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Post by mickieblue on Oct 17, 2012 14:12:47 GMT -7
Hi all,
I'm hoping to get some tips and guidance to get my rig working well together. I have owned a Maz 38 Nr for several years and have always been trying different settings but never been fully happy. Over the years I have built up a nice collection of equipment with the latest edition being a Z-verb but after rehearsal this week was quite disappointed that I couldn't get a nice working tone. I currently have a Maz 38 NR, Dr Z 2x10 cab with currently closed back with stock speakers and a zverb. My pedal board consists of Vox wah - Boss Tu2 - Wampler Hotwired overdrive - xotic custom shop ac overdrive in this order. Then in the fx loop I have ernie ball volume pedal - way huge aqua puss delay - boss dd3 in this order. My main guitar is a Fender Clapton Strat. On paper this is all pretty good equipment and when I have tried these individually before buying they sounded great, I just can't seem to get them to work together in my rig. I've tried the zverb in both the loop and in the front and I get quite a loud buzz (I've read about a ground loop, how do I do this??). It's not practical for me to place the verb away from the head as some posts have suggested as my band don't play on large stages where space is a luxury therefore I need to stack the rig up.
Ideally I would like to get a much warmer, smoother tone from the set up. It is currently very harsh and cutting and also extremely loud! The Clapton strat is partly to blame for the loudness as it is very loud compared to other guitars.
I'm quite happy to experiment with any suggestions, different orders for the pedals, where should I put the verb, would making my cab an open back help? Settings, etc. Ideally I don't want to spend much more money but would speakers or tube changes make a great difference for this.
Thanks in advance for any help.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2012 16:03:59 GMT -7
I always started with setting borrowed from BW. It will still be loud, but not too bad. FWIW, BW has commented that the amp tends to get more bottom as the master is increased. You can always adjust the Master lower if need be. You just might lose a little bottom end. Adjust the tone knobs to taste from here. try these settings and see how they sound. If you still don't like it try taking the back off of the speaker cab. Open it right up. W/the back cover on the sound might be too beam like. Tubes and speaker choice make a difference in how the amp will sound and perform. Give these other things a try and see what you think. If not happy come back and you will surely have more options to consider from other posts. Good luck.
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Post by Ryan (shorty) on Oct 17, 2012 18:49:14 GMT -7
What cables are you using?
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Post by mickieblue on Oct 18, 2012 14:33:28 GMT -7
I have a mix of planet waves and klotz la grange cables. Thanks for the settings,I have tried these before but never tried the open back so may give that a try. I believe the head is a 2008 edition and I don't think the tubes have ever been changed as I got it second hand about 2 and half years ago. They aren't dying in volume or making a high pitched noise so I'm guessing these are still ok or am I wrong? I normally run the volume at about 2 and master around 8.5/9.5 depending on venue. Would an air brake create a warmer tone because I can push volume more or not? Thanks
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2012 21:14:38 GMT -7
Yeah, try taking the back off the cab like you said. If that don't work I would highly recommend a full retube.
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Post by mickieblue on Oct 19, 2012 2:06:01 GMT -7
Thanks. Are there any particular tubes that you would recommend to make it warmer sounding? Would speakers also make a difference?
Could anyone explain what the ground lift is? Is it like a surge protector that I put on the end of the plug for one device?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2012 12:57:19 GMT -7
I'm not sure what the guys are using in their Maz 38s these days for output tubes. Just make sure they are matched and in proper spec.. If they are advertsied for their early distortion or late distortion they are not in proper spec.. Preamp tubes are very important as well. You could check with the Z shop to see what tubes they are shipping amps with. They are gonna' give you a great sound. Doc does his home work.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2012 13:04:01 GMT -7
You might want to wait for a tube change to see if that is enough to get you where you want tone wise before changing speakers. It doesn't hurt to talk about options though. What speaker is in there now? A Celestion Gold might be good for you. Great vintage tone. Pricey. Celestion Anninversary G12H30 is a great speaker. Great tone at a lower cost.
