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Post by billyguitar on Jan 16, 2007 16:07:47 GMT -7
Have you ever noticed how much better your guitar rings when you raise the strings up to where they only buzz a little? My Lentz DL90 is almost like an acoustic because it reveals how much better the guitar sounds, unplugged and plugged in, with the strings up higher than I want. For some reason it hasn't seemed as important on other guitars, except acoustics. It sure doesn't help my speed licks. (keep this to yourself, I don't have any anyway!) Quite often I pick a used guitar at a store and the strings are so low that every note slaps. They must sound even worse plugged in! Usually these guitars have .009s on them too! I'm thinking, no wonder it was traded in, it sounds like crap!
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Post by jwr on Jan 16, 2007 17:56:54 GMT -7
It's not just you, I've been asked if my Strat was set up for slide!! It took a while to get used to, but my guitars do sound better for it. Been playing 10's w/ a 11E and 14B guage strings for a while now and it seems to be workin'.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Jan 16, 2007 18:18:29 GMT -7
I had a refret done on my Grosh Strat last year, and I told the guy to raise it up until there was no possiblity of any buzz. It's pretty high actually, but wow does it ever sustain now! I got used to the higher action right away when I realized I could grab a bend and hold it or wiggle it way better than before. I can't get my Tele to respond the same way, but the Strat stays right there because it really works.
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Post by mudskipper on Jan 16, 2007 18:35:38 GMT -7
yeah, guitars do generally "ring" better with high actions. it's even better if you were to use a set of 13's and play heavy handed.
i'm completely the opposite of you guys. i hate the feel of high actions. i use 10's and have my action set super low. i've got a light touch so that the notes don't sound slapped.
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Post by nitehawk55 on Jan 16, 2007 18:46:09 GMT -7
Other advantage of having the strings higher is you can get more contact on the string with the tips of your fingers for bends . I tend to like my action higher for that reason plus getting away from buzzing and slapping .
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Post by teleZgrl68 on Jan 16, 2007 19:37:42 GMT -7
I wondered about this with my action too. I used to keep my action low mainly cause it was easier on my fingers (being a begginer) but for the last year I've started raising the action and went up to .010's and I've noticed that they do ring out more clearer (of course it doesn't hurt to have Jr ringing them out so clean either) ;D
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Post by billyguitar on Jan 16, 2007 19:50:26 GMT -7
I think a light touch and a light pick, of which I have neither, you can lower the action. I think also that if there are guys that can play Martins with blinding speed then it should be possible to play electric with higher, but not Martin high, action. Also I play very clean almost all the time so I need good guitar tone. I can't cover up with overdrive like I used to. So I play less notes but try to get more music out of the guitar and for me I have no choice but to raise the strings for clarity. It's also much louder acoustically when I play on the couch watching TV. The Lentz is the best sounding unplugged electric I may have ever heard. Probably the light ash. Sometimes it resonates so much it vibrates my little Budda belly!
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Post by mward on Jan 16, 2007 20:50:57 GMT -7
Is it the strings higher that causes it to ring or that they're further from your pickups? Almost everyone I see has their pickups waaaaaaay too high and it effects how the guitar sounds in a negative way. I'm slowly getting my action higher and higher. I used to think (went to high school in the 80s is my excuse) that you had to have superlow action to be fast and good but SRV had his strings 5/64 on the treble side and 7/64 on the bass side! So now I know it isn't true. BB King also has some really high action and he sounds great. Live and learn.
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Post by skydog958 on Jan 16, 2007 20:56:45 GMT -7
I started with unusually high action (playing slide was easy!). Whenever I got a new guitar I set the action purposefully high because that was comfortable. But when I got my Zion set up w/ 11s (it came with 9s) the guy asked what action did I want, and I said medium. When it came back the guitar had easily the lowest action of any guitar I've owned. This plus the thin neck, longer scale, much smaller nut, and thinner frets was a big adjustment for me, but now it plays pretty comfortably (the lower action helped). I'm considering raising it in a bit.
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Post by billyguitar on Jan 17, 2007 5:48:06 GMT -7
I just listen to the string as you play it unplugged. You'll notice when it acoustically gets much louder and cleaner. Then I start to lower them until I start losing clean tone and acoustic output and then I stop. The pickup heigth could make a difference but that wouldn't affect the leading edge of the picked note. If the magnetic pull was to affect the string it would be after that first event.
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Post by mward on Jan 17, 2007 7:18:21 GMT -7
Actually I believe magnetic pull affects the string all the time. The string is constantly subject to the field, even during the first pluck. How far it moves when you pluck it is independent of that (and that may be what you're referring to) but as soon as your pick is free of the string, the string is being damped by the magnetic field. I wonder if you lowered your pickups as low as they'd go before you started lowering the string if it would go lower before you started losing tone. I am going to try this on one of my guitars this weekend and see how it goes.
