mikek
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Posts: 144
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Post by mikek on Dec 26, 2006 7:28:01 GMT -7
Hey guys, its been a while. Hope you all had a great holiday! I've been loving my RxES for about 6 months now, and it continues to impress me. I love its clean tone, and its natural overdrive is pretty amazing as well. I'll be 100% honest: I'm looking for a pedal to help me cop the smooth, natural overdriven sounds of Larry Carlton. Yeah yeah, I know its impossible, but bear with me. Its that kind of D*mble, smooth, complex, "clean overdrive" that makes me melt. I've been on the Zendrive list for exactly a year on Saturday, and no one seems to be able to tell me how much longer it'll be. I came across this clip of Josh Smith on the Xotic website, and he's using an AC Boost for this purpose, and I really like what I'm hearing. Check out "Part 2. AC Booster and Humbucker Pickup" www.prosoundcommunications.com/english/video/joshSmith/index.htmlDo any of you guys use the AC Boost for this kind of D*mble tone? Any other pedals you'd recommend? I've gotten close with my AnalogMan KoT, but it doesn't have quite the billowy quasi-attack and midrange that I'm looking for. Any help or experience will be greatly appreciated!
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Post by (8^D) on Dec 26, 2006 8:41:25 GMT -7
Might look into the Barber Direct Drive. It's designed to actually get those tones with the tone knob pulled up. Great pedal!
I've also found the BB can give a strong knod to the D*mble - it's more compressed than the AC; and, the Keeley DS-1 w/a humbucker guitar can get in the ballpark. But, I'd still suggest the Direct Drive before the others.
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mikek
Full Member
Posts: 144
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Post by mikek on Dec 26, 2006 9:49:51 GMT -7
Might look into the Barber Direct Drive. It's designed to actually get those tones with the tone knob pulled up. Great pedal! I've also found the BB can give a strong knod to the D*mble - it's more compressed than the AC; and, the Keeley DS-1 w/a humbucker guitar can get in the ballpark. But, I'd still suggest the Direct Drive before the others. Thanks for the response. I didn't realize the Direct Drive was designed for just that task. I'll have to email Dave Barber and get some information. Are there many Z users that like the Direct Drive?
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Post by tjstrat on Dec 26, 2006 11:11:56 GMT -7
I haven't used the DD with my Zs, but they've sounded great with anything else. A little sterile to me, but chalk it up to odd ears.
The old 4 knob, one channel Burn Unit had a real nice D*mbley tone. Every so often they show up on eBay, and it may be worth a look.
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Post by (8^D) on Dec 26, 2006 12:27:09 GMT -7
Might look into the Barber Direct Drive. It's designed to actually get those tones with the tone knob pulled up. Great pedal! I've also found the BB can give a strong knod to the D*mble - it's more compressed than the AC; and, the Keeley DS-1 w/a humbucker guitar can get in the ballpark. But, I'd still suggest the Direct Drive before the others. Thanks for the response. I didn't realize the Direct Drive was designed for just that task. I'll have to email Dave Barber and get some information. Are there many Z users that like the Direct Drive? Well, they weren't completely designed for that task - very TS9 sounding until the Tone/Mid boost is pulled, that aspect was designed specifically to cover those D*mble tones. I used my DD w/a R66, Maz Jr 212 and Maz Sr 212...and a Mesa DC3...and it rocked! Pretty versatile pedal - TS killer to EVH high-gain Brown sounds. I'll be keeping one around.
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Post by billyguitar on Dec 26, 2006 12:48:50 GMT -7
A guy had me try an AC Boost pedal recently. Into a clean amp it's not good.
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Post by 6strang (aka Paul) on Dec 27, 2006 11:09:34 GMT -7
No offense Billy...my AC sounds killer into either my Maz Jr. or Mazerati after my Keeley compressor, and I run them relatively clean. Tone is all subjective... I can get a nice tube-screamer tone with mine without the mid-range hump as well. I think that the Xotic stuff is great. My 2 cents. 6strang
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Post by billyguitar on Dec 27, 2006 12:50:00 GMT -7
It's good to hear your impressions. I heard a fizzy top and no compression. Neither attribute work for me into a clean amp when what i want to hear is a simulation of a cranked amp. The BB is better for me and, I would think, better to get a Carlton tone. I did read that the AC has been changed a bit so that may have improved it. I'm NOT saying I'm right. I'm just stating my goals for a pedal. I also have never heard a Fulltone drive pedal that's worth a hoot. When someone understands my point of view then they can better understand what a given pedal or amp sounds like. Differing opinions can be very helpful IF you know where a guy's coming from.
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Post by tjstrat on Dec 27, 2006 13:05:24 GMT -7
I always had a little fizz on my AC, even after the MiniBicomp smoothed things. That fizz drives me nuts, but Ford has a little of that on "Down the Line"... But it didn't work for me in the long run.
