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Post by toneking on Feb 2, 2007 13:48:56 GMT -7
Hi all,
I've been having a discussion lately with martyfly and lefty about buffers, ie:different kinds, when to use, do they help, where to place in the chain, etc..... I've determined that I do need a buffer on my live/touring board. I just can't send a vintage guitar through that much wire and expect to come out the other side without any change in tone, true bypass or not, the load on the guitar takes away it's sparkle and fidelity, adding the buffer will hopefully keep my signal healthy all the way to the amps, which are AC30's and/or a Maz Jr. Nothing really chaps me more than to plug straight into my amp and hear how great the tone is, then add 5-6 pedals and hear it go from FM to AM. I'm using all high-end cables, true bypass effects, have my vintage wah-wah in a loop, the loop has a silent tuner out, so my tuners not in the path at all and I'm using a Voodoo Labs Power Pedal. You'd think that doing all this would be enough, but the signal still loses it's definition by the time it gets to the amp. So I started looking into buffers and it's opened a whole world to me. Martyfly has been a big help and I've ordered a buffer that I believe will be the one for my board and the way it's set up. I'd like to know how others feel about buffers, how you guys are using them on your boards and are you happy with the results?
Peace, Toneking
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Feb 2, 2007 20:39:19 GMT -7
I'm actually using one in my loop for my G-System. But when I was using my pedal board, the last thing in my chain was a Radial JX-2 A/B/Y and it served as a great buffer. If you have more than a few boxes on the board, a buffer is a pretty good idea.
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Post by Hohn on Feb 2, 2007 21:10:10 GMT -7
What does a buffer do that a clean boost can't? I mean, if you're losing signal, you're losing signal, right? What difference would this be over just running an RC, for example??
just curious...
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Post by martymcfly on Feb 2, 2007 21:10:59 GMT -7
Toneking knows this from the dialogue we've had, but I'll post here for public info. I use a buffer at the beginning of my chain (which is the most common method) and also at the end. The buffer at the end is specifically to drive the signal coming out of my Eternity, which is my second to last pedal, just in front of the buffer.
I learned that tip on the Gear Page in an extended discussion about the Eternity's tone, and was amazed how much it helps. With the buffer, it keeps/brings back the full spectrum of sound from the E, whereas it's not as "there" without the buffer (It's a good pedal either way, but is extra lively with the buffer placed afterwards). I'm not aware of this dymanic with most other True Bypass pedals, so I'm assuming it's simply the way the Eternity is made.
For comparison, I A/B'd my buffer (Doobtone Micro-Buffer) against the stock buffer in the Boss TU-2 tuner, and found that the Doobtone buffer was much better. Not a surprise there, but was a good confirmation for me that I made the right choice in buying a dedicated buffer.
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Post by mudskipper on Feb 2, 2007 21:17:03 GMT -7
my signals are buffered one way or another all the time. if you are going through a number of pedals, you'd want your sig buffered early on (like right after the loop box with the wah), no?
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Post by martymcfly on Feb 2, 2007 21:21:12 GMT -7
my signals are buffered one way or another all the time. if you are going through a number of pedals, you'd want your sig buffered early on (like right after the loop box with the wah), no? Yes, usually the buffer goes at the front of the chain, after the fuzz/wah if you have one (or both).
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Post by Dr.T on Feb 3, 2007 2:54:56 GMT -7
I think it could be useful, but to me the problem isn't to add or not to add a buffer, is to loose NOT original gtr tone!! Keeping few pedals in the chain as possible...
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Post by dock66 on Feb 3, 2007 7:23:27 GMT -7
For me lately....I try to preserve the original guitar tone as much as possible by having fewer pedals running through the chain,FX Eng Mirage comp or Keeley comp and my Xotics RC,AC,BB pre seem to cover most of my needs at the moment.
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Post by ruger9 on Feb 3, 2007 8:24:54 GMT -7
Here's Dave Barber's (Barber Electronics) takes on it:
. If you have enough pedals and cable where signal is degrading, then one (maybe two) properly placed and very high quality buffer is the way to go. Redundant buffers that only run on 9 volts are going to color your sound. Quality is very important with buffers, a lousy buffer is not going to improve anything, there are LOTS of lousy buffers The guitar's initial transient gets lost with many of the 9 volt buffers I have tried, even at unity...try it, your ears wont lie. If your board is simple and you have less than 30 feet total of quality cable you probably don't need a buffer, certainly not with 20 feet total cable in the living room setups. David Barber
...I gather from this info that hotter pickups will also act as a buffer (to some degree)... it seems the key is, simply, to get the loudest signal you can going thru your pedal chain so the signal isn't degreded coming out the other end.
Right now, I have semi-hot pickups in my tele, 6 true bypass pedals, and an 18-ft cable, with a 3-ft cable from board to amp. I've probably got a grand total of 25 feet between the guitar and the amp, and I have no signal loss whatsoever. I don't know how many more pedals I can add before I need a buffer, but as of now, I don't.
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Post by Dr.T on Feb 3, 2007 11:57:43 GMT -7
I tryed with a little Keeley looper, the first channel was guitar > keely looper > amp, in the loop there were Fulltone Clyde Deluxe > RC booster > OCD > FD2 (both true bypass and turned off). There was a little degradation in signal with the pedals in the loop, even if they are True B.
