMT -7
"Higher power" amps still sound fantastic turned down. Well....I would tend to disagree....
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 11:44:32 GMT -7
Well....I would tend to disagree.... Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks!
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