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Post by JChance on May 27, 2007 12:31:15 GMT -7
Did a couple of gigs with the new Dimarzio's in my banger Legacy this weekend, and I have to say that I'm pretty darn impressed. I used to have a similar set of these in a 3 pickup Valley Arts Tele. They were the Seymour Duncan versions. I think they were called "Vintage Stacks." Basically the concept is to wind an extra coil over the first coil in a single coil pickup to make it noiseless. And I guess they under-wind both coils to get the output and tone of an SC, while having the noiseless benefit of a Humbucker. Cool concept, but I could never really get along with the Duncans I had before. They had the right idea, but I always thought they were still wound too hot. A little bit too much of the humbucker character was in there (which might be a cool thing if you dig that sort of thing.) I've just always been a vintage/lower-output kind of guy, so the Duncan Stacks eventually had to go. These DiMarzios, however, I think are on the right track. I was able to get really convincing vintage Strat tones, and they are dead quiet. Plenty of quck & chime in positions 2 & 4. The Bridge pickup (the Area '61), sounded especially good on lead tones with the tone rolled off a bit. Overall, a very well-balanced set of pickups. For pure tone...No, they don't sound as authentic as the Fralins. To my ears they basically sound like a vintage pickup with a touch more bass. But the extra bass is tight & focused, so it's more like a "modern" interpretation of the old sound, if that makes sense. Moral of the story is..... if you are dead-set on having a noiseless pickup AND want true & authentic vintage tone, then you'll probably want to invest in a set of Kinmans or similar... However, those are big $$$, and I think you'd do absolutely fine by going with the some of the DiMarzio "Virtual Vintage" series. I've got the Virtual PAF's in my Peavey HP Signature, and they are WONDERFUL. These Strat pickups in the Legacy are definitely more than satisfactory in terms of tone quality. My next step will be to try the Virtual Tele pickups. If they sound as good as the Strat versions, with the added bonus of being noise-free, then they'd certainly be a welcome addition that would come in quite handy for any gigging player. J
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Post by hdahs143 on May 27, 2007 15:24:12 GMT -7
Have the Area 61 in the neck, and the Heavy Blues 2 in the bridge of my strat, and it is my favorite guitar with my Stingray. Great sounding pickups. Very down to the the last detail "Stratty" sound with no noise.
Had the Virtual T in my Tele for several years and liked it alot. Pulled it to try the Duncan Antiquity. The Duncan sounded a little better, but doesn't have enough output.
I'm going to try the Area T bridge, or the Virtual Hot T. Both are hotter than the Virtual T I had.
Harold
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Post by tele1962 on May 27, 2007 22:47:44 GMT -7
The one thing I'd like to defend old Strats on is that despite the PU's being a bit ratty and never "noiseless"...the sound was amazing, and it was deal you made with the devil to trade the inherrent noise factor for sheer stratocaster tones. If you can both ( noiseless features and superior Fender Strat tone) flawlessly, then absolutely do it, but I have seen it happen so very seldom.
Mr Chance, someday my friend , I get a feeling you will own a vintage strat, and you'll be an ambassador for this type of thinking! Not too long ago, just after I'd seen him live...Mark Knopfler was saying the same thing. ( He's a great gearhead, btw) "Yes, there's a sacrifice one makes...these things arent perfect...but the reward comes in different ways...I can't get anything to sound just like the old ones" He went on to say that it was much the same with amplifiers, and that's why the 1958 Vox AC-15 was back in the studio with him.
I've believed this for so many years, but it just sounds more ligitimate coming from someone of better renown.
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Post by Buzz Fretwear (Ignatius) on May 30, 2007 8:32:03 GMT -7
tele1962, please don't interpret this as a response to your post or opinion, but I just have to chime in on this thread and say that I've seen a lot of similar responses on other boards (i.e., TDPRI) saying something to the effect of "just learn to put up with the noise, it's worth it for the better tone of authentic single coils". I'm not advocating that noiseless pickups will ever sound as good as true single coils, but in some venues the power issues are such that the noise is very audible - to the point where it's unprofessional to have the guitar humming away like a junior high school garage band. I'm willing to compromise 10% of my tone if it makes the band appear more professional and it prevents dirty looks from club owners and patrons. To them, they don't care whether it's a single coil guitar making the noise. They just hear a racket and blame "the band" for it.
