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Post by jasonericfoster on Mar 18, 2014 11:43:30 GMT -7
Sorry if this has been asked and answered a million times, i can't really find a good answer in a quick search. There's a guy on this board with a video of himself playing a Les Paul through a Remedy with fantastic clean sounds. I wish i could find quickly which thread it's in (saw it yesterday)
I understand people want to buy the Remedy for overdrive, but that clean is beautiful.
Here's the question- can you maintain that clean with as much volume as you could on a DRRI or better yet a 228? Or basically any 2x6v6 platform? I assume with 40 watts and 4 6v6 you should be able to play that amp clean with character at stage volume and do better than you would with a 2x6v6 as far as headroom. Again i understand that amp wants to be overdriven and is designed as such, but does anybody have a solid answer on the cleanish headroom compared to various 22w 6v6 designs?
Thank you in advance.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Mar 18, 2014 11:53:44 GMT -7
I've found that it is a characteristic of how far you turn up your guitar. If you're willing to manhandle the guitar volume control, you can get some spectacular cleans from the Remedy. As you turn down, you lose the hair first, and then you lose volume.
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Post by jasonericfoster on Mar 18, 2014 11:57:17 GMT -7
Thanks Steve. I guess i'm not asking the question right though. If you have a guitar, any guitar, with the guitar volume all the way up the whole time, and you plug into a Remedy, and then into a 22watter like a 2z8 or even a DRRI or similar (going through the same cabinet and speaker) which amp will stay cleanest the loudest all other things being equal.
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Post by Jaguarguy (Mike) on Mar 18, 2014 12:05:38 GMT -7
KT45, Stingray, EZG 50 will all stay clean and loud!
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Post by Jaguarguy (Mike) on Mar 18, 2014 12:08:50 GMT -7
Is this one video you were talking about?
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Post by jasonericfoster on Mar 18, 2014 12:10:13 GMT -7
This is bizarre. I'm sorry. Does anyone know if a Remedy has more or less clean headroom than a Z28?
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Post by jasonericfoster on Mar 18, 2014 12:14:12 GMT -7
Is this one video you were talking about? Yes! That's the one. Does it do that louder than a z28 or similar 22watter? (not interested in KT45, EZG, etc)
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Post by jasonericfoster on Mar 18, 2014 12:20:22 GMT -7
Sorry spoke too soon....that's the right guy, wrong video. He has a cleaner one.
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Post by Jaguarguy (Mike) on Mar 18, 2014 12:24:28 GMT -7
My guess is that with the Remedy he has the volume way down on the guitar to get those cleans. His handle is Roknfnroll - search him out on youtube for all his videos. The Remedy also has 40 watts on hand versus 22 for Remedy.
Here he is again with a Z-28 demo
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Post by Jaguarguy (Mike) on Mar 18, 2014 12:26:55 GMT -7
BTW - welcome to the Forum. Where do you live? There may be a Z bro closely that you can test drive them with? S. E. Michigan here if you are close by.
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Post by jasonericfoster on Mar 18, 2014 12:34:44 GMT -7
I live in So Cal. Closest place is Truetone music, but this is LA so takes me an hour to get across town. I'm either gonna pick up z28 or Remedy head i think (I love 6v6 and have multiple Deluxe Reverb style amps). Just want to know if which of these amps has more headroom and seems when i asked the question other places people kept responding EZG50. I mean, i get it, they're telling me which Z is loud and Fender, but i don't want that. I just want to know between a Z28 and a Remedy which can you dial in a louder clean (without riding the guitar volume, which i'll also do, but for the purposes of my question let's assume i'm not). Thanks for help...i hope i find out!
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Post by jasonericfoster on Mar 18, 2014 12:35:29 GMT -7
Sorry my above message is full of typos, i'm distracted.
