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Post by Stratmeister on Mar 3, 2007 11:38:49 GMT -7
Hi guys. Well, you'll have another new club member in a short while. My 66 head has been on order around a month now, can't wait to get it.
So, as a newbie let me ask a few questions: 1) are schematics available somewhere so I can check them out before the amp arrives and get a better feel for this knob interaction I've read about? 2) what KT-66's are preferred by the group? How are the tubes that come stock from the Dr? 3) what speaker(s) are preferred by the group? I'm thinking a Blue or Gold Celestion, but I have some Webers and a Greenback in the closet. I have a 1x12 to mess with, and a pair of EVM-12L's in a 2x12 that's heavy as all get out, but can take anything.
I'm playing mostly cover rock and blues, Strats and PRS, but occasionally like to throw a Tele in there to mix everyone up. Pedals of various types come and go... And I do have an Airbrake and a Weber MASS. Playing on mostly vintage Fender blackface amps now.
Thanks for any advice or suggestions, and help finding Z schematics... Strats
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Post by mward on Mar 3, 2007 12:43:45 GMT -7
I've typed about 15 sarcastic replies and deleted them all. Suffice to say asking for Dr Z amp schematics is like asking a man for naked pictures of his wife. It just isn't done. It ain't right. That's how the good doc makes his living, and most of us, if not all of us, are ultra-loyal. Too loyal to produce a schematic and make it available to someone who would take food out of the Doc's mouth. Open the amp up when you get it an figure it out, if you must, but I'd just recommend playing the thing and enjoying it instead of trying to figure out how it works. Remember what happened to the guy with the goose that layed the golden eggs.
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Post by Stratmeister on Mar 3, 2007 15:31:17 GMT -7
LOL! Gotcha. No need for 15 sarcastic replies, one is sufficient! Especially the naked wife analogy (sp?).
You see I'm from Fender-world and have worked on vintage amps for years. There are Fender, Marshall, Hiwatt, etc... schematics all over the place so I assumed these were available as well. Heck there's even Dumbles. I'm sure someone has blueprinted these already, but I didn't mean to step on any toes.
I will indeed open it up and check it out, but not about to spread any trade secrets, don't worry. And as far as taking food from from the Doc, heck, I'm buying my Rt. 66 and cab new from Fatsound, not a used one on ebay. So no worries there...
Thanks for being fairly gentle with me, and I will be playing the heck out of it to see how it works. But having an electronics background AND being a player I love the insides as much as the tone.
But you can at least be a little constructive and speak on tubes and speakers right?
Oh yeah, what ever did happen to that guy and those eggs?... Thanks, Strats
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Post by BW on Mar 3, 2007 16:11:31 GMT -7
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Post by iggs on Mar 3, 2007 16:15:41 GMT -7
Congrats on the new amp!
1) no idea if you can get those anywhere, if you worked on amps before a peak inside will definitelly tell you all you need to know about the design. They are pretty straightforward amps and I believe that is where all the magic lies.
2) Other then the Holy Grail NOS GEC KT66 at around $400US a pair, the Chinese Shuguang (brown base) ones are quite nice, I prefer them slightly over the Russian Saratov (black base) ones ... slightly more "open" and not as dark. The Russion ones do seem a bit more robust though but that's just my uneducated guess. Everyone seems to be waiting with baited breath for someone to test those new JJ KT66, I'm keeping my fingers crossed. JJ has put out some nice tubes in the past, the new KT66 will hopefully live up to the expectation. Stay away from the Tung-Sol "KT66" ... check out the sticky in the forum. The first change I would suggest is to bite the bullet and get a nice NOS 5AR4 rectifier, it will make a huge difference right off the bat.
3) the only cabs I tried the Route 66 with is the Mesa 4x12 in the store (not sure what was inside) and my VHT 4x12 (with Eminence P50E). Sounded awesome with both.
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Post by m1911 on Mar 4, 2007 5:05:50 GMT -7
I'm buying my Rt. 66 and cab new from Fatsound What Z-Cab are you getting? I put Alnico Hemp Cone Tone Tubbies in everything here. Maybe you ordered a Z-Best 2x12? If so, you might want to swap out the Vintage 30 with a Greenback and keep the G12-H on the bottom. Mark
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Post by Stratmeister on Mar 4, 2007 6:45:28 GMT -7
Thanks guys. I contacted Mike at KCA also and he has some of the Chinese KT-66's. I'll get a pair and decide which I likebest and at least have a pair as a backup. I'm starting with a 1x12 cab, too bad they aren't square anymore, those looked nice. Anyway, I'm probably going to get a Z-Best after I sell a few more pieces of unused gear and migrate the 66 into my rig.
I'm going to go read that link now, thanks again. Strats
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Post by John on Mar 4, 2007 8:56:37 GMT -7
No offense to MWARD, but I don't see the offense in wanting to see the schematics. Any decent tech or engineer can pop the hood on a simple amp like most of the Z's and draw a schematic in a few minutes. Doing so means you've probably paid the entry fee...meaning you've purchased it. And you're free to do with it what you want. I think there's a big difference between wanting to see how it works vs trying to build a clone. And if someone wants to build a clone, that how the world works. (but at least there are patents to protect certain things.) And if someone wants to build a clone for profit...you'll have to get suppliers (who'll want to be paid before you assemble your clone), you'll have to get assemblers, pay them, give them benefits and a building to work in...you'll have to get a distribution network in place. All not easy things. If you want to build a clone in your basement, it can be done, but if you consider all the time and money you'll spend, you'd be better off buying a new or used Z.
Anyone here open up the hood of a car because they wanted to see how it worked? Anyone who's an engineer or who's been around them (my dad) knows they're notorious for wanting to know how things work.
