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Post by rickc007 on Feb 1, 2010 13:31:49 GMT -7
Just got to demo a New Monza
Jayzuz H Kay Riste that sucker is LOUD
Started with the Drive at noon .. volume off As as I move the Volume knob ... WHAMMO !
This is NOT a low volume Bedroom amp AT ALL Couldn't really do too much with it Any more volume was just too loud
I'm sure some are going to love it But you may want to test one before you order one by mail
On the other hand, I plugged into the RX Jr. next to it My My My That's a callin my name
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Post by basementhack on Feb 1, 2010 14:49:23 GMT -7
Just got to demo a New Monza Jayzuz H Kay Riste that sucker is LOUD Started with the Drive at noon .. volume off As as I move the Volume knob ... WHAMMO ! This is NOT a low volume Bedroom amp AT ALL Couldn't really do too much with it Any more volume was just too loud I'm sure some are going to love it But you may want to test one before you order one by mail On the other hand, I plugged into the RX Jr. next to it My My My That's a callin my name I would have thought that this was the case anyway since the combo's I've seen advertised come with an installed Brake-Lite. I think Mini Z when I think bedroom amp. Keith
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Post by Jaguarguy (Mike) on Feb 1, 2010 15:48:33 GMT -7
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Post by doctorice on Feb 1, 2010 18:30:48 GMT -7
So far I've haven't used the vol or drive turned up past 10:30, and that's with the Brake Lite notched down to 3 in a 1x10 combo.
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Post by Pete aka shouldb on Feb 2, 2010 1:59:10 GMT -7
So far I've haven't used the vol or drive turned up past 10:30, and that's with the Brake Lite notched down to 3 in a 1x10 combo. WOW! So this really is a gain driven little beast!! ;D
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Post by hitoverdrive on Feb 2, 2010 8:35:46 GMT -7
So far I've haven't used the vol or drive turned up past 10:30, and that's with the Brake Lite notched down to 3 in a 1x10 combo. I'm trying to decide whether to get the head or the Red Fang combo with Brake Lite... I have 2 112 cabs already that are 8ohm each so I could use both daisied out of the 4ohm tap on the head. I wouldn't mind being able to attenuate the amp while at home either but I worry a 10in speaker is just going to be too limiting volume wise or have too small of a sound footprint when playing with a drummer or other guitarists. I know micing it it wouldn't matter. Either way I will have one version of this amp, that I know...in about a week when income tax comes in hehe.
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Post by bluzman on Feb 2, 2010 9:42:24 GMT -7
So far I've haven't used the vol or drive turned up past 10:30, and that's with the Brake Lite notched down to 3 in a 1x10 combo. I'm trying to decide whether to get the head or the Red Fang combo with Brake Lite... I have 2 112 cabs already that are 8ohm each so I could use both daisied out of the 4ohm tap on the head. I wouldn't mind being able to attenuate the amp while at home either but I worry a 10in speaker is just going to be too limiting volume wise or have too small of a sound footprint when playing with a drummer or other guitarists. I know micing it it wouldn't matter. Either way I will have one version of this amp, that I know...in about a week when income tax comes in hehe. I used my 1x10 with a Red Fang in a band situation last night. No worries keeping up... None at all!
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Post by rickc007 on Feb 2, 2010 13:51:56 GMT -7
Did not sound like a "typical" 1x10 to me Very Full sounding amp
I didn't think to look in the back to see if it had a Brake-Lite ... doh
Was also wondering if this is one of those amps that hits a certain volume then doesn't get much louder, just saturates more
I wan't able to turn it up to the point where is saturates like Frankie Starr does in the video, it was really WAY loud
But my first thought was, I'd want to change the taper on the volume pot
I'll have to read up some more and give it another whirl
But I'm really diggin the RX Jr
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Post by Curt on Feb 2, 2010 19:41:17 GMT -7
Did not sound like a "typical" 1x10 to me Very Full sounding amp I didn't think to look in the back to see if it had a Brake-Lite ... doh Was also wondering if this is one of those amps that hits a certain volume then doesn't get much louder, just saturates more I wan't able to turn it up to the point where is saturates like Frankie Starr does in the video, it was really WAY loud But my first thought was, I'd want to change the taper on the volume pot I'll have to read up some more and give it another whirl But I'm really diggin the RX Jr Same as the Mazarati Gt, when it's on it's on, slight increase from there but mostly saturates. The Monze, with the gain knob allows slightly more control, and WAY less volume, but it is still a VERY loud amp. It's in the design, the Power tubes are at full bore all the time, that is where that wonderfull tone comes from that makes ya giggle like a lil school girl at a dirty joke. But bedroom amp it ain't. I played the Proto a Z Fest Jam and it was right with a Remedy and a Jaz, both on full power. It is a killer gigging amp unless you need clean cleans. Diry Country with attitude to classic rock and dirty blues? Getc'ha one!
