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Post by dei305 on Jun 9, 2007 9:50:39 GMT -7
Hi All, I have an ES-135 that has the stock 3x3, Screw-in Bushings, Plastic Keystone, Nickel. "Gibson Deluxe" tuners. They are not getting the job done. I put a set of Grover Deluxe tuners on my 89 LP and they work fine. I want to find the best performance with the identical look and fit. I am just wonder what is working best for you ? Should I consider another set of Grover Deluxe, Schaller, or Gotoh? Many thanks for your input. Rick
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Post by Hohn on Jun 9, 2007 11:07:34 GMT -7
Both the Grover and Gotoh keystone style tuners are great, but the Grovers allow the screw-in bushing, while the Gotohs are press-fit: Check here: www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_solid_peghead_tuners/Grover_Keystone-knob_Tuners.html Are you set on another set of Keystones? There are improvements to be had with a different style tuner, imo. The kidney bean Grover Rotomatics are my favorite for a 3+3 headstock that has the room. I've always been intrigued by the 40:1 Steinbergers, but I've heard of installation issues, and I certainly would try them on a much cheaper guitar before I installed them on a Lester. It's too bad Waverly doesn't make electric guitar tuners-- their acoustic tuners are AWESOME. Anyway, I think the main thing to remember is to stay away from "bargain" tuners, as any of the real brand ones from Gotoh, Grover, and Schaller would work very well. Justin
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Post by Jan on Jun 9, 2007 11:52:59 GMT -7
I have never liked the Greens. They both look and feel cheap to me, especially on an expensive Gibson. Ditto what Hohn said. "bargain" is not a mental image I want to associate with a fine Gibson. Grovers do it for me.
I must say though that the Schallers on my 60th Aniversary Strat are much nicer than I remember Fenders from the 70s were.
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Post by skydog958 on Jun 10, 2007 17:39:34 GMT -7
Ditto on the Steinberger curiousity. They look really nice on a Firebird headstock but I would not want to mess with mine. I have the "kidney bean" Gover's on my Les Paul, and I don't like them. They feel sloppy. Maybe they just need to be tuned up? I had them around because the previous owner of my H-535 replaced them with Sperzel locking tuners (which I surprisingly like alot, they're on my Zion too). I will replace them someday with locking Grovers, because I love the look. Modified to clarify which guitar I was talking about.
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Post by billyguitar on Jun 10, 2007 19:32:57 GMT -7
I've never had a problem with any stock tuner on any guitar. Functionally they all get it done. I've seen too many guys think their tuning problems can be cured by swapping tuners. If there's a problem it's the nut not the tuners. Other guys think heavier grover type tuners add sustain. I don't go for that either. If it's just cosmetic issues then that's fair enough, providing you don't have to drill new holes.
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Post by Jan on Jun 11, 2007 13:04:13 GMT -7
I never thought about more sustain... that's kind of funny. My bias is simple. I have had a non trivial amount of "vintage tulips" lock up on me and nary a squeak out of a Grover keystone. And yes, the vintage with thin shafts and plastic knobs just look cheap to me.
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Post by billyguitar on Jun 11, 2007 15:22:10 GMT -7
Looks are important too so if you don't mind the hassle someone may give you if you want to sell it the go for it. I did the grover thing too and like them a lot. There is a school of thought that part of the vintage sound is the light weight tuners like on a Fender. I've had a fair number of Gibsonds with the tulip tuners and never had any problems. I've never heard of them locking up so that's something I've learned about today. About tuners in general, I've got some guitars that are almost 100 years old with lots of play wear and the only one that shows any real tuner wear is a prewar Ric electro spanish guitar. It's just like the bakelite steels only with a fretted neck for normal guitar playing. Those tuners really have a lot of wear and feel loose and sloppy but even they will tune and stay in tune. I don't know what brand those tuners are but they were poor quality from the get go. Much lower quality than the standard Klusons from the same era. My prewar Gibsons with the Klusons work great until the plastc goes but even then, new buttons and they're ready for another 50 years.
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Remco
Junior Member
Posts: 80
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Post by Remco on Jun 18, 2007 9:59:56 GMT -7
My '82 Les Paul still has the original tuners, working just fine. Recently I bought a Gretsch 6116 Power Tenny, which has some upgraded features (TV Jones pick-ups, pinned bridge, strap locks and Sperzel locking tuners). This was the first time using locking tuners for me, and I'm sold. It's just great. It cuts stringing time in half and it's way easier to do. I am so impressed with these tuners that I'm putting them on all my guitars. They'te that good.
When I got the Gretsch the shop gave me a syringe of Nut Sauce lubricant, to keep the Bigsby well behaved. Works great. I then used some on the LP this weekend. Fantastic! What a difference. The guitar, with a fresh set of strings, needed NO re-tuning in between songs. That's never happened to me before. I tend to bash the strings quite hard with a 3 mm Dunlop Stubby and bend quite violently, so my guitars tend to go 'off' a little bit. No big deal, but to have the thing stay perfectly in tune all night was just great. I highly recommend it (Nut Sauce) to all you benders out there.
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Post by billyguitar on Jun 18, 2007 14:36:42 GMT -7
My Lentz with stock Fender style tuners really holds it's tune. I can take it out of the gig 3 or 4 days after a gig and it's still in tune. That Nut Sauce is also good on the bridge under the strings.
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Post by skydog958 on Jun 18, 2007 15:09:40 GMT -7
Edited my earlier post because the tuners are Sperzels, not Schallers. I don't know why I keep mixing them up.
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Post by Hohn on Jun 20, 2007 20:16:16 GMT -7
If the Sperzels were just the tiny bit finer ratio, they'd be the ultimate tuner, imo. I love them, but it could be even better!
JMO
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Post by janinedoubly on Jun 23, 2007 8:36:02 GMT -7
Just for the record. Grover is no longer made in the USA, Ping owns the name and they are now made in Korea, just like the stock Pings. They are not bad quality, but the old addage of Grovers are the best, is long gone. Decent tuner, but not what they used to be. IMO, Gotoh is making the best, most consistent tuners out there right now. Even their cheapos are good. But for ultimate smoothness, the Gotoh 510 is the best tuner ever. The new open back Sperzels that Collings is using on their LP guitars are pretty cool, for a light weight vintage style tuner. And Gotoh's locking Kluson copies are awesome. Check out Allparts and you'll find all sorts of Gotoh models that are direct replacements for a variety of guitars. No sense in modifying your guitar if you don't have to.
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Post by Rik on Jun 23, 2007 18:38:33 GMT -7
Glad I read this. I have a LP Studio and love the tone and the way it plays but it will not stay in tune to save my life. Guess I will make this my next project.
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Post by Jan on Jun 25, 2007 0:00:51 GMT -7
janinedoubly, thanks for the update. I did not know that. And man, that is a crying shame too.
billyguitar, all of the ones I had go bad were from the early '60s and it occurs to me that they may have not all been the same manufacturer. I just remember they had what I called the Gibson "Green Key" look.
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