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Post by newking70 on Jul 11, 2007 12:55:11 GMT -7
why no Rt.66 2x12 combo?
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Post by dixiechicken on Jul 11, 2007 13:22:20 GMT -7
Dont know really, but maybe just maybe one partial explanation can be the preamp-section. I'm sure a 2x12" combo Route66 would rattle that EF86 pentode pretty good. Some brands of can be very microphonic, due to it's high gain, so best to put as little mechanical strain on that tube as possible. Cheers: Dixiechicken
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Post by nitehawk55 on Jul 11, 2007 13:52:31 GMT -7
I believe the weight could be a factor too and it may be that the EF86 being a bit touchy may not be a good choice in a combo set-up as DC mentions . My 2X12 Maz jr combo is 75 lbs.....it's heavy if you have to go up and down stairs or across the room I think Doc is somewhat concerned about that fact and is leaning towards other options that are more user friendly ( for us mature players ).
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Post by billyguitar on Jul 11, 2007 14:36:22 GMT -7
I read before that Z says the EF86 would be rattled too much with an amp that'll do that kind of decibel level.
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Post by dixiechicken on Jul 11, 2007 15:42:15 GMT -7
nitehawk55 I like that expression "mature players" ;D - make me feel as if I had learned a few chops thru the years Our former keyboardplayer used to say - he wasn't in it for the money - he wasn't in it for the music - he just liked to lug that Hammond around. Cheers: Dixiechicken
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Post by whitestrat on Jul 11, 2007 15:44:03 GMT -7
Concur with the previous posts and would add the following. One reason there is no Route 66 combo is the potential probems you can encounter when mounting KT-66s upside down in a combo amp.
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Post by amakitalo on Jul 11, 2007 16:11:57 GMT -7
I tell aspiring amp buyers that before you buy a combo amp, you should run around the block a few times while carrying it, go up and down the stairs with it and if you still want the amp after all this, buy it! 2X12 combos may sound great, but they're a good way to put one's back out.
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Post by billyguitar on Jul 11, 2007 16:32:29 GMT -7
I've never heard about KT66s not liking being upside down unless you're talking about heat soak, in which case a fan like on the Maz 38 combos would fix that.
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Post by newking70 on Jul 11, 2007 18:53:20 GMT -7
i think every vox ac 30 should come with a truss
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Post by newking70 on Jul 11, 2007 18:54:47 GMT -7
One reason there is no Route 66 combo is the potential probems you can encounter when mounting KT-66s upside down in a combo amp. what about bluesbreakers?
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Post by edoetsch on Jul 11, 2007 19:54:02 GMT -7
I think it is the power tubes not the preamp tubes.
There is an EF86 in the Z-28 which comes in a combo
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Post by dixiechicken on Jul 12, 2007 2:30:41 GMT -7
Yes the Z-28 does come in a combo format, but it also comes as a head. The same goes for the Stang Ray. Both these amps also have the EF86 pentode.
You could argue - although I dont put much credit into it - that the Z-28 is a lower powered amp and so is the Stang Ray with 2 watts. ( a minute difference ). This equals less rattle at high volumes.
Perhaps a little more likely is the difference soundwise - let me explain: Almost everybody describes the Route66 as a darker & fatter sounding amp compared to the Stang Ray and the Z-28. This equals more bass and lower mid frequencies in the sound.
At similar wattage 30W that COULD imply greater cone excursion and hence more vibrations and rattle in the Route66 compared to the Stang Ray. If all other factors in this equation is similar - which I really dont know either - take it with a grain of salt.
I have seen a thread on this board about people putting rubber band around the EF86 pentode to stop micro-phony in their amps. At least I'm pretty sure it's the EF86 pentode tube you should worry about.
The new Chinese KT66 tubes seems to last about 5000+ hours - I saw somewhere. Compared to a good pair of NOS tubes that will last for 10.000 + hours. Most experts seem to say that these new KT66 tubes are about as good as they can be today.
They sound very good, they are very robust for new tubes - considering the price difference between new KT66:es and the NOS variant it doesn't seem much point in chasing these very expensive & rare NOS KT66:es.
Cheers: Dixiechicken
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Post by marsellus on Jul 12, 2007 5:43:25 GMT -7
I should have known when the subject said "Dr. Z bigshots" that I couldn't answer anything in this thread.
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Post by billyguitar on Jul 12, 2007 12:13:10 GMT -7
In the Bluesbreaker the tubes are mounted sidewase with vents on the top to let out the heat. I think if you dig deep enough into the Route 66 section somewhere there is a quote from Dr Z that it's the EF86 that keeps him from building a combo. While Dixie's right abou not much actual wattage difference between a Z28 and a 66 the fact is the 66 has tons more low mids which would make that ef86 act up for sure.
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Post by whitestrat on Jul 12, 2007 19:38:46 GMT -7
I've never heard about KT66s not liking being upside down unless you're talking about heat soak, in which case a fan like on the Maz 38 combos would fix that. Perhaps I wasn't very clear Billy. The physical dimensions of the KT-66 tube place design constraints on the amp builder who chooses to build a combo amp with this tube suspended from the base. These tubes are so large, no make that huge, that they can interfere with placement of the speakers in a combo amp (i.e., they can come into contact with the speaker magnet assemblies, especially AlNiCo speakers w/ bell covers). Also, that's a lot of mass and length to be hangin' out from the delicate sockets, even with retainer clips. I can imagine a whole host of undesirable technical issues associated with this design such at rattlling retainer springs, excessive tube vibration, tube socket tensioning, shock, premature wear & tear, stress, etc. Personally, I would never buy a KT-66 combo, and I'm not aware of many contemporary offeriings. I don't believe the current Marshall Bluesbreaker comes with KT-66s. Aren't they 5881s or 6L6s? Additionally, the original Marshall Bluesbreaker combo was adapted from the equivalent head version at the request of Eric Clapton as I recall. He wanted a more portable unit that would fit in the "boot" of his car.
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Post by dixiechicken on Jul 13, 2007 2:54:10 GMT -7
If it was only physical size constraints you could always make the chassies & the boxes bigger. But I would assume Mike Zaite has thought about this - when designing the Route66. I personally think there is NOT just one reason why the good "DR" decided to go for a head for Route66. I rather suspect that it is the sum of all mentioned reasons here - that made the "DR" go for a head. Maybe he just thinks that head:s are cool. Cheers: Dixiechicken
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Post by billyguitar on Jul 13, 2007 20:36:04 GMT -7
I have a first generation Bluesbreaker reissue and it does have 6L6s but I thought the reason they went to the deeper cab was so they could put KT66s in? When Groove Tube first reissued the KT66 I bought a pair and ran them in one of my 1957 Bassmans for a while. I had converted that amp to cathode bias so I just popped them in and made sure there wasn't a voltage drop to the preamp tubes which indicated the power transformer was handling the KT66s okay. I had to take out the springy tube holders because the base of the KT66s are too large. I carried the amp around and the tubes never fell out or came loose. They also didn't interfere with the speakers but the P10Rs are pretty small. In the end i prefered the 6L6/5881s in that amp so I went back to those.
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