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Post by znewtome on Oct 5, 2006 7:41:49 GMT -7
I don't think the proper comparison is between the Mini-Mass and the Air Brake. For still less than an Air Brake, one can get the Mass 100 or even the Mass 150. Has anyone AB'd an Air Brake with a Weber Mass (either 25 W, 50W, or 100W)?
Related is there a wattage maximum with the Air Brake?
And, does it make sense to buy the highest wattage you can afford in order to get a more transparent sound/less heat generation/or other benefit? TIA!
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Post by dock66 on Oct 5, 2006 8:35:51 GMT -7
Air Brake is used with amps less than 100 watts and can attenuate down to 1 watt. It is on Dr.Z page .I hope this helps.
dock66
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Post by dock66 on Oct 5, 2006 8:39:09 GMT -7
Not familiar with Weber Mass.There are some forum members using Webers,hopely someone can chime in on this.
dock66
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Post by John on Oct 5, 2006 9:40:57 GMT -7
I have a Weber Mass 100. The older 'tabletop' style. Not the 1/2 rack looking newer ones. I like it very much. A LOT more transparent than my Marshall Powerbrake.
I do know that tube amps, when they get hot can turn out MORE wattage than they are rated. Especially with spikes in power. Myles recommended I get a 100 watt unit to use with my 32 watt Route 66. He said not to use a 50 watt attenuator.
Hope this helps some. I don't have an Airbrake.
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Post by znewtome on Oct 5, 2006 10:38:44 GMT -7
gtrman - do you have any reservations or problems/cricitisms re: the Weber Mass 100? I'm starting to lean that way. I might even go for the 150 for my Diablo 100 amp.
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Post by John on Oct 5, 2006 11:43:56 GMT -7
At the moment, all I have is praise for the Weber Mass. But I'm dyin' to try an Airbrake. I really want to compare the two.
I do know of one thing right now where the Mass is better. On my unit, the attenuation is completely variable. By that, I mean there are no 'clicks' of adjustment, so you can make minor adjustments. Something that caused me problems with the Powerbrake. The right volume can be inbetween clicks. I know the Airbrake is this way. You can usually find a Mass on Ebay for a decent price. Airbrakes show up on Ebay, but they usually go for $250....sometimes even more.
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Post by ruger9 on Oct 6, 2006 3:27:34 GMT -7
The biggest difference, probably, is in the design:
The Airbrake is a RESISTIVE load, whereas the Mass is a REACTIVE load (which is acheieved by the use of a speaker motor, it's supposed to react and "feel" more natural than a purely resistive load.)
I have a Mini-mass (I'm not comparing the 2; I realize you're not looking at the Mini-mass), but wanted to chime in & say it works really great for me, some loss of treble with high attenuation, which is normal to all atenuators. Also, Ted is a great guy to deal with.
I'd like to check out an Airbrake someday, but it's one of those "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" kind of things.
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Post by real.sladdi on Oct 6, 2006 14:53:54 GMT -7
I had to make the same decision... Heard good things about the Airbrake AND the MASS too. As a MAZ Sr. user I was leaning toward the Airbrake. But I have an early SF Super Reverb with 2 Ohm imp. The Airbrake is only recommended for the use with 4, 8 or 16 Ohms. But esp. for using it on stage I like the simple and rugged design of the Airbrake. The Weber MASS is more versatile and it has i.e. a treble boost and a Tone stack onboard. But the main thing: it can be used for Amps with 2 Ohm imp.! Hard decision... So I've ordered both! Okay, it's quite expensive but I can't get the MASS in Germany and the Airbrake is even more expensive over here. And if they are good I'll keep both: Airbrake on stage, MASS at home... or so It'll take a while to Germany but as soon as I get 'em I'll chime in again and let you know how they "feel". Dieter
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Post by real.sladdi on Dec 30, 2006 9:19:13 GMT -7
Okay guys, got both attenuators now - the Weber MASS 50W and the Airbrake. The first one I've got was the MASS. Tried it at home and live with my MAZ Sr (Master 12, Volume 10). Here are my observations (+ and -): + well made, rough design + very versatile with the Tone stack and the Treble boost function + 2 speaker Outs + can be used for 2 Ohm impedance amps (i.e. Super Reverb) + attenuation continuously ajustable BUT... - treble loss... and the Treble Boost can't actually compensate that, but the amps Treble control can help - the difference between min. attenuation (speaker control at 10) and MASS Bypass is too big, almost a third (!) of the Bypass volume - when using the MASS even at 10 you loose all the dynamics of the amp sound Last week I've got the Airbrake. Here are the + and - too: + rugged design, great for live use + bedroom function + keeps the dynamics much better! - treble loss, can be compensated with the amps Treble control - only one speaker out... but this is also a (-) on all Dr.Z amps... - impedance range "only" from 4 to 16 Ohms, no 2 Ohm amps allowed Conclusion? Both attenuators have there pros and cons. I like the Airbrake a little more cause it doesn't kill the amp's dynamics as much as the MASS. On the other hand I'll maybe need the MASS for my SR... I think I'll keep 'em both: the Airbrake for live use with my MAZand the MASS at home with my SR and the cranked Valve Junior
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Post by mudskipper on Dec 30, 2006 12:15:46 GMT -7
i also noticed the insertion loss (that's the min attenuation level) on MASS/Load Dump was a bit much. so i had Ted make them with 2~3 dB insertion loss rather than the standard 6dB. it works much better that way.
i'd like to try AB someday. that's the only one i haven't tried (or owned) so far other than those made by really small companies like Ultimate Attenuator.
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Post by real.sladdi on Dec 30, 2006 12:25:00 GMT -7
i also noticed the insertion loss (that's the min attenuation level) on MASS/Load Dump was a bit much. so i had Ted make them with 2~3 dB insertion loss rather than the standard 6dB. it works much better that way. i'd like to try AB someday. that's the only one i haven't tried (or owned) so far other than those made by really small companies like Ultimate Attenuator. Hey mudskipper, thanx for "insertion loss" - every day a new english (american?) word... Now I have to ask Ted how to change it by myself.
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Post by buddachile on Jan 2, 2007 13:45:18 GMT -7
I have both, and used to have a Hot Plate.
In my opinion the Airbrake is great for light attenuation while the MASS's "insertion loss" is too great to make it practical for live use with low power amps like my MAZ Jr. For bedroom levels I think the Airbrake sounds horrible but the MASS sounds pretty darn good. Yes there is treble loss, but the overall tone is smooth and natural.
The Hot Plate sounded crappy at bedroom levels and just OK at light attenuation - there was a definite undesirable tone coloring. And the 4dB steps were too much. I'm glad to be rid of it.
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Post by John on Jan 2, 2007 20:29:25 GMT -7
I have an Airbrake on the way. I'll compare it to the Weber Mass and report my opinion.
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