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Post by Matt on Oct 19, 2012 13:46:27 GMT -7
I own a Maz 38 NR and when I tried to use the FX loop it sounded awful. I would start there. Either don't use the loop or make sure the first thing the loop send hits is a good buffer. I think that will make a huge difference. I would also look into using a good buffer at the very front of the chain so that your pedals and cables aren't sucking any tone (I actually use a buffer at the very front and very end of my chain to make up for longer cable runs and lots of pedals). It worked for me and it's a relatively cheap and easy fix if it is indeed the problem.
Good luck!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2012 15:50:16 GMT -7
That boss dd3 probably has a decent buffer, imho. The loud buzz from the z verb just might be the nature of the beast. Not that they are crazy loud, but I've seen concerns on the the forum here about it. Reverb like that will make some noise. That brings up tubes again. When was the last time new tubes were installed in the Z verb?
I'm not sure what you mean by a ground loop. Well, I do know what you mean, but you shouldn't have to lift the ground on anything as this is unsafe. Just make sure all your gear is plugged into the same outlet. Get a good power strip and plug into that if you have too.
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Post by mickieblue on Oct 20, 2012 14:55:15 GMT -7
They are Dr Z special designs. The zverb is only a week old so wouldn't have thought the tube need changing in that yet. I will try things out. I tried it last night with open back and that did change sound but again didn't have a great amount of time to really play its the settings. I since found out what a ground lift was and agree that sounds dangerous so wont be attempting that. The fx loop has always been ok on mine. However I did notice last night that the aqua puss sucks a lot of the highs, this was a new addition to the board as well.
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Post by mazmaster on Oct 20, 2012 18:47:24 GMT -7
The settings shown here will be harsh, IMO. I find you need to keep Volume at or below 12:00, as the high end gets progressively more aggressive beyond that point, and then use Master to set level. (Some folks max out the master and being up Volume to hit the right level from there.) Treble needs to be in the 9:00-10:30 range and then use Cut to dial in desired high end. I find you can even max out the Cut with Treble low enough and that will add fullness and drive to OD pedals. Mid is good in the 12:00-1:30 range and Bass to taste.
Speakers are key. IMO, V30s and G12H30s are not the right choice if you're looking for warmth and smoothness. You need something like G12-65s or the WGS Blackhawk HP. Lastly, try some NOS GE long-plates in the preamp. Very warm and smooth. If you don't want to spend the bucks, get some JJs from Doug's Tubes.
Good luck!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2012 20:23:42 GMT -7
They are Dr Z special designs. The zverb is only a week old so wouldn't have thought the tube need changing in that yet. I will try things out. I tried it last night with open back and that did change sound but again didn't have a great amount of time to really play its the settings. I since found out what a ground lift was and agree that sounds dangerous so wont be attempting that. The fx loop has always been ok on mine. However I did notice last night that the aqua puss sucks a lot of the highs, this was a new addition to the board as well. Make sure all the tubes are properly seated in the Z Verb. I never used a Z verb, but my Maz 38 had reverb. First time I plugged the amp in all I got was terrible buzz and feedback. It ended up being the RCA plugs/cables had to be moved around, repositioned, and situated differently. After I found the sweet spot for the cables I never had another problem with the amp. New production tubes were problematic at times, but not the amp.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2012 20:28:03 GMT -7
The settings shown here will be harsh, IMO. Settings are definitely 'season to taste'. Those pictured settings belong to Buddy Whittington. Most definitely not harsh when he uses 'em. When I first got my Maz 38 they were a good starting point. Not everyone will like the preamp pegged like that. Worked well for me though. Before I saw Buddy's settings I was pegging the master and using the pre for volume control. Neither setting is wrong. You just have to play around a bit to find what works for your tastes.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2012 22:21:45 GMT -7
Speakers are key. IMO, V30s and G12H30s are not the right choice if you're looking for warmth and smoothness. You need something like G12-65s or the WGS Blackhawk HP. Lastly, try some NOS GE long-plates in the preamp. Very warm and smooth. If you don't want to spend the bucks, get some JJs from Doug's Tubes. Good luck! I agree speakers are key. I would try to adress the harshness one step at a time though. If you go making a bunch of changes all at once you won't know which change addressed the problem. You want to be a bit scientific about the process, jmho.