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Post by hitoverdrive on Feb 2, 2010 21:59:57 GMT -7
I'm trying to decide whether to get the head or the Red Fang combo with Brake Lite... I have 2 112 cabs already that are 8ohm each so I could use both daisied out of the 4ohm tap on the head. I wouldn't mind being able to attenuate the amp while at home either but I worry a 10in speaker is just going to be too limiting volume wise or have too small of a sound footprint when playing with a drummer or other guitarists. I know micing it it wouldn't matter. Either way I will have one version of this amp, that I know...in about a week when income tax comes in hehe. I used my 1x10 with a Red Fang in a band situation last night. No worries keeping up... None at all! Thanks bluzman. That helps. Sounds like its a very loud combo then. I liked all the sounds Frankie got out of it. You think it hangs with a 112 no problem without sacrifice or is the Red Fang that good of a match with the Monza that it even sounds better? I'll have to choose soon so I hope you won't mind my questions as I think of them. I'm already sold on the amp, just need to pick what version hehe. I guess why I want the combo with the Red fang is it has the attenuator in it. That's what is keeping me from going right to the head. Attenuating for in house playing is a nice option...
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Post by bluzman on Feb 2, 2010 23:35:35 GMT -7
I used my 1x10 with a Red Fang in a band situation last night. No worries keeping up... None at all! Thanks bluzman. That helps. Sounds like its a very loud combo then. I liked all the sounds Frankie got out of it. You think it hangs with a 112 no problem without sacrifice or is the Red Fang that good of a match with the Monza that it even sounds better? I'll have to choose soon so I hope you won't mind my questions as I think of them. I'm already sold on the amp, just need to pick what version hehe. I guess why I want the combo with the Red fang is it has the attenuator in it. That's what is keeping me from going right to the head. Attenuating for in house playing is a nice option... For grab and go the 1x10 is the way to go. If you want to try it out with different cabs a head is cool too. I love it with the stacked red fang... (Look in the Gallery) and they're not even close to broken in yet. The 1x10 hangs with a 1x12. Last night at rehearsal I had the attenuator on 2 and I was still plenty loud and clear!
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Post by fiestared on Feb 3, 2010 7:50:18 GMT -7
For grab and go the 1x10 is the way to go. If you want to try it out with different cabs a head is cool too. That's why I purchased the head and the 1x10 Red Fang cab separately. I want the original pairing of the Monza with the Red Fang, but also may want to run a cab of Greenbacks or v30/G12H30 for different flavors.
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Post by hitoverdrive on Feb 3, 2010 8:22:23 GMT -7
For grab and go the 1x10 is the way to go. If you want to try it out with different cabs a head is cool too. That's why I purchased the head and the 1x10 Red Fang cab separately. I want the original pairing of the Monza with the Red Fang, but also may want to run a cab of Greenbacks or v30/G12H30 for different flavors. I have a 112 with a Veteran 30 in it and another 112 with a K100. I also have a 212 8 ohm cab with Hellatone 60's(V30's) I like the idea of trying it with other speaker cabs too. I have a 412 with GB's but its a 16ohm cab. Bummer. No 16ohm tap on the Monza's. Probably end up with a head since I can already experiment cab wise with it.
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Post by fiestared on Feb 3, 2010 15:02:59 GMT -7
You should be able to run your Monza 8 ohm output into your 16 ohm cab, right?
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Post by hitoverdrive on Feb 3, 2010 16:17:02 GMT -7
You should be able to run your Monza 8 ohm output into your 16 ohm cab, right? No. I won't mismatch impedances. Bad on the OT...