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Post by iggs on May 30, 2007 9:31:22 GMT -7
Yup ... love DiMarzios in my Strat, Virtual Vintage Solo (bridge), Area 61 (middle) and Area 58 (neck) ... they sound awesome and are very quiet. Most of the stuff I play is high-gain so noiseless is a absolute must for me.
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Post by JChance on May 30, 2007 11:33:46 GMT -7
The one thing I'd like to defend old Strats on is that despite the PU's being a bit ratty and never "noiseless"...the sound was amazing, and it was deal you made with the devil to trade the inherrent noise factor for sheer stratocaster tones. If you can both ( noiseless features and superior Fender Strat tone) flawlessly, then absolutely do it, but I have seen it happen so very seldom. Mr Chance, someday my friend , I get a feeling you will own a vintage strat, and you'll be an ambassador for this type of thinking! Not too long ago, just after I'd seen him live...Mark Knopfler was saying the same thing. ( He's a great gearhead, btw) "Yes, there's a sacrifice one makes...these things arent perfect...but the reward comes in different ways...I can't get anything to sound just like the old ones" He went on to say that it was much the same with amplifiers, and that's why the 1958 Vox AC-15 was back in the studio with him. I've believed this for so many years, but it just sounds more ligitimate coming from someone of better renown. Been around vintage Strats, Teles, Les Pauls & the like all my life, including my dad (and formerly Don Felder's) '58 Strat. So yup, I'm perfectly aware of what an old one sounds like... Just saying that the DiMarzio's do a good job of replacating what you think of as "Strat tone" while keeping the noise away. J
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Post by jwr on May 30, 2007 12:06:42 GMT -7
I've heard some of the Area technology pickup's and they sound really good. I actually liked them better than my Kinmans in some regards. As for the vintage thing, not many of us mere mortals can afford a vintage strat.
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Post by tele1962 on Jun 16, 2007 22:13:27 GMT -7
I played in a renovated WW2 airport hangar once years ago, and the noise and 60 cycle was really bad! But it affected everything from effects to PA to lights, and PU's weren't going to matter. Aside from that venue, I've never played any place nasty enough to make "Noisless" compulsary. Fenders and single coil PU's to me have always had inherrent hum. I thoght it was part of the wonderful deal!
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Post by tele1962 on Jun 16, 2007 22:21:51 GMT -7
"to the point where it's unprofessional to have the guitar humming away like a junior high school garage band."
Like I said, a guy like Knopfler has been using original old equipment along with boutique or custom made gear both live and in the studio for years. I've heard some extra hum in concert (live and recorded live) when he drags an oldie out from time to time For some reason he doesn't even talk about it or worry about it, it seems. And to me Mark is reasonably professional.
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Post by quinto on Jun 16, 2007 23:36:28 GMT -7
I played in a renovated WW2 airport hangar once years ago, and the noise and 60 cycle was really bad! But it affected everything from effects to PA to lights, and PU's weren't going to matter. Aside from that venue, I've never played any place nasty enough to make "Noisless" compulsary. Fenders and single coil PU's to me have always had inherrent hum. I thoght it was part of the wonderful deal! I agree. The "noiseless" pups never sound quite right to me. For me, there is no substitute for a real single coil in a Strat.
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Post by jimfla on Jun 17, 2007 8:34:28 GMT -7
I just put a Dimarzio Virtual Vintage Hot Tele bridge in my Tele and was surprised at how good it sounds. I had tried the Lace Holy Grails and the Duncan stacks in my Strat and didn't like them. The Virtual Vintage has some chime to it. I did have to set the pickup closer to the strings than I normally do.
