mattp
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by mattp on May 14, 2013 12:25:35 GMT -7
Hey All, I'm new here and am intrigued by the Z 28 but have a few questions for you Z 28 owners: I own an amp from a different company with the same 6V6/12AX7/EF86 channels, yet it sounds exceptionally neutral for all that's going on there. I was excited to try out the EF86 pre-amp, as I have read so much about the harmonic complexity of the tube, but in my current amp...meh...the amp has really sterile cleans, and a thin grind when cranked. Just can't bond with it.
So, I'm looking for an amp that has robust/blooming Fender cleans, good Marshall style break up, and does not sound like a Vox (not my cup of tea). Is this sound in the Z 28? Or is it in another Z amp? The CG sounds like it could be a close second, but I like the rootsy sound of 6V6 tubes more than EL84's. The Remedy is going to be waaaayyy too much amp at 40 watts. Although, it is my favorite of the bunch. Especially after watching all of roknfnrol's videos...
Thanks for your help--lots of great information around here.
Matt
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Post by nmz on May 14, 2013 13:39:55 GMT -7
Not sure how much Marshall is in the amp (never owning a Marshall)but the 6V6 sound is what I was looking for as well and it delivers. The Z-28 has a great tight bottom end, never seems to get flabby, great harmonics, and really gives you a 3-D feel. When I first got mine I was a little underwhelmed, the more I played it I quickly learned that my technique needed improvement and how great it is. I am slowly getting away from Reverb in my base sound now, I use to use a touch of verb in my sound but with this amp I am slowly getting away from it, using it in more specific situations. The biggest thing I noticed right away was how well it actually handles pedals being my first EF86 amp I was shocked, I thought I was going to miss an effects loop. Although, I am going to add a Ghia to the mix soon the Z-28 will never leave.
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Post by doctorice on May 14, 2013 13:43:02 GMT -7
I'm looking for an amp that has robust/blooming Fender cleans, good Marshall style break up, and does not sound like a Vox (not my cup of tea). Is this sound in the Z 28? Welcome, Matt. You've done a nice job describing the Z-28 right there. The Fender bit is more tweed/brownface than blackface. It's a very flexible amp even though it only has three knobs. At the risk of saying something you already know, the "secret sauce" is that the tone knobs are active and add gain in their respective frequency ranges when they're dialed above noon. Speaker(s) are important too. For example, I was using the '28 with an Eminence Red Fang and found the combination was just too much midrange. But I love the '28 through a Z 4x10 with Dr Z's speakers (which are reportedly an Eminence design). I know a lot of the guys are running through various 12" speakers. I'm sure you'll get additional thoughts, but I don't think you'll hear anyone saying the Z-28 isn't pretty much in the zone you're talking about
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Post by "Z" Steve on May 14, 2013 14:00:16 GMT -7
Welcome to the forum Matt. I'm down to two Z's now - the Remedy and the Z28, and the Z28 has been my main go-to amp I must say. The Remedy is tameable with the 20/40 switch AND a Brakelite but you won't get much Fender out of it in my opinion. I use a Celestion 12" Gold or Creamback as well as a 2x10 with a Weber Blue Pup & Silver Ten depending on the venue and the tone I want. I also use my Brakelite to bring it down IF needed depending on the venue. With your Strat, Tele, and especially your Gold Top, you will be able to coax a ton of stellar tones out of a Z28 with minimal pedals (if desired). With Humbuckers it is possible to get close to that "dumbbell" sound. Anyway, I recommend getting the head with different cab options - then you have more options with your next Z head! Welcome, and enjoy your tone journey.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2013 14:10:57 GMT -7
Mike's got it right--people compare the Z-28 to a brown Deluxe; its tone is thick and full with a noticeable upper-mid emphasis, and great breakup even at "low" volumes with the treble and bass controls past 1:00 or so. It's surprisingly loud for a nominally 22-watt amp, and sounds particularly great with a Strat, although you'll love it with just about any guitar. It's also pretty un-fussy about speakers, too, with the exception of the 10" Red Fang, as Mike points out, which just has way too much midrange honk (to my ear) with the '28. I've run mine through the Z 4x10 (awesome!), a 1x12 w/ Gold (ditto), a 1x12 w/Creamback (double ditto) and a 1x12 w/G12H30 (probably my favorite 12 w/ this amp) and they all sound stellar. The ONE complaint I've heard about the '28 from one or two users is that it doesn't have that Vox-y top end "sparkle," but if that's not your cuppa mud then that's probably a GOOD thing. That said, the new V2 Remedy has a master volume that works like a charm--run it at 40 watts but at small club volume, no need for attenuation. So there's that.