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herf
Junior Member
Posts: 80
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Post by herf on Feb 16, 2007 6:48:30 GMT -7
For comparison, I A/B'd my buffer (Doobtone Micro-Buffer) against the stock buffer in the Boss TU-2 tuner, and found that the Doobtone buffer was much better. Not a surprise there, but was a good confirmation for me that I made the right choice in buying a dedicated buffer. Does Steve Dudley still make the Doobtone Micro-Buffer? If so how can one be ordered?
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Post by Phil (aka Phil) on Feb 16, 2007 8:11:08 GMT -7
Dave Barber said exactly what I was going to say about lousy buffers. All buffers are not created equally! After looking at Brad P's rig, I ordered an Axess Electronics BS-2. It's an awesome buffer. It's fed by a 9V adaptor, and has a reverse polarity switch for the second amp output to eliminate phasing issues. To my picky ears it's as transparent as possible. I e-mailed the owner/builder of Axess and asked him if the BS-2 had an internal voltage doubling circuit, as the headroom seemed way higher than any 9V device. He responded with a cheeky, "Maybe... " Highly recommended. PDW
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Post by guitarboy02451 on Feb 16, 2007 9:32:03 GMT -7
Can anyone recommend a good buffer?
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Post by ruger9 on Feb 16, 2007 16:21:02 GMT -7
I never caught that Brad uses the BS-2. Looks VERY cool. I may just have to check that out, as I'm having a hard time using less than 5 or 6 pedals lately (I've got too many darned overdrives....)
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Post by real.sladdi on Feb 16, 2007 16:33:24 GMT -7
Barber Launch Pad or MI Audio Boost'n'Buff. Have both but use at the moment the B'n'B cause I can use it as Buffer AND Boost. The LP can only do OR but is a very versatile tool (Buffer/ Line Driver, Boost, DI...). Some call it a Swiss Army Knife. Great pedals - and both are affordable not to say cheap...
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Post by matcaster on Feb 16, 2007 16:52:38 GMT -7
Is the Zvex SHO considered as a buffer ?
Thanks
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Post by martymcfly on Feb 16, 2007 23:17:38 GMT -7
For comparison, I A/B'd my buffer (Doobtone Micro-Buffer) against the stock buffer in the Boss TU-2 tuner, and found that the Doobtone buffer was much better. Not a surprise there, but was a good confirmation for me that I made the right choice in buying a dedicated buffer. Does Steve Dudley still make the Doobtone Micro-Buffer? If so how can one be ordered? I PM'd you an email address.
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roger
New Member
Posts: 9
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Post by roger on Feb 17, 2007 9:17:25 GMT -7
I've got an older VHT Valvulator which does the job nicely and it powers the pedals.
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Post by Telemanic on Feb 18, 2007 9:47:26 GMT -7
A buffer is simply a device to convert high Z to low Z to go thru all the miles of stuff and cables. A buffer for the purpose of buffering normaly does it at unity gain. Now, the problem, for me anyway. Ive tried buffer after buffer, and i hate them. Just me i guess, but they ALL alter the character of my tone just enough to p- me off. They seem to impart this subtle high end sheen to the tone, and a slight but detectable kind of brittleness or change in attack. I tried the JX2 with the adjustable buffer and it was better but still not there for me. I do suppose tho if you are going thru 10 pedals and such it probably becomes a moot point. For me, There is something addictive to the sound and feel of the high Z guitar into an amp! I basicaly have just gotten to the point where i only use one, two, or maybe on occasion, three pedals. Great cables & patches ( Evidence Audio ) short as possible, helps alot too.
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Post by jakeddy on Feb 18, 2007 13:53:48 GMT -7
Another thing that a buffer is good for is when used right before and after a volume pedal (low Z too) the highs aren't all muddy when you roll back the volume.
The MXR-401 can be used as a unity gain buffer too like the BS2.
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Post by BW on Feb 18, 2007 14:46:32 GMT -7
Position your pedalboard under the lower front edge of your amp to tilt it back a little bit so you can hear it real good, plug one cable straight in from that nice old git-tar and give the volume pot a hard right-- Dr Z's--Don't be sufferin', forget about bufferin'! (a public service announcement) (...and yes, Virginia, I KNOW there's one in my tuner...)
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Post by BW on Feb 18, 2007 14:52:17 GMT -7
I never caught that Brad uses the BS-2. The BS-2?
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Post by bilbal on Feb 18, 2007 20:49:04 GMT -7
I personally use two. One in the beginning of my chain and then lastly (in my rack) before my heads. I have never had any problems and signal degradation is not an issue. I have just always felt this was the way to go.
Just my $.02 worth...
Bill (bilbal)
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Post by kerryprotools on Mar 9, 2007 0:21:06 GMT -7
How Bout' the ol' "Brick" from GT. You get a GREAT PRE...AND a buffer -all tube ,all the time. I use one in front of my chain and I LOVE the way it makes OD's really "light up" without breakin a sweat. Is ANYONE using this box as a buffer?. I hink Brad P. actually started using it recently. Tht what the add says anway..
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