According to the Celestion website the Vintage 30 was an early attempt to replicate the tone of the Blue with a higher power rating. My question to all of you is what you feel the differences are. The reason I ask is that I play hard rock and the Vintage 30 is obviously the industry standard but I cannot stand the high mid spike but do like the rest of it's tonal characteristics. I plan on putting either 4 Golds or a combo of Golds and another speaker in a closed back cab for hard rock. Any advice is much apreciated!
Last Edit: Mar 3, 2008 0:04:51 GMT -7 by lucidawake
Post by bustertheboy on Mar 3, 2008 1:46:47 GMT -7
Hi lucidawake like you I didn't want that spike, so I got the WGS V30 clone, which is much smoother, also cheaper. Lovely by itself, quite magical with a Greenback. Do either sound like a Blue or Gold? No- they are a ceramic speaker and sound like it- not that pretty, bright sugary sound at low volume, morphing into a compressed sweet sound. Still very nice- not better but different! Brett
Strat, Teles, a couple of hollow bodies, lap steel, various resonators
Carmen Ghia head
Z-28 head
1x12 cab EV12L
212 cab Red Fang/WGS v30 clone
Lots of pedals, lots of changes
Post by benttop (Steve) on Mar 3, 2008 9:38:59 GMT -7
I'm betting you would like the Golds a lot more. They do have that upper mid spike, but it has "give" if you get what I mean. It doesn't hurt your ears or sound harsh like the V30 can in some circumstances. The problem is that I don't think the Alnico speakers really do all that well in closed back cabs unless they are ported. I've heard of guys putting them in the Z-Best and finding they are great there, but in a totally closed back system they distort because of the back pressure in the cab. The ceramic speakers are much better in the closed box scenario because they are stiffer. Your mileage may vary, but generally you want open back or ported with Alnico speakers. All that said, you really need to play a gold if you get a chance - they sound magical.
Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see. - Arthur Schopenhauer
The important thing is not to stop questioning. - Albert Einstein
I feel the same about the V30's, and benttop is right the alnico blue and gold are designed for open back cabs. I have played around with a lot of combo's for a 4x12 rock & roll pounder. The most recent setup is scumback speakers. I have 2 H55 and 2 H75 in and 1960b cab. My favorite 4x12 setup ever.
Thanks guys. I spoke with Avatar Speakers today and the guy said that Gold's and Blues work great in a closed back cabs because they give them more bass response which they need therefore making them very balanced. He also recommended a x pattern of the Golds and H1230's. I basically want a very smooth,warm and balanced high gain and clean tone with a tight thumping bottom end. I have also considered the Scumback greenback combo and the Splawn Eminence high wattage greenbacks or Wizard speakers. There are so many choices it's mind boggling. Please help.
Last Edit: Mar 3, 2008 21:28:33 GMT -7 by lucidawake
Post by benttop (Steve) on Mar 3, 2008 13:56:15 GMT -7
Well that would be outside the area of my expertise - if Avatar says it works, I'd go with that recommendation before what I said. But I know I've seen guys here talking about failed experiments in this vein. You might want to try a search and see if you can turn anything up here. Same deal with TGP much as I hate to send anyone there. Lots of opinions on this, I'm sure. You'll want to chat with someone who actually did it.
Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see. - Arthur Schopenhauer
The important thing is not to stop questioning. - Albert Einstein
I have a gold in a cab, and a blue in a combo. Also a G12H30 in a combo. Ive ran the Blue and G12H30 together with my maz Jr pushing them, they work really well together. Same idea as docs V30 and G12H30 mix in the Z beast. The alnico is a great speaker by itself, but with the G12H really sings. I like it a lot. Dave at avatar recommends that combination as well. The gold sounds very similar in that setup too. I find it a bit brighter tho by itself than the blue, making it perfect for the G12H mix. Just my opinion...
