Difference between old and new Ghias?

[stuey222]

Got a lead on a '99 Ghia, is there any difference besides cosmetics between a '99 Ghia and a newer Ghia?

[Shannon]

I know the really early ones used Hammond chassis and I think trannys. Pretty sure the trannys changed since 99 though. Older ones had a green jewel light I believe. It is a known fact that older ones, particulary with green jewel lights, have MAJOR mojo.

*But a Ghia is a Ghia. Old or new, they sound like Ghias and are hard to top.

[Phil (aka Phil)]

The older ones like my famous 1998 Ghia (and almost certainly the 1999 one you're looking at) had a different transformer. Back then Doc used a single-output tranny (i.e. no 4/8 ohm taps) so you can look on the back and if it's just got one output it's like mine. Then Doc changed over to the same tranny that he uses in the MAZ 18 (which does have the 4/8 ohm outputs).

*Every* Ghia sounds slightly different. It's very sensitive to tube selection since the circuit is so simple, therefore slight tube variations show more readily. Having said that, I've always thought that the ones like mine are warmer and the newer ones are a little brighter, a little more percussive and a little more aggressive. Kind of like the difference in the 1998/1999 Route 66's and the post 2000 ones.

They're *not* the ones built on the Hammond reverb chassis; those are even earlier than 1998.

[Curt]

I have had 6 or 7 of them and too me there are at least 4 different generations.
1. the original tiny Hammond
2. the < 2000 single out (lower output, earlier break up, warm/dark)
3. the early to mid 2000's (medium output, medium grind, my personal favorite era)
4. the current (louder, crisper, brighter, better for larger stages or more clean spank)

No scientific data, jest ownership of at least two from each era and what I personally like/dislike out of an amp. Others will prefer a different era or disagree with my timeline.

[Phil (aka Phil)]

Curt's right on the money. That's exactly how I see it too, although for my style I think I prefer the <2000 slightly over the mid 2000's.

[stuey222]

It does have only one out, so I'd assume it's generation 2, as Curt has classified them. Just to clarify, the one out is 8 ohm, correct?

I'd love to hear Doc's take on this as well.

[jordanbunte]

From the Doc in a PM I got a while back about this question:

"OK , well that is a good question, one not easily answered with a simple response.
As you know the original 50 or so Ghia's were built on modified Hammond organ chassis, these units varied from piece to piece do to fact that each chassis varied as a base.

In 1994 I released the ghia II if you will, it was my own chassis design and duplicated transformers from the Hammond.
From then on that Ghia's have stayed as close to same as humanly possable with no MAJOR design change, why change a good simple thing.

But through the years I have adjusted a few values.
Now I have built over 2000 Ghias, each handmade so expect some variance just by natural touch.
But these are the things I have adjusted through the years:

I decreased the Global feedback resistor from 2.2 meg to 3.3 meg. 2.2 a bit smoother and slightly less output, 3.3 more edge and more output.

On the 100K plate resistor of V1 , second stage , recovery stage after the tone control, originally there was a .001 cap across that 100K. It would roll of some highs and warm up the signal some, again less edge, smoother tone, and less output with it in.
I removed because I heard may critic it for not enough high end and less VOXY sound.

Those are my only circuit tweaks.
I have a company ( Orange Drop SBE ) manufacture all my coupling caps , my name is on each one there consistency is increadable. I use the same Carbon Film caps, and the same CTS tone pot. My Output Transformers have been change due to companies going out of business. A problem with building antiquated technology suppliers dry up in the course of 20 plus years. I now use Heyboer and I feel they are nicest, and most expensive OT I have used in the ghia's.

Tubes yes tubes are a problem as well. In the Ghia I use two NOS tubes always have, a 5751 in V2 and a 5Y3 GT.
The supply for 5Y3's is still strong, but now everyone has heard of the 5751 and supplies have dried up. I swear before I started using 5751's in the Ghia's no other manf would touch them and many didn't know what they were. So I have been forced to use
NOS 12AX7 in V2, and this does increase mid drive some and output as well.

So there you go the long winded Saturday morning answer to your question.

Z"

[Curt]

Feb 7, 2010 10:21:38 GMT -7 stuey222 said:

It does have only one out, so I'd assume it's generation 2, as Curt has classified them. Just to clarify, the one out is 8 ohm, correct?

I'd love to hear Doc's take on this as well.

The one out is designed for 8ohm but Doc has stated several times the XFMR will handle 4, 8 or 16 ohm loads.


Or in Phils case.... no load for 6 days (NOT recommended).

[Phil (aka Phil)]

Actually it was no load for about three days... Thursday through Sunday when Don and I found it practically on fire. One tube change later still one of my best sounding amps.....

