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Post by kich on Nov 10, 2007 7:49:37 GMT -7
How can I get a little more top end out of the 66. Do I need to try differrent tube ratings or speakers?
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Post by dixiechicken on Nov 10, 2007 8:51:35 GMT -7
Do you mean more clean headroom or more treble?
Cheers: Dixiechicken!
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Post by Dr.T on Nov 10, 2007 9:22:21 GMT -7
Usually guys have the opposite problem: how to cranck it without hearing loss...!
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Post by zdogma on Nov 10, 2007 12:15:37 GMT -7
If its treble you're looking for, then speakers are the ticket. For a little more treble I tend to use an Eminence Red Fang, for a lot more I use Celestion Neo, great speaker, lots of upper mids and treble.
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Post by Ed M. on Nov 12, 2007 14:56:06 GMT -7
I'm very interested in this also. My 66 isn't getting the love it deserves because I'm always playing my maz jr. I just love the chime of that amp so much. Now I certainly don't expect the 66 to sound like the maz jr. but if I could get some more top end out of it I would be a happy camper. I usually leave the RC booster on all the time with the treble turned up and it gets me close but......
Any one else want to weigh in on speaker changes or anything else that might help.
-ed
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Post by billyguitar on Nov 12, 2007 16:13:46 GMT -7
I have both the Celestion ndym speaker and the Jensen Neo. The Jensen doesn't cone cry hardly at all, the Celstion does a lot. For that reason I greatly prefer the Jensen. It does add the highs that you're asking for. The ndym speakers are really fast and articulate. That may put some people off. I've also tried my 66 with a JBL M31 15", more or less the same as a D130F. It adds some sparkle to the 66 as well.
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Post by Telemanic on Nov 12, 2007 16:43:22 GMT -7
I know exactly what you mean, i longed for a bit more "air" from my righteous 66. I tend to gravitate towards amps with nice open upper mid/highs, and the 66 is sooo thick in the low mid/mids, .... even with single coils, that the upper mids/highs are just a bit recessive. I almost at times find it occupies to much sonic territory live on stage, ... it's very W I D E sounding! I think speakers can make a huge difference as well. Not only in tone but in volume as well. I will tell ya though, i found that some careful tube choices worked wonders too. I found that the choice of PI made a big improvement! After many many tries i settled on a Telefunken 12ax7, which if you shop carefully you can pick up some ANOS one's for pretty reasonable. The reason for it's success for me is that it is a VERY balanced, linear sounding tube. Tele's are known for this, they do not accentuate any particular frequency band, and the result is a markedly flat mid response compared with most others. They also have an extended range to the high's, in fact in some amps a lot of folks find them to bright. I just find that they have a lot of "air", and like all things ya just need to match them to the right amp, usually not say, a Blackface fender which already has a mid notch and plenty of treble! This is why high fi guy's go nut's over the them, they dont want any unnatural humps in the response. With guitar amps my experience has been that in the right amp they are unbeatable, ... they are also known for their huge output! Even well used these babies still push big ma and fairly high gain too. The result in my 66 was fantastic, ... . OK, just so i'm clear we're talking increments here, not day and nite, but it all adds up and the improvement was very noticable. The Ef86's proved a little more elusive, i have about 12 different Nos ones, all the good ones, and they more than any 12ax sound quite similar with the differences being much more subtle. That being said with careful listening i was able to identify a favorite or two. To me the main difference was some being fuller sounding than others. You would think the fuller ones would be better, but again in this case i was trying to put the 66 on a diet, and i ended up with a Holland Amperex that had the gain texture and drive, but a little less full sounding or ... less mids, which again due to the funny freq. thing, makes the highs seem a little more extended. Last but not least the power tubes & recto. I had to remember that as a tube is driven into distortion it actually begins rounding off or "clipping" the tops of the waveform that is your guitar signal. The higher frequencies are usually the first to be rounded off a bit, hence the apparent lessening of the highs when the amp is cranked. This is the whole headroom thing, ie ... how long can the amp hang on to a full un-clipped waveform, as you turn it up. I went with an admittedly expensive set of Grey glass GEC KT66's, i found them far superior to the Russian tubes. Louder, tighter and brighter. If you were to make a comparison to Groove tubes i would say these would be about a #7 or 8. I have not listened to the Shuaguang KT's but i understand if biased right, they are brighter and tighter sounding than the russian tubes. I dont think that the tubes are actually brighter or darker per say, but again the headroom thing. If at a given volume you can preserve the headroom even a little, the amp will sound a bit more airy and chimey! Good stiff recto as well. Sorry so wordy! Good luck!