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Post by bwc on May 14, 2013 14:12:46 GMT -7
Hey Matt,
Welcome aboard! I (like many others here) have a Carmen ghia and a z-28. I've spent the last 6 mos searching for that marshally thick overdriven sound that you feel.... Not just distortion but aggressive power tube saturation.
I've tried different pedals, gone back an forth between the amps, different speakers, and different cabs. The most significant change I've found so far was switching from a combo to a z-best cabinet.
FYI I tried the 1x10 ramrod, and ran the following through my 1x12 ghia combo cab with the z-28.... Wgs reaper, wgs et65, celestion blue, vintage 30. V30 was close, but lacked the full bass response of the z-best.
I'm currently borrowing a z-best cabinet from Bryan, another forum member and its loaded with heritage greenbacks. It sounds KILLER with being pushed by the Timmy. It's exactly what I've been searching for. So is 3-3-3 on the amp with no Timmy, but impractical for live use. Also, by pushing the amp with a boost, you can turn it off and have a great cleanish base tone to work with.
I'm wondering if you've considered a head and cab, or if you're a combo guy?
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Post by bwc on May 14, 2013 14:23:04 GMT -7
Ill also add that I've had a 4x10 cab and it sounded excellent with the z-28. Was about 15 minutes away from ordering another but ended up borrowing the zbest. Both are great with the amp
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mattp
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by mattp on May 14, 2013 14:47:24 GMT -7
The Z-28 has a great tight bottom end, never seems to get flabby, great harmonics, and really gives you a 3-D feel. When I first got mine I was a little underwhelmed, the more I played it I quickly learned that my technique needed improvement and how great it is. Awesome--great harmonics and 3-D feel are what I'm expecting. But, when you say "underwhelmed" is it that the tonal characteristics didn't just jump out at you initially? That's how I have felt about my current set up; my Blues Jr's cleans are definitely more complex and inviting. I was scratching my head wondering when the boutique tone was going to show up. Thanks for all the responses--you guys have helped narrow some tough choices.
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Post by Pete aka shouldb on May 14, 2013 15:14:26 GMT -7
^^^^ Fours things Matt: 1. Welcome to the forum!! 2. The Z28 will KILL a Blues Junior - I know, I sold one to buy a Z28, but it will show up any sloppy technique with that EF86 front end! It has made me a MUCH better player 3. Remedy has a 20W setting (Z28 is 22W), and a new Remedy has a really superb MV - the Z28 doesn't (I had one fitted elsewhere once it was out of warranty as I'm not very happy with click style attenuators) 4. Both the Z28 and the Remedy give that glorious rootsy 6V6 tone (I like that much better than EL84s too), and WONDERFUL 3D touch sensitivity. I own and love both amps, so not pushing you either way, but if you say the Remedy would be your first choice, then be aware that at 20W setting it's no louder than a Z28 and it has the MV..... oh and the EQ Bypass mod, assuming you buy a new model. Enjoy!
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Post by nmz on May 14, 2013 15:26:39 GMT -7
I do not have a Z dealer near me so I took a jump and bought it prior to playing it. What you describe is what I was looking for as well. When I pulled it out of the box and plugged it in I tried to dial in it to what I was using prior, DRRI, Supersonic, HR Deville, etc. This was before I explored the tone knobs but after that discovery WOW! It has been my go to amp for the last year and I do not see myself replacing it. It ended my amp GAS it will be my main amp for the foreseeable future.
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Post by Pete aka shouldb on May 14, 2013 15:32:52 GMT -7
^^^ Yeah, excellent point!! Those Tone controls are dual purpose, so be very aware of that, or it could be a surprise! Up to noon, they are traditional tone controls; but after noon they start adding gain, not tone! VERY VERY clever circuitry which throws a lot of people, as there are only 3 knobs, yet tons of versatility
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mattp
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by mattp on May 14, 2013 17:14:11 GMT -7
Wow, again, thanks so much for the insight. Does the amp need to be up in volume to get to the sweet spot, or does it retain its tonal qualities at lower volumes well? I'm assuming I'll use an attenuator to tame it a bit anyways. Oh, I see its tube rectified--what do you guys think about that vs solid state rectified? Does it "feel" easier to play? My current 6V6/ef86 seems very rigid and unforgiving. It may just be the design?