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Post by Pete aka shouldb on Mar 18, 2014 13:40:00 GMT -7
I live in So Cal. Closest place is Truetone music, but this is LA so takes me an hour to get across town. I'm either gonna pick up z28 or Remedy head i think (I love 6v6 and have multiple Deluxe Reverb style amps). Just want to know if which of these amps has more headroom and seems when i asked the question other places people kept responding EZG50. I mean, i get it, they're telling me which Z is loud and Fender, but i don't want that. I just want to know between a Z28 and a Remedy which can you dial in a louder clean (without riding the guitar volume, which i'll also do, but for the purposes of my question let's assume i'm not). Thanks for help...i hope i find out! Hi there, I have both Remedy and Z28, and you are asking a VERY specific question which I will try to answer, BUT there are variables which will change things because there is MUCH more separating these amps than they have in common, and they react to different guitars and inputs differently - hence why no-one has give you a straight answer. I would say that, given the same guitar, set the same way, the Z28 will give you more clean headroom, but not more volume. That's because the Z28 has an EF86 front end (BIG headroom) but only 2x 6V6; the Remedy has 12AX7 front end (ODs pretty quickly) but 4x 6V6. BUT...... (heres the "but"), they react differently with different guitars and different guitar volumes - sorry brother, but to play one of these amps to its fullest extent, the GV has to be used as they are both VERY dynamic amps. You can see in the second Remedy video Mike posted that he is working the GV as he plays, and it's never REALLY clean. Play a Strat through the Remedy and you'll get the cleanest tones, a P90 will give you loads of harmonics and a little hair, but an LP will struggle to stay clean even with the GV rolled back. On a Z28 things will stay cleaner, if you keep all the amp controls below noon (after noon they act as Gain controls, so OD is added). Both of these amps are muscular, and both are very dynamic, but the Remedy will dirt up and compress sooner, so the CLEAN volume may just sit with the Z28, but only just (with the caveats I said above ie: if you whack the front end hard with a Les Paul, you will never get true cleans from a Remedy, for example) Does that help in any way? In truth, you really have to give them a go and see which ones suits your playing, guitar choice and taste...... or do what I did, and get them both!
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Post by mfirst on Mar 18, 2014 13:42:36 GMT -7
My take on it is that the Remedy has less clean headroom on the 20 watt setting than the Z28, but it has more clean headroom on the 40 watt setting.
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Post by wubberdubber on Mar 18, 2014 14:01:27 GMT -7
Hope you realize that a Fender DRRI and the Remedy are very different amps. Even though the Rem uses 6V6's, I would say it's much more Marshall-y than Fender-y. I don't have a Z28, but I do have a Remedy and a Deluxe Reverb reissue. To me..the Remedy has more clean headroom before it starts to naturally break up, but...it's a 40 watt amp and the DRRI is 20 watts, and the tone stack is different.
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Post by Pete aka shouldb on Mar 18, 2014 16:46:18 GMT -7
I think that's why people have suggested the EZG50 - because you mentioned a DRRI. Neither the Remedy or the Z28 are like a DR - the Z28 has elements of Tweed but not DR. The Remedy has much more Marshall Super Lead tendencies and not much Fender anything really.
Also, that 40W choice in the Remedy alters the game plan against 20W amps of course.
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Post by jasonericfoster on Mar 18, 2014 16:47:33 GMT -7
Hey Guys, thank you for all the responses. I think i more or less have an answer. Yeah, i'm down with how Z amps work for the most part. My first one was what was called a "Maz Invasion" combo, that must have been 15 years ago maybe. I later sold that to get a Maz 38 because i heard it was an upgrade, but i was very sad because i liked the old one alot more for some reason. It just had magic. Later on i decided that EL84s are not my jam, and that i am definitely all about 6v6. I've now owned just about every 6v6 overpriced boutique amp you can imagine and am currently taking out an FTR37 on gigs (corp events, big weddings, regular gig at Disneyland.) But since that Maz i have not had another Z, so i was thinking about going after a 6v6 Dr. Z. I do realize the Remedy is more plexi than Deluxe Reverb, but i still hear those 6v6s in the online demos and am interested, and since everyone knows what a DR does it's a good measuring stick in my opinion. Of course i didn't mean to imply that i would never work my volume knob, but for the purposes of the discussion i just wanted to get an opinion on if the z28 or Remedy had more cleanish volume without considering that, because that will determine the first one i try.
Thanks for chatting with me.