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Post by DRZ on Feb 3, 2010 17:17:01 GMT -7
You should be able to run your Monza 8 ohm output into your 16 ohm cab, right? No. I won't mismatch impedances. Bad on the OT... Going into a higher load, 8 ohm tap to 16 ohm cab is OK, the OT will run cooler and won't reach full power OHMS LAW. But the other way running into a smaller load will overheat most OT's and can cause damage after some time. Z
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Post by Merks on Feb 3, 2010 17:23:43 GMT -7
Could someone comment on the difference between the Monza and Ghia? I had a short lived experience with the Ghia. I wanted more gain AND more volume! I was hoping the Monza would be a Jr. version of the Maz GT. Any input would be much appreciated. Merks
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Post by hitoverdrive on Feb 3, 2010 18:18:43 GMT -7
No. I won't mismatch impedances. Bad on the OT... Going into a higher load, 8 ohm tap to 16 ohm cab is OK, the OT will run cooler and won't reach full power OHMS LAW. But the other way running into a smaller load will overheat most OT's and can cause damage after some time. Z Thanks for the clarification Doc. Info needs to be accurate and I try to be when I post. My bad hehe.
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draco
Full Member
Posts: 126
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Post by draco on Feb 3, 2010 19:26:56 GMT -7
No. I won't mismatch impedances. Bad on the OT... Going into a higher load, 8 ohm tap to 16 ohm cab is OK, the OT will run cooler and won't reach full power OHMS LAW. But the other way running into a smaller load will overheat most OT's and can cause damage after some time. Z This is how I always understood mismatching amps/cabinets, but recently I've come across several people on other message boards (I specifically remember someone on the Orange discussion board) stating that for a tube amp, the opposite holds true - a safe mismatch being 16 ohm tap on the amp to 8 ohm cab. Now OBVIOUSLY I'm taking as gospel the words of the man who makes the very amplifiers we're talking about, but I was wondering if the Good Doctor might have a reason why some people out there would disagree with this concept? I would assume what's true for one tube amp would hold true for all tube amps as far as this is concerned?
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Post by stratovarius on Feb 3, 2010 19:35:58 GMT -7
Whoever said 16 into 8 was safe doesn't know what they're talking about.
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draco
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Post by draco on Feb 3, 2010 19:45:04 GMT -7
Whoever said 16 into 8 was safe doesn't know what they're talking about. The thing is, it wasn't like these people just said "put an 8 ohm cab on your 16 ohm tap and it's fine" - they were going into lengthy and technical descriptions about why it was true and why what holds true for solid state mismatches doesn't hold true for tube mismatches. I'm pretty much a layman regarding this stuff, so it's thoroughly confusing to me why there's a discrepancy regarding this subject with certain folks out there.
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Post by stratovarius on Feb 3, 2010 20:01:29 GMT -7
I too am a layman, but until I can thoroughly understand the lengthy and technical descriptions, knowing exactly how they apply to my situation, then I'll choose to follow the guidelines laid down by every builder I've talked to about this.
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draco
Full Member
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Post by draco on Feb 3, 2010 21:05:18 GMT -7
I too am a layman, but until I can thoroughly understand the lengthy and technical descriptions, knowing exactly how they apply to my situation, then I'll choose to follow the guidelines laid down by every builder I've talked to about this. Nobody can argue with that...when the Doc speaks, my Monza and I listen!