Fulldrives... Well, I liked the OCD. Had a FD II that I loved/hated, had a couple DejaVibes that were like playing pea soup, although that IS much of the the real UV attraction.
Remember though... I've had a Zendrive, I've had a Timmy, and I've opted for the new Clark pedals instead, so my ears may be automatically a little suspect...
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mikek
Full Member
Posts: 144
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Post by mikek on Dec 27, 2006 14:35:57 GMT -7
Thanks for all the info guys.
I've decided to nix the AC Boost idea for now. I'm looking into the Barber Small Fry, which is a single channel of his Burn Unit pedal with a few modifications. Allegedly does the D*mble tone quite well. Trying to get a hold of the builder or a dealer is proving slightly difficult....
Before I buy the Small Fry, I decided to satiate my curiousity and build the RunOffGroove Umble. After looking at the Overdrive Special schematics at Schematic Heaven and talking to the guys at ROG, I'm going to try a few tweaks to the Umble design and see what happens.
Don't stop posting though!
FWIW - you're not alone billyguitar, I can't get a sound I like out of the Fulldrives.... Guys get great tones out of them, but I can't.
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Post by skydog958 on Dec 27, 2006 15:26:28 GMT -7
I just checked out that site. I'm gonna mod my RM Octavia, so I'm looking at that schematic.
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Post by tjstrat on Dec 28, 2006 8:23:35 GMT -7
I looked at the Keeley mod instructions that mikek referenced in some posts yesterday... By golly, maybe I should score a couple cheapies and start trying to improve my soldering skills and see if I can't do some of this stuff on my own. I'm SUCH a doofus with the Weller, though...
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Post by guitarboy02451 on Dec 28, 2006 9:55:10 GMT -7
A guy had me try an AC Boost pedal recently. Into a clean amp it's not good. Huh? Thats like saying squirrels don't like nuts. AC rocks. I use it with my MAZ and yes, get a very d*mble like tone. Sorry Billy, I have to disagree on that one. Another good pedal is Zendrive, but you probably wont get your hands on one of those any time soon. pg
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Post by billyguitar on Dec 28, 2006 10:05:59 GMT -7
Makes me think there was something wrong about the one I heard. Maybe it had a dieing battery? The one I heard barely had any drive at all and what there was, was not good. Never mind me boys! Apparently the one I heard was not representative. Sorry, but how could I know?
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Post by skydog958 on Dec 28, 2006 10:09:28 GMT -7
My BB was sounding very fizzy and crappy once. Just the day before I used it alot and it sounded great. I changed the battery and it was back to being awesome.
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mikek
Full Member
Posts: 144
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Post by mikek on Dec 28, 2006 10:33:48 GMT -7
Thanks for the continued posts guys.
In the midst of this, I found some pretty interesting video clips on YouTube. The player is Scott Lerner, a huge Fuchs and Glaswerks user. Its kind of a rundown of some common D*mble-type pedals through a clean Fender amp.
Menatone Howie
Xotic AC Boost
HAO Rumble MOD
Personally, I'm digging the Howie. Clips of it on Musictoyz are promising too. Strangely enough, the Howie is the same concept (FET simulation) and uses the same components as my aforementioned Umble. Neither are copies of each other, they just use the same approach and similar designs.
BTW - any ideas what the Zendrive wait is by now? I've been on the list a year....
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Post by tjstrat on Dec 28, 2006 10:42:44 GMT -7
Y'know, Mike, watch eBay for the occasional old 4 knob Barber Burn Units... They come on every so often and do the big D very nicely.
I tried an old single channel Howie and it sucked like Cygnus X-1... But you're right, the two button versions sound decent on clips I've heard.
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Post by Bill on Dec 28, 2006 10:45:56 GMT -7
I recorded a song last night using a Fender amp and a BB with gain set low, at about 8:00...to my ears it has a dumble singing smooth quality to the tone. The link is over in the sound section if anyone wants a listen.
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mikek
Full Member
Posts: 144
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Post by mikek on Dec 28, 2006 11:15:13 GMT -7
Cool clip Madison! To your ears, do the mids of the BB sit a little lower in the frequency range than the AC? I could be totally mislead, but it sounds like the BB's midrange is a little deeper and thicker, and the AC's midrange is voiced higher in frequency and a little hotter.
Tim - any experience with the Barber Small Fry? Its one channel of the Burn Unit (i.e. - 4 knobs) and gets lots of praises for its big D-like tone.
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Post by tjstrat on Dec 28, 2006 11:27:05 GMT -7
No experience with the new one, but the old black 4 knob box that had plastic adhesive decals was pretty good. If you can contact Dave about the differences, if any, he might have some insights. Price points are probably pretty similar for either of them right now.
The Dumbliest stuff I ever got was on the H2 clips noted in the Sounds section... Not Dr Z amps, but the dirty channel of a Mark III Mesa with the Ross side of the AnalogMan mini BiComp driven by the low drive side of a '99 FDII... But that's a lot of real specific gear to get for that tone...