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Post by iluvpunz on Mar 18, 2014 17:54:13 GMT -7
Welcome! I set my Remedy pretty clean, usually with the normal volume a little below noon and the high volume at about noon. Tone controls also around noon. I have an NOS 5751 in V1. The cleans are great, and I would say there is much more clean headroom than the Deluxe Reverbs I've owned. Yes, you can get a similar sound out of the Remedy with a good reverb (I use a Srtymon Flint) but as others have said the Remedy is more Marshall than Fender. Think Marshall cleans of the JTM 45. Sweet and full bodied whereas the Deluxe Reverbs can get a little spiky. Cleans with a Les Paul that has good pickups only requires rolling off the volume. All of the other goodies in the Remedy are a bonus!. Speaker and cabinet choice will be a factor in headroom also. The Remedy only comes in a head. Hook it to a Z Best and you will have enough clean headroom to play just about anywhere.
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Post by jasonericfoster on Mar 18, 2014 20:20:57 GMT -7
Welcome! I set my Remedy pretty clean, usually with the normal volume a little below noon and the high volume at about noon. Tone controls also around noon. I have an NOS 5751 in V1. The cleans are great, and I would say there is much more clean headroom than the Deluxe Reverbs I've owned. Yes, you can get a similar sound out of the Remedy with a good reverb (I use a Srtymon Flint) but as others have said the Remedy is more Marshall than Fender. Think Marshall cleans of the JTM 45. Sweet and full bodied whereas the Deluxe Reverbs can get a little spiky. Cleans with a Les Paul that has good pickups only requires rolling off the volume. All of the other goodies in the Remedy are a bonus!. Speaker and cabinet choice will be a factor in headroom also. The Remedy only comes in a head. Hook it to a Z Best and you will have enough clean headroom to play just about anywhere. Thank you, that's helpful. Overall it kinda sounds like people are saying the Remedy and Z28 are not too different in the available clean volume. I have a an old style 2x10 Z cab i picked up with Dr. Z 10s. I think either a z28 or Remedy head would be a nice small rig with that cab that i'm just hoping to take to smallish gigs and get as much clean out of it that i would a DRRI i sometimes bring (real small gigs i've even taken my Princeton Reverb). I do realize neither are blackface sounding , and that's actually cool. They still have 6v6 charm, the z28 to my ears online adds a little tweed and the Remedy adds a little Marshall.
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Post by Pete aka shouldb on Mar 19, 2014 0:31:54 GMT -7
Welcome! I set my Remedy pretty clean, usually with the normal volume a little below noon and the high volume at about noon. Tone controls also around noon. I have an NOS 5751 in V1. The cleans are great, and I would say there is much more clean headroom than the Deluxe Reverbs I've owned. Yes, you can get a similar sound out of the Remedy with a good reverb (I use a Srtymon Flint) but as others have said the Remedy is more Marshall than Fender. Think Marshall cleans of the JTM 45. Sweet and full bodied whereas the Deluxe Reverbs can get a little spiky. Cleans with a Les Paul that has good pickups only requires rolling off the volume. All of the other goodies in the Remedy are a bonus!. Speaker and cabinet choice will be a factor in headroom also. The Remedy only comes in a head. Hook it to a Z Best and you will have enough clean headroom to play just about anywhere. Thank you, that's helpful. Overall it kinda sounds like people are saying the Remedy and Z28 are not too different in the available clean volume. I have a an old style 2x10 Z cab i picked up with Dr. Z 10s. I think either a z28 or Remedy head would be a nice small rig with that cab that i'm just hoping to take to smallish gigs and get as much clean out of it that i would a DRRI i sometimes bring (real small gigs i've even taken my Princeton Reverb). I do realize neither are blackface sounding , and that's actually cool. They still have 6v6 charm, the z28 to my ears online adds a little tweed and the Remedy adds a little Marshall. Looks like you've got it nailed Enjoy whichever one you choose (I'm on the DrZ 6V6 side of the fence too - I love what he does with them!) and welcome to the forum.
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Post by vanceen on Mar 24, 2014 9:09:57 GMT -7
I may be going against the stream here, but the Remedy is in no way my go-to amp for clean tones.