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Post by Christopher on May 14, 2013 18:15:36 GMT -7
Welcome. The '28 is rectified and has a nice sag when it's cooking. You don't need it wide open to find gain/hair. I ran it at a house gig once with the V at 8 o'clock and the T & B around 2 and it sang. There was hair if I dug or if I was lighter in attack I had a crisp clean. This amp is very responsive to what you put into it. The EF86 is a different character than the 12AX7, too. It has a timbre of break up that's crisp and yet can be full when hit hard. As others have mentioned a boost to goose it is usually all you need if you want a live rig. Any OD you put in front will add another color to the palette. The Ghia is more bubbly sounding to my ears and not as neutral with 'bucker equipped guitars. The tonestack and preamp are different on the Ghia though and hence that's why it's in the stable. It's unique unto itself. The Judah isn't a bad amp as I'm reading your signature area. It's not what the '28 is about though for sure. I've played a Judah and it was very "mehh" as you stated. I was taken aback considering how much I dug the Cub 15r I had played. That amp wasn't similar at all to my ears. Hope this helps and enjoy the board. Unlike most head/cab swaps I do combo cab swaps and have paired my '28 with a 1x10 Gold, a Ragin Cajun, the RF, and the G12H30. The Fang was the only offender and it was just middy. let your ears guide you.
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Post by Pete aka shouldb on May 15, 2013 0:39:16 GMT -7
^^^
Amen on the Red Fang - did not like it at all with the Z28. I used a Weber Blue Pup Ceramic when I had it as a 1x10 combo, and now play it through a Celestion G12 65 - both of which sound great!
As Christopher says, you can get some good hair on the notes by pushing the T&B past noon, and keeping V below noon, or the other way around with slightly different tonal character. Also, when using a BL, don't use 4 clicks - kills the mojo. 1 and 2 clicks are fine, and 3 is borderline. BTW, boot her up with the BL at say 3 clicks, set you tone to suit, and then reduce the clicks as you need more volume. MUCH more pleasing to the ears this way - it's a sound perception thing which works!
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Post by eliot1025 on May 18, 2013 5:05:00 GMT -7
Welcome! There's good advice in this thread - Keep the Z attenuators to one or two clicks, experiment with the controls etc. The 28 does get a nice Marshally breakup when pushed. The cleans are not Voxy or Marshally but they're also not in the Fender blackface or tweed camp. I'm not familiar with the Fender brownface tones. My experience with the crunch tones is that you have to push the amp a bit. That's normal. The crunch isn't as Marshally as the Remedy but then the Remedy was designed to sound Marshally. I think this amp is a good choice for you; the cleans are not Marshally but the crunch is.
To stay as far from the classic Vox sound as possible avoid the following speakers: Celestion Blue, Celestion Gold, both types of Weber Blue Dog, both types of Weber Blue Pup. Nothing wrong with that sound but they are part of the recipe for that Vox-flavored tone. Also avoid the Weber 12F150 - it's terrible with this amp (but great with blackface-style amps).
FWIW, the Doc loves the Greenback with the 28. I haven't heard it. I like the 12" Tone Tubby ceramic but don't love it. I hated the Z 10's that came with my 28; they were boxy and honky with a big mid-range hump. Z recognizes their heavy mid-range sound so they offer an upgrade. Ask Z what it is or maybe someone else here remembers. From your description I'd go with a Greenback (the common one), the Tone Tubby (pricey) or a G12H30. Be sure to break them in before judging them.
The cab will make a big difference. The Z-Best is really great but it's 2x12s, expensive and weighty. I used a Port City Wave 1x12 with the 28, a KT45 and a Route 66. It's a great-sounding cab, lightweight, resonant and not expensive. The Z-Best and all Port City cabs are ported closed back cabs. Port City has a reputation for fantastic cabs. Open cabs are a whole different animal (I love them).
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Post by freddieg on May 18, 2013 6:19:05 GMT -7
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tdap
New Member
Posts: 43
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Post by tdap on May 18, 2013 7:37:56 GMT -7
Yeah, dude, the z28 is one of my favorite Z amps. I've rocked the old school RX model and the Galaxie. The Z28 has such a great overall sound. It sounds smooth and clean when you zero out the bass and treble, crank the volume and its super clean. You can put everything at 12 o' clock and then it becomes a great platform for a killer overdrive/fuzz pedal. It's fun to crank the treble and kill the bass, frikkin' "cut throat rock and roll tone". I could go on and on about the tones this amp can recreate.
I play a tele, casino and a sg through that bad boy with one 10" 8 ohm speaker,or I'll use a y cable and go for 4 ohms and that's when it tightens up and becomes focused. This amp cleans up great when using your guitar volume as the master. You can really play it soft and then dig right into it, a very dynamic amp. They all sound great and it's an amp totally worth rocking out. GET SOME!
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Post by Buzz Fretwear (Ignatius) on Jan 22, 2015 8:41:40 GMT -7
Old thread bump alert. Frankie - this is just outstanding. Don't know if you'll see this but that is some mighty tasty playing. Very, very nice!
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