[Phil (aka Phil)]

Here's one other thing that wasn't covered in the excellent post by the Doc (via Jordan):

The Ghia uses a conjunctive filter on the output which is one of the things responsible for its unique tone. It was discovered that in some cases an output tube failure could blow the capacitor used in the filter, and the resulting voltage spike could take out additional amp components. This is a rare occurrence but it can happen. The cap has since been upgraded to a 600V snubber cap. If you're looking at an older Ghia it's possible that a previous owner blew the conjunctive filter and didn't know it unless he realized the tone quality changed. If in doubt you could send it back to the Doc for a checkup and they would go over the whole amp and make sure it's 100%.

[Jan]

Feb 10, 2010 15:13:15 GMT -7 Phil (aka Phil) said:

Actually it was no load for about three days... Thursday through Sunday when Don and I found it practically on fire. One tube change later still one of my best sounding amps.....

And I thought that Cryo Treatment was the new black. Man, it is hard to keep up.

[ringmod]

Feb 9, 2010 14:35:04 GMT -7 @jordanbunte said:

From the Doc in a PM I got a while back about this question:

"OK , well that is a good question, one not easily answered with a simple response.
As you know the original 50 or so Ghia's were built on modified Hammond organ chassis, these units varied from piece to piece do to fact that each chassis varied as a base.

In 1994 I released the ghia II if you will, it was my own chassis design and duplicated transformers from the Hammond.
From then on that Ghia's have stayed as close to same as humanly possable with no MAJOR design change, why change a good simple thing.

But through the years I have adjusted a few values.
Now I have built over 2000 Ghias, each handmade so expect some variance just by natural touch.
But these are the things I have adjusted through the years:

I decreased the Global feedback resistor from 2.2 meg to 3.3 meg. 2.2 a bit smoother and slightly less output, 3.3 more edge and more output.

On the 100K plate resistor of V1 , second stage , recovery stage after the tone control, originally there was a .001 cap across that 100K. It would roll of some highs and warm up the signal some, again less edge, smoother tone, and less output with it in.
I removed because I heard may critic it for not enough high end and less VOXY sound.

Those are my only circuit tweaks.
I have a company ( Orange Drop SBE ) manufacture all my coupling caps , my name is on each one there consistency is increadable. I use the same Carbon Film caps, and the same CTS tone pot. My Output Transformers have been change due to companies going out of business. A problem with building antiquated technology suppliers dry up in the course of 20 plus years. I now use Heyboer and I feel they are nicest, and most expensive OT I have used in the ghia's.

Tubes yes tubes are a problem as well. In the Ghia I use two NOS tubes always have, a 5751 in V2 and a 5Y3 GT.
The supply for 5Y3's is still strong, but now everyone has heard of the 5751 and supplies have dried up. I swear before I started using 5751's in the Ghia's no other manf would touch them and many didn't know what they were. So I have been forced to use
NOS 12AX7 in V2, and this does increase mid drive some and output as well.

So there you go the long winded Saturday morning answer to your question.

Z"

Maybe I will pull the chassis and try to revert my new Ghia to old specs. Anyone wanna help?

[scotty]

Feb 11, 2010 6:53:01 GMT -7 Phil (aka Phil) said:

Here's one other thing that wasn't covered in the excellent post by the Doc (via Jordan):

The Ghia uses a conjunctive filter on the output which is one of the things responsible for its unique tone. It was discovered that in some cases an output tube failure could blow the capacitor used in the filter, and the resulting voltage spike could take out additional amp components. This is a rare occurrence but it can happen. The cap has since been upgraded to a 600V snubber cap. If you're looking at an older Ghia it's possible that a previous owner blew the conjunctive filter and didn't know it unless he realized the tone quality changed. If in doubt you could send it back to the Doc for a checkup and they would go over the whole amp and make sure it's 100%.

Any idea when the snubber cap was upgraded? Just picked up an 04 and I'm just curious.

[Corey]

Great info! This thread may cause me to watch for a <2000 Ghia head.

;D

[Phil (aka Phil)]

Oct 8, 2010 17:38:17 GMT -7 scotty said:

Any idea when the snubber cap was upgraded? Just picked up an 04 and I'm just curious.

Oops...just saw this post. I'm not sure when the cap was upgraded...it seems like it was some time in the early-to-mid-2000's but I could be wrong. Brent would probably know for sure.

[myles]

I have played an amp or two in my day. The Carmen Ghia is still my favorite amp of any amp I have ever played.

When other folks play with it they generally end up wanting one of their own.

I don't care if it is generation 1,2,3,4 .... they are all amazing.

[prspastor]

All too true Myles

[Corey]

^^^
Agreed Myles and John.