Thanks for your opinions guys. Here is the link to the guy playing the Celestion Golds in a closed back Rivera 4x12 through vox, Fender, and Krank amps. Check out the clips and let me know what you think. The only thing is the guys guitar sounds a little clanky but I think it's his action and string gauge.
Last Edit: Mar 3, 2008 14:33:36 GMT -7 by lucidawake
You learn something new everday, if avatar says so I will defer to them. I had always heard that the gold and blue were designed for open cabs. That is one high dollar 4x12.
Without music, life would be a mistake” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
(FROM ME)"I play high gain agressive hard rock but also like very nice clean tones. I am looking for a balanced speaker to put in a 4x12. I am curious if the new Alnico Golds will work well for my heavy style of music in a closed back cab? I ask because the Vintage 30 works great for that style but I want a warmer and less spikey tone."
(FROM DR.DECIBEL AKA CELESTION)"The Gold has much of the Vintage 30 character you like but has more warmth so should be the speaker for you. The ultimate in clean and highgain is the Classic Lead 80 but this has a more neutral sounding cleancompared to the Vintage 30 gritty clean.RegardsThe Doctor
Last Edit: Mar 4, 2008 17:44:14 GMT -7 by lucidawake
Post by benttop (Steve) on Mar 4, 2008 17:54:36 GMT -7
Well if you can afford to load up a 4x12 with them it sounds like the way to go. I know they sound great here. I've also seen a few guys running both G12H and Gold to gain the benefit of the G12H's bottom end and the mids and top end of the Gold.
Geez, I have a 4x12 here... ACK, what am I thinking? That would be eleven-hundred dollars worth of speakers!
Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see. - Arthur Schopenhauer
The important thing is not to stop questioning. - Albert Einstein
Well if you can afford to load up a 4x12 with them it sounds like the way to go. I know they sound great here. I've also seen a few guys running both G12H and Gold to gain the benefit of the G12H's bottom end and the mids and top end of the Gold.
Geez, I have a 4x12 here... ACK, what am I thinking? That would be eleven-hundred dollars worth of speakers!
Yes... But oh so tastey.
I may just end up getting 2 2x12's to save my back.
i used to use V30 a lot and the upper midrange spike can be a bit fatiguing (depends on guitars, effects, amps, etc...). a good alternative i found for that sound with flatter upper-mids and a better bass response would be Eminence Tonker. to me, Tonker's got a smoother treble as well. you might want to give it a listen.
I currently have a V30 in a Z convertible cab and would like to try something else. It sounds good, but I really get sick of the mid spike. I've thought about a Gold or even a Weber Blue Dog. I usually play with the cab back closed just to keep my sound directed toward me and not the rest of the band (defeats the purpose of inears). I'm wondering if a cold would work in a closed back Z.
I just did the same trade as mudskipper. V30 is replaced by the Tonker. Big improvement in tone. My Mazerati is not bright, and the V30 made it seem muffeled. I should have switched that speaker out 3 years ago!
The sound of my guitar and it's harmonics are more present in the Tonker. I haven't cranked it up, but I get a sense that it is eaiser on the ears as well, less harshness and spikeness.
82' Greco LP (59' burst) Martin D-35 Music Man Sterling 4HH Z-verb T-rex Replica Flying Dragon LE#10 06' Pitbull
That's funny because I was actually considering the Tonker quite a bit. It was the most balanced sounding of the Eminence speakers on their websit except for maybe the Legend 1218. I also like the Texas Heat as well. The only problem I found if that The Tonker has recieved horrible reviews on Harmony Central. I know you can't believe everything that you read but it still made me wonder so I apreciate the vote of confidence.
I spoke with the guy who makes the Scumback speakers and he gave me the oposite response. He did not say that Alnico speakers would not work well in a closed back speaker but he did feel that I would be better off with a Ceramic maget for my style of playing which to quote my e-mail sent to him "high gain Modern rock with heavy/crunchy chords and leads but also play very melodically and clean"
Last Edit: Mar 6, 2008 22:25:16 GMT -7 by lucidawake
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