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Post by bluzman on Oct 21, 2012 9:26:01 GMT -7
Keep the Z-Verb in front of, to the side or behind the rig. The buzz will go away... I use a ground lift plug and it was recommended by a great source.
If you have a 12AX7LPS for the Phase Inverter, replace it with a quality lower gain balanced, NOS 12AX7. I found the LPS to bring a little more of the highs into the mix especially with my Teles.
Also go to the Tubes forum and you may want to move a few tubes around and pick up suggestions for using different tubes in certain places.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2012 16:26:46 GMT -7
Keep the Z-Verb in front of, to the side or behind the rig. The buzz will go away... I use a ground lift plug and it was recommended by a great source. Great ideas. Thanks for correcting me concerning the ground lift.
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Post by mazmaster on Oct 22, 2012 20:59:19 GMT -7
The settings shown here will be harsh, IMO. Settings are definitely 'season to taste'. Those pictured settings belong to Buddy Whittington. Most definitely not harsh when he uses 'em. When I first got my Maz 38 they were a good starting point. Not everyone will like the preamp pegged like that. Worked well for me though. Before I saw Buddy's settings I was pegging the master and using the pre for volume control. Neither setting is wrong. You just have to play around a bit to find what works for your tastes. Wow, I'm surprised. Those settings are screaming loud and will obviously not be clean, so cleans must be roll-the-guitar-volume achieved. I'm surprised these aren't brutally bright and harsh, even with Cut down a bit. Must be the power amp compression taming the highs and smoothing things out. Will have to try these with my 18.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2012 22:22:25 GMT -7
Settings are definitely 'season to taste'. Those pictured settings belong to Buddy Whittington. Most definitely not harsh when he uses 'em. When I first got my Maz 38 they were a good starting point. Not everyone will like the preamp pegged like that. Worked well for me though. Before I saw Buddy's settings I was pegging the master and using the pre for volume control. Neither setting is wrong. You just have to play around a bit to find what works for your tastes. Wow, I'm surprised. Those settings are screaming loud and will obviously not be clean, so cleans must be roll-the-guitar-volume achieved. I'm surprised these aren't brutally bright and harsh, even with Cut down a bit. Must be the power amp compression taming the highs and smoothing things out. Will have to try these with my 18. Someone just posted some Maz 18 setting that Buddy recently used at a show here in the Lounge. I didn't look real close, but best I could tell they looked very similar to his Maz 38 settings. Settings are so personal. What works for one person may be way off the mark for someone else. Use your ear. And you are right about the guitar volume. That was one of the things I preffered about these settings. It seems like a lot of guys tend to run the preamp a bit lower on the Maz 18. i was kind of surprised to see Buddy had the preamp pegged on his Maz 18. I guess it was a surprise because Buddy has a way of making everything sound so clear and clean. He has phenominal touch.
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Post by roadweary on Oct 24, 2012 10:38:20 GMT -7
Disconnect EVERYTHING, get a good clean platform tone (just to start off), then add the ODs and get good tones using them, together and separately (if you stack). The time based effects will have to work according to taste, I'd put them in the mix last.
I like JJ 84s myself, with a Telefunken in the 1st 12AX7 and more JJs in the other positions. But this is all very subject to taste.
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Post by mickieblue on Nov 2, 2012 10:13:42 GMT -7
Thanks for all the advice. I gigged last week with the open back cab and did seem better, much less of a focused sound which I preferred. Got another gig tonight and a bit of time to play around with it before doors open so will try some different ideas.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2012 14:13:10 GMT -7
This is good to hear.
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