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Post by kich on Nov 13, 2007 20:40:39 GMT -7
more topend dixiechicken. I would like a little more cut.
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Post by Ed M. on Nov 13, 2007 21:22:22 GMT -7
a little karma your way telemanic .... Sounds like I might try a little more experimenting with the tubes then. I believe I've got a NOS 5751 in the PI right now but maybe a brighter 12ax7 would help, not sure if I'm ready to spring for some GEC kt66 but we'll see. -ed
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Post by LeftyLang on Nov 13, 2007 22:13:52 GMT -7
The Zvex SHO will add top end sparkle to the 66. Also try it with the Dr's 2x10 or 4x10 cab. Lots of top end with these two.
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Post by taswegian on Nov 14, 2007 0:25:06 GMT -7
I think speakers/cabs make a huge difference in tone overall. My 66 sounds vastly different through every speaker/cab I've run it through. I think if you want more top end, like leftylang said, the 10's may be cool, or go for a bright or chimey speaker. I think the Celestian Gold would be a great match with the 66 with plenty up top, but I'm just speculating as I haven't heard them together.
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Post by Telemanic on Nov 16, 2007 22:07:39 GMT -7
Hey Ed M, thanx man!! Anything for a Z bro!
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Post by Ed M. on Nov 19, 2007 6:27:21 GMT -7
Well I fired up the 66 over the weekend and realized that I had tried it through all the speakers I have except the 10" speakers in my fender prosonic. So I tried them out and wow, I can't believe the difference the ten's make. It tamed the bottom end and thickness and gave me a little sparkle.....amazing!! I think the Doc may want to put a sticker on the back near the speaker jack saying "10 inch speaker preferred"
Now I'm kicking myself for not trying this earlier. I connected up the 2x12's with the 2x10's and it still sounded really good.
Thanks everyone for all the suggestions!
-ed
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Post by dixiechicken on Nov 19, 2007 7:52:59 GMT -7
DC here! For more chime and sparkle - my 2x10" Z-cab sound "trebly" enough for me.
Another option is a Weber Blue Dog 12" 30W with pre-rola treatment (Ted's own recommendation)
Cheers: Dixiechicken!
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Post by zdogma on Nov 20, 2007 7:35:15 GMT -7
DC here! For more chime and sparkle - my 2x10" Z-cab sound "trebly" enough for me. Another option is a Weber Blue Dog 12" 30W with pre-rola treatment (Ted's own recommnedation) Cheers: Dixiechicken! I like the 210 as well. Mine has weber silver and blue 20 watt alnicos. The Weber is really nice with this amp, and he can custom build it with a smaller magnet for less bottom end.
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Post by dixiechicken on Nov 20, 2007 7:57:05 GMT -7
Hey "zdogma" - DC here! Do you have any clips of your 2x10" cab with the Webers and your Route66? I'd be interested in a little listening and comparison with my own 2x10" cab. I spy a Weber equipped cab in my future for sure. Cheers: Dixiechicken!
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Post by zdogma on Nov 20, 2007 18:04:02 GMT -7
Hey "zdogma" - DC here! Do you have any clips of your 2x10" cab with the Webers and your Route66? I'd be interested in a little listening and comparison with my own 2x10" cab. I spy a Weber equipped cab in my future for sure. Cheers: Dixiechicken! I don't have any right now, but next time I record something I'll do a few.
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Post by dixiechicken on Nov 21, 2007 3:33:20 GMT -7
"zdogma" - DC here! Thanks - looking forward to that. Cheers: Dixiechicken!
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Post by Dr.T on Nov 22, 2007 0:42:03 GMT -7
Guys, do you hear more top end with treb and bass after noon or both at 9 o clock?
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Post by dixiechicken on Nov 22, 2007 8:40:25 GMT -7
"Dr.T" - DC here!
Here's how I hear it live - others may disagree ocourse. ;D
Turn the Treble upp to 12 o'clock and you get a markedly increase in treble/high mids. Continue past 12 o'clock and you - as said everywhere - start to add sustain and compression as well - depending a bit where the Volume is set.
But I do also experience a Treble/high mid lift - past 12 o'clock - although not as much as in the first "half-turn" up to 12 o'clock..
I do NOT know if this treble-lift after 12 o'clock is in fact a "genuine" boost of these frequencies - or - if this is due to the fact that the amp starts to compreses distort & sustain.
When the amp starts to compress and sustains it will by that very effect add some harmonics - i.e. some treble & high mid frequencies.
Cheers: Dixiechicken!
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