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Post by rickc007 on Feb 3, 2010 21:07:16 GMT -7
Going into a higher load, 8 ohm tap to 16 ohm cab is OK, the OT will run cooler and won't reach full power OHMS LAW. But the other way running into a smaller load will overheat most OT's and can cause damage after some time. Z This is how I always understood mismatching amps/cabinets, but recently I've come across several people on other message boards (I specifically remember someone on the Orange discussion board) stating that for a tube amp, the opposite holds true - a safe mismatch being 16 ohm tap on the amp to 8 ohm cab. Now OBVIOUSLY I'm taking as gospel the words of the man who makes the very amplifiers we're talking about, but I was wondering if the Good Doctor might have a reason why some people out there would disagree with this concept? I would assume what's true for one tube amp would hold true for all tube amps as far as this is concerned? I'm an Electrical Engineer by schooling And always thought what Doc said was true Watts one side of the transformer, equals watts on the other side. Lowering the load on the output would increase the current, and I thought that's where the issue is The other arguments on other forums stated another way. If you increase the load on the output side, you have less current, but higher voltage, that higher voltage may arc/jump across the the windings of the transformer, and blow it This coincides with the theory of having no speaker plugged in at all, aka infinite ohm load, no current, Very high voltage ..... Don't have answers ... just hmmm But I'd imagine you could design a transformer with sufficient insulation to double or half the output load without damaging a transformer
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Feb 3, 2010 21:14:48 GMT -7
I'd imagine you could design a transformer with sufficient insulation to double or half the output load without damaging a transformer My THD Flexi-50 has a switch for speaker impedance. Position 1 is 2-4 ohms. Position 2 is 4-16 ohms. The tranny is GIGANTIC.
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Post by DRZ on Feb 3, 2010 22:50:15 GMT -7
This is how I always understood mismatching amps/cabinets, but recently I've come across several people on other message boards (I specifically remember someone on the Orange discussion board) stating that for a tube amp, the opposite holds true - a safe mismatch being 16 ohm tap on the amp to 8 ohm cab. Now OBVIOUSLY I'm taking as gospel the words of the man who makes the very amplifiers we're talking about, but I was wondering if the Good Doctor might have a reason why some people out there would disagree with this concept? I would assume what's true for one tube amp would hold true for all tube amps as far as this is concerned? I'm an Electrical Engineer by schooling And always thought what Doc said was true Watts one side of the transformer, equals watts on the other side. Lowering the load on the output would increase the current, and I thought that's where the issue is The other arguments on other forums stated another way. If you increase the load on the output side, you have less current, but higher voltage, that higher voltage may arc/jump across the the windings of the transformer, and blow it This coincides with the theory of having no speaker plugged in at all, aka infinite ohm load, no current, Very high voltage ..... Don't have answers ... just hmmm But I'd imagine you could design a transformer with sufficient insulation to double or half the output load without damaging a transformer Wow I would love to read these theories from the Orange forumites. As I question there understanding of Tube Output Transformers operation. First off we are talking about LOW VOLTAGE AC at the Secondary of the OT. Voltages in say the 20 volt range for a 50 watt amp. These are a factor of Turns ratio of wire in the secondary to develop these voltages and when coupled to the correct impedence which will devlope the rated wattage of the OT. By increasing the load you will decrease the currant slightly, but also lower slightly the Voltage due to doubling the R in the IR drop, that is slightly less I but double R will result in less V. When they talk about Voltage jumping or arcing across windings this is what I don't understand. A transformer is Hi-Pot tested so it's input ( Primary )will withstand at least 3 times the high Voltage applied if the magnetic field collapeses , more comonly called Flyback Voltages. These Flyback voltages can destroy the amps circuitry if not contained, but this is on the Primary or DC High Voltage side of the OT. Remember a Transformer is used to decouple the DC High Voltage from the load i.e. the speaker. When trying to drive a lower load, higher currant will develop which if higher then the rated wire in the core will over heat and Burn open the secondary , causing a failure in the OT. DR.Z
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Post by mtlrecords on Feb 4, 2010 7:37:24 GMT -7
Thanks for the useful info. I always try to match my amp output impedance to my speaker impedance. Every once in awhile I will go 8ohm out of my EZG-50 into a 16ohm input of my Orange 4x12- I know this to be safe, but thanks again for the reminder and info!
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Post by bluzman on Feb 4, 2010 9:21:21 GMT -7
When trying to drive a lower load, higher currant will develop which if higher then the rated wire in the core will over heat and Burn open the secondary , causing a failure in the OT. DR.Z In other words, the Magic Smoke gets let out? ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Pete aka shouldb on Feb 4, 2010 10:49:08 GMT -7
When trying to drive a lower load, higher currant will develop which if higher then the rated wire in the core will over heat and Burn open the secondary , causing a failure in the OT. DR.Z In other words, the Magic Smoke gets let out? ;D ;D ;D ;D Thanks for that technical addendum to the Doc's comprehensive answer, Bluzman, I think it needed to be said, and I couldn't agree more ;-)
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