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Post by Bill on Dec 28, 2006 11:40:05 GMT -7
Cool clip Madison! To your ears, do the mids of the BB sit a little lower in the frequency range than the AC? I could be totally mislead, but it sounds like the BB's midrange is a little deeper and thicker, and the AC's midrange is voiced higher in frequency and a little hotter. Tim - any experience with the Barber Small Fry? Its one channel of the Burn Unit (i.e. - 4 knobs) and gets lots of praises for its big D-like tone. Mike, the problem I find with all these clips is that smoking players like Josh and Scott are able to make virtually any pedal sound great. A regular player like myself with little recording experience is giving you a no frills examination of the pedal. How's that for a line?? Lol ;D Actually your ears are right on, the BB is a bit thicker and less middy than the AC, more transparent...not that one is right or one is wrong...just take your pick from two great pedals. And don't me started on the RC...
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Post by Tom the Guitar Guy on Dec 28, 2006 13:02:58 GMT -7
Thanks for all the info guys. I've decided to nix the AC Boost idea for now. I'm looking into the Barber Small Fry, which is a single channel of his Burn Unit pedal with a few modifications. Allegedly does the D*mble tone quite well. Trying to get a hold of the builder or a dealer is proving slightly difficult.... You might try Brad over at tonefactor.com for the Barber Small Fry. I believe he may have a couple in stock, and he's very good to work with. Hope this helps. tomtheguitarguy
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Post by guitarboy02451 on Dec 28, 2006 13:45:14 GMT -7
Oh man, now I have to get a BB. I don't know why I ever returned the one I got. Maybe for a post-christmas special. I wish dealers of this stuff had after holiday mark downs like everyone else! :-)
Billy, yeah, they come with batteries. The first thing I do is rip out the battery. I use power supply. But I did hear one once where the battery was dying and it sounded horrible.
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Post by billyguitar on Dec 28, 2006 15:58:24 GMT -7
The AC I heard didn't sound ANYTHING like the clip here. These clips all sounded good. I noticed they weren't so good on the neck pickup but on the bridge they almost all sounded the same. Some of that is going to be because of the mic and audio system of the camcorder though.
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mikek
Full Member
Posts: 144
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Post by mikek on Dec 28, 2006 16:26:09 GMT -7
Had a strange thing happen today. Stopped by one of the local stores to check out some attenuators, and noticed they had a Rumble MOD in their pedal case.
I took a PRS McCarty and the Rumble MOD and plugged it into a Fender DRRI.
This is a pedal I would be very, very happy with. As a matter of fact, its the closest to the type of tone I'm looking for that I've heard. Is it D tone? Does it nail Larry Carlton's modern Dumble tone? I have no idea. I can safely say that this pedal very accurately captures the things I love about that tone.
By the way, the "Color" control is REALLY interesting. I was able to dial in the right amount of fatness, growl, and sting. My ears are telling me this isn't a plain vanilla subtractive filter, but I could be wrong.
I did some searching on TGP, and there seems to be a lot of praise for this somewhat unknown little guy. If you guys get a chance, check it out...very cool for my tastes, but as always YMMV.
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Post by tjstrat on Dec 28, 2006 16:51:00 GMT -7
The HAO Rust Driver has nothing to do with any kind of D tone, but jeebus did it ever do an intense Plexi imitation. Doesn't like other pedals much, but it was a FIERCE piece of work. One knob and you just turn the preset gain's volume up to suit your purposes. HAO is another one of those secret boutiques, like Pharaoh or Banzai...
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Post by kerryprotools on Dec 29, 2006 22:20:19 GMT -7
YES YEs YES!. I run my ES with 3 pedals. 1. A kelleey comp in front for country stuff.... ahhh... but thn I run right into the AC Booster with gain at almost off and volume boost cranked -then into the Zen. with all controls set at 1:00. Some players will say BS, but I've PLAYED Dumble ODS's and this combo is ALLLLmost an exact copy of that audio DNA-complete with rubbery feel and sensitivity so incredible, all you gotta do to get sweet feeback is just gentley fret your note. And its most definately a multi-timberal gain with overtones felt and heard at the 5 th of the note, 7 th , 9 th. I compared it side by side with a Fuchs ODS 50SLX and I PROMISE you this formula I happened on is Much closer to the sound and feel of a real Dumble. I also pulled one of of the GB's and put in a "Blue Special" out of my "Evil Twin". Pure magic my friend. Just try it if you can and you will never want to own another rig. Just be sure to use good tubes. i run Telefunkens 12's and ef-86's in the pre.(worth it). Power tubes- would you beleive the best combo is a pair of cheap Sovtecs in the first two and plain ol' Gt 's in the back two. I dunno why it works but it does...go figure?javascript:add(%22%20;D%22)
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