People mean different things by clean, it appears. The tone Roknfnroll is getting in the first part of the video above is not what I call clean. Sounds great, but it's definitely got some hair on it.
I've got a Mesa Lone Star Special that gets pristine cleans, and even better, a 64 Fender Super Reverb with gorgeous glassy, fat cleans. I haven't been able to get the Remedy to sound close to these in the cleans department.
But that's not why I have a Remedy. My other amps can't touch the Remedy's Marshallesque sounds (although strangely enough, my kit built Tweed Deluxe gets much closer than the other two). They've got great overdriven tones, but they sound very different from the Remedy.
I've gigged with the Remedy, and the cleans are OK. In a band setting, they are more than adequate. But it really shines when the guitar volume gets turned up. For sitting in my studio playing jazz or finger style stuff, I use another amp.
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Post by "Z" Steve on Mar 24, 2014 13:56:29 GMT -7
Jason - I'm I So Cal, Redlands, and I have both the Z28 and Remedy amps. If you still want to hear both maybe we can work out something where you can hear them. I have a 2x10 or 2 12 cabs if that helps. PM me or reply here.
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Post by jasonericfoster on Mar 30, 2014 11:53:54 GMT -7
Thanks Steve.....but I have an update.
Still haven't purchased anything but had a gig last night in Santa Monica and had a chance to spend an hour in Truetone Music beforehand. There I played through a Remedy head and 1x12, a Z28 1x10 combo, and a Jaz 20/40 2x10 combo. Was very happy to try all the 6v6 models in one place. Here are some thoughts. All three of these amps had way more clean headroom than I expected. When I say clean headroom I don't mean sparkling hi if clean, I just mean not sounding like a distortion pedal. They all had a loud clean sound with character that seemed enough to use on most stages with pedals. I was happy to discover that. Even the 1x10 z28 seemed to have enough. The Remedy while obviously gainy was less gainy than expected. I cranked both pres to see what it would do and it wasn't as heavy as I expected, that's a good thing to me. But out of three I think the 28 was my favorite, and the Jaz a close second. The Jaz sounded good but was voiced strangely to me, the most pleasing clean tone to me was with the the mid and bass knobs at max at the treble knob at about zero. That seems bizarre, but the amp was so incredibly bright it took that to make a sound I liked. At that setting I really liked it but was worried that I had to do something so extreme with the knobs. Maybe that's a silly worry. But overall the 28 seemed most friendly to me and had way more clean (ish) than expected, a pleasant surprised. I think I want a 1x12 combo. Any in the emporium part? I don't think I have access.
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Post by jasonericfoster on Mar 30, 2014 11:59:08 GMT -7
Sorry about all the typos above....iPhone corrections.
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Post by doctorice on Mar 30, 2014 13:37:58 GMT -7
Glad you were able to try out a JAZ. There aren't many of them around. Seemingly extreme settings of the tone knobs do not necessarily indicate a problem. (Some of us have a few threads going in the JAZ section about this.) Unlike the Z-28, the JAZ tone controls are totally passive and subtractive. The amp delivers its max gain with all those knobs fully up. As you dial them down, you attenuate certain frequency bands. Of course, they're quite interactive with one another and with settings of the Volume and Master. As a result, the amp has a bit more of a learning curve to dialing it in. For example, you liked treble nearly off; others go with bass just barely on. The 2x10 Z speakers lean toward the bright side as well, imo. If you decide to re-visit the JAZ, try maxing all the eq knobs and the Master with Volume off. Then bring up Volume and start tweaking. With your eyes closed
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Post by Pete aka shouldb on Mar 30, 2014 14:37:39 GMT -7
and the Z28 wins another heart yet again.......... that is a wonderful amp, and will go to my grave with me, even though I mostly gig my Remedy at the moment The Z28 is a surprisingly versatile amp, and as you have discovered, the definition of "clean" and "gain" are very much relative, especially in the world of Z - his goal is tone, not gain, and most of his amps are low to medium gain (the Monza would probably the only high(er) gain amp in the stable, and maybe the Mini Z). The Jaz I have no experience of, but I know a few up here really love it!
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