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Post by Buzz Fretwear (Ignatius) on Jun 17, 2007 12:32:52 GMT -7
"to the point where it's unprofessional to have the guitar humming away like a junior high school garage band." Like I said, a guy like Knopfler has been using original old equipment along with boutique or custom made gear both live and in the studio for years. I've heard some extra hum in concert (live and recorded live) when he drags an oldie out from time to time For some reason he doesn't even talk about it or worry about it, it seems. And to me Mark is reasonably professional. That's not really a fair comparison. If Mark Knopfler wasn't "Mark Knopfler" and was playing in a weekend warrior cover band in clubs that have bad power sources and the hum was making his band sound unprofessional, he'd get the same dirty looks as I would. Nor was I insinuating that Mark Knopfler is unprofessional, for crying out loud.
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Post by tele1962 on Jun 25, 2007 17:21:55 GMT -7
Well, I have played old clubs with bad power sources and extra 60 cycle. And so has he. The difference is because he is who he is, his statements, although similar to my humble ones concerning original equipment, would bear more credibility.
With clubs, if there are constant complaints about power, and if the venue uses a lot of live bands, particularly good ones...they'll fix the source. If no one complains or if it's just a lousy venue with bad bands, who cares? Certainly not the club owner. He's making his $$ selling beer and JD...his least concern is some goofy guitar player.
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Post by DaSkip on Jun 25, 2007 18:42:20 GMT -7
With all due respect to you Curt.
We are currently exploring Mars. I'm tired of the 60 Hz hum.
Just sayin'
Skip :onlylove4myhoustonbrother:
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Post by DaSkip on Jun 25, 2007 18:44:41 GMT -7
Sorry Curt the way I typed the last post went all and it wasn't meant to.
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Post by jwr on Jun 25, 2007 19:04:17 GMT -7
Well, the good news is that with the new Surh SSC Backplate System we can now use basically any pickup we choose. New or vintage if noise is a problem we can easily get rid of it.
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Post by tele1962 on Jun 26, 2007 20:20:11 GMT -7
Well there ya go then. Everyone's happy?
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Post by jwr on Jun 26, 2007 20:56:50 GMT -7
Boy, I hope so. The reports are that it doesn't change the tone of the pickup, I'll find out for myself once my Grosh Retro Classic shows up. I'm gonna put a SSC in it and give it a whirl. If I like it and it does what it claims to do, then vintage pickups could be on the menu. It might put the noiseless VS. standard single argument to bed once and for all. One can only hope.
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Post by nitehawk55 on Jun 27, 2007 21:06:06 GMT -7
With all due respect to you Curt. We are currently exploring Mars. I'm tired of the 60 Hz hum. Just sayin' Skip :onlylove4myhoustonbrother: Um , wrong guy Skip ,that's tele1962 not tele62 . I believe you are on Mars ;D
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Post by tele1962 on Jun 28, 2007 15:40:00 GMT -7
Skip, get down offa that round red thing before you hurt yourself!
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Post by DaSkip on Jun 28, 2007 16:11:16 GMT -7
Dang, I gotta quit watching the Discovery Channel. The Suhr SSC is very cool, but you have to change your middle pickup from a reverse wound to a normal wound like the neck and bridge. The SSC acts as the reverse wound pup.
I'm just gonna go with the Area 58 and 61 route. Sorry about the mix up. ;D
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Post by Curt on Jun 29, 2007 11:18:32 GMT -7
No worries Bro Been done alot 'round here............... Perhaps Lefty will jes swap my handle to "Curt"
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Post by terlinguart on Jun 29, 2007 16:18:42 GMT -7
Well, I am certainly not an expert at this stuff or have near the experience of you guys, but I did build a very nice strat from scratch using the best materials I could find. I researched the contruction of it pretty thoroughly and found a very good article on shielding a strat. I followed the directions to the T which included "star grounding", a good copper backplate for the pickguard, shielding all the controll and pickup cavities with copper, and grounding the bridge. I used the Dual Calibrated Set of pickups from Rio Grande, which are not noiseless, and my strat is DEAD QUIET in all positions.
After this one and only experience with this I wondered what all the fuss is about noiselss pickups. As I stated earlier, I dont have a lot of experience with a lot different pickups and guitars, but read alot and I came to the conclusion from reading that there really is'nt any double coil pickup that sounds like a single coil.
If anyone is interested I could probably dig up where I found the article about shielding but you guys have probably already seen it.
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