I just don't see how having the string higher or lower (as long as it's not hitting the frets) affects how it rings. To my mind, the string vibrates the same regardless of whether it's up high or down low, as long as that vibration is not being acted upon by some external agent. This leads me to believe that the better tone you guys are hearing is a function of the distance to the pickups. I could be wrong, this is just an a priori analysis, but it seems logical to my mind. I'm really curious about this though, hence the continued mental meandering.
One other thing I've noticed is my picking style really affects string buzz. If I don't pay attention to how I hold the pick I have a tendency to pick in a diagonal towards the pickguard and I get a lot of buzz. If I make sure I hold the pick perpendicular to the pickguard I get a lot less buzz and the notes sound totally different.
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Post by mudskipper on Jan 17, 2007 8:01:56 GMT -7
the string tension does change depending on the height of the action, so it affects how your guitar sounds. there's more downward force at your saddles, too, and that helps it to "ring" better. if you have your pickups too close to the strings, they will pull and will have a negative effect on the string movement even when strings don't touch the top of pole-pieces. for example, if your pickups are too close, you would hear a strange "beating" when you play your low wound strings above the 12th fret. it should get worse as you go up (in pitch) the neck. it's a combination of a few things that makes high action a better choice when it comes to the sound. it's always a good idea to balance the playability and sound.
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Post by billyguitar on Jan 17, 2007 9:06:50 GMT -7
It is a compromise that's why I said to lower it until you start losing the sound you want and stop. The way the string is picked probably does make a difference but I am a diagonal picker and that won't change. Some guitars seem to cover up a bit for the strings being low. I think it has to do with how much the acoustic properties of the guitar are amplified by the guitar. My Lentz has light resonant ash, solid mounted P90s, Strat hardtail type brige with titanium saddles and smallish 6105 frets. This combination happens to make this design very reponsive to slight changes. Totally opposite of a typical Gibson where fret buzz is hardly heard. A normal Fender is in the middle regarding these acoustic effects. This Lentz is easily the most demanding guitar I've ever played. Every nuance, good and bad, is highlited. Too low of strings is readily apparent because you can hear every bit of slap, even thru the amp. I'm playing a 4 hour gig Friday night. The biggest concern is not soloing but playing those creature chords and holding them down on slow balads like Moonlight in Vermont or Over The Rainbow. I'm planning on taking my old Vibroluxe Reverb on this gig. the Lentz really gets along with it. Can't wait for the Evan amp!!!!!
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Post by mward on Jan 17, 2007 10:20:36 GMT -7
the string tension does change depending on the height of the action, so it affects how your guitar sounds. there's more downward force at your saddles, too, and that helps it to "ring" better. If the action is higher the string tension is the same until it's fretted because it has to stretch more to get to the fret. Open strings are always at the same tension regardless of the height of the string above the fretboard. I think this is probably what you meant but I am clarifying to make sure. Yeah I can't wait for the Evan amp either. I thought I had the last amp I'd ever need (route66) but... if the doc is building a 6L6 based amp I guess I need ONE MORE AMP. I even have a quartet of NOS RCA 6L6s at home waiting for an amp to go in.
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Post by mudskipper on Jan 17, 2007 12:29:13 GMT -7
If the action is higher the string tension is the same until it's fretted because it has to stretch more to get to the fret. Open strings are always at the same tension regardless of the height of the string above the fretboard. I think this is probably what you meant but I am clarifying to make sure. right.... thanks for that. i was thinking about raising the string action higher would change the break angle at the saddles resulting in increased downward tension on saddles. as i recall there are a few things that influence both the actual and/or perceived tensions like the scale length, the string break-angle, string height and neck relief, etc....
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Post by billyguitar on Jan 17, 2007 12:36:55 GMT -7
You're right about the perceived tension. Relief is the one I watch. I like it almost straight. More relief would do the same as raising at the bridge except for the upper octave.
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Post by tele1962 on Jan 17, 2007 15:04:25 GMT -7
"I'm planning on taking my old Vibroluxe Reverb on this gig. the Lentz really gets along with it. "
EVERYTHING gets along with those amps!
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2007 7:39:23 GMT -7
Resistance is your friend. While you are at it...go up a gauge. Its naturally bigger.
"nobody said it was supposed to be easy"
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Post by billyguitar on Jan 26, 2007 9:28:15 GMT -7
I'm using .011 thru .052. The .014 B is the one I had the most trouble with.
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