Again, not trying to cause a stir, but I respectfully disagree that it's somehow offensive to the Doc.
And by the way, I'd ask Cindy Crawford's husband for naked pictures of her!!!
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Post by Stratmeister on Mar 4, 2007 9:27:38 GMT -7
Whew, I'm glad to see I didn't step on everyone's toes around here. Being a new guy it appeared I was skating on some thin ice (and I'm from southern south Florida and don't skate...) in that request. I'm glad I'm not quite there yet....;-)
From what I understand a lot of the uniqueness comes from very high quality components, especially the trannys, and a few twists and turns here and there. So in my case, it's probably more of a "curiosity and the cat" analogy, but that Cindy Crawford thing has got me going now...
Thanks again, and I can't wait to get my 66. I have some sweet Amperex Bugle Boy EF-86's stashed away needing a good home! Strats
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Post by mward on Mar 4, 2007 10:09:22 GMT -7
gtrman3: Not to be disparaging to stratmeister, but we have no way of knowing he has actually purchased a route66. He asked for schematics. Any old person could post on here saying hey I bought such and such anyone got a schematic? And then build his own. And maybe a few for his friends. It's not hard to source parts, although the doc's transformers might be a bit harder I'm betting you could find something that would work pretty well. I have built a few amps. It's not exactly rocket surgery. In other words, we have no way of knowing if he's paid the entry fee. If he had, would he need a schematic? Sorry Stratmeister, I'm erring on the side of caution. I'd think that if a Route66 clone showed up on ebay the Doc would be pissed. If he wouldn't be then he's far more magnanimous than I am. Meister, I am in no way saying you'd do that, just trying to explain my position.
Seems like every time I post on here something besides an innocuous "I like amps" I have to do a lot of explaining. Maybe I should go back to lurker. :\
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Post by John on Mar 4, 2007 10:37:06 GMT -7
Don't worry stratmeister, there are enough toes around here to step on! But from what I understand, this forum is the most civil and respectful of other people. (this is the only forum I belong to and participate in) Others in this forum have said that other forums are petty, childish and WAY too much time and effort is spent on flaming others and calling each others names.
So given that Stratmeister: "YOU JUST BETTER WATCH YOURSELF YOU LITTLE PUNK OR WE'LL ALL GANG UP ON YOU!! (ha ha)
....welcome to the forum!! You'll love your 66. Feel free to ask all the questions you want.
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Post by Stratmeister on Mar 4, 2007 11:01:45 GMT -7
Thanks guys, an no problem mward. I have indeed ordered and paid the entry fee (at least the deposit), about a month ago, a 66 head and a 1x12 cab from Stu at Fatsound. In fact we've spoken at length about speaker choice and he's going to do some testing on a Celestion Gold before final decision and shipping it to me, to see if it's worth the pretty high upgrade charge. I'm partial to Weber Blue Dog alnicos, but Brent (at Doc's, see I've even spoken to them before ordering...) thought the Gold to be top choice.
And I kind of understand the problem, because I did recently see a vertical 2x10 "Z" cab for sale that was fake. Even the Doc saw it and brought that to everyone's attention, saying he shouldn't be sending out "Z" logos to someone who said theirs was lost or broken, without some validition. Like, keep your reciepts!
All's cool, thanks for the welcome gtrman3, and you'll be seeing me around here cause I'm not that easy to get rid of, have thick skin, and now need to prove my validity! ;-)
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Post by mward on Mar 4, 2007 11:17:37 GMT -7
Strat: I'm using a g12h30 and a vintage 30 in parallel in a naked pine cabinet with a 13 ply birch baffle board. Sounds unbelievable. I think tolex or any sort of cabinet covering, while making it more dent resistant, deadens the tone. I've got a greenback but I don't like it as well with the route 66 although it sounds great with the homebrew ef86/6l6 SE amp I just built. As for tubes, I'm still using what it came with although I'm keen to try the shuguangs.
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Post by Stratmeister on Mar 4, 2007 15:28:31 GMT -7
I hear that mward. I have a original '58 5E3 tweed Fender Deluxe that got so much use the tweed covering basically deteriorated and it's now a bare pine cab. It has aged so sweetly it breathes the blues with a Strat.
When I get my 66 and the Chinese KT-66's I'll offer up another opinion on them. And whatever speakers I try. Thanks all for your valuable insight... Strats
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Post by Jim @94 Amps on Mar 10, 2007 16:48:30 GMT -7
We don't have schematics of our amps, so if you see one it is not from Dr. Z! Also we put Groove Tubes KT-66C in the RT66.
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Post by Stratmeister on Mar 12, 2007 10:18:02 GMT -7
A Z Henchman huh? So, got any red/tan Rt. 66's with matching 1x12 cabs ready to go out the door to Fatsound yet? ;-)
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Post by Jim @94 Amps on Mar 12, 2007 15:21:57 GMT -7
I did tube up some 66's last week, but I can't remember where they were going or what color they were. Sorry.
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Post by Stratmeister on Mar 26, 2007 15:32:56 GMT -7
Well, one of those was mine after all! Just arrived from FatSound today and all I can say after my first 30 minutes or so with her is WOW! Better than I had really expected even. I went with the 1x12 Celestion Gold upgrade and I don't know if it's the Gold or the EF86/KT66 (since it's my first experience with that combo), but what a fantastic sounding amp without pedals. I haven't had a chance to play around with pedals yet. So anyway, there, I really was telling the truth, I did buy a new one from the Dr.! ;D Strats
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Post by marsellus on Mar 27, 2007 10:00:40 GMT -7
I doubt you'll find a pedal that doesn't sound good with this amp. I've yet to find one. Put just about anyting in front of it and you'll like it.
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Post by Jan on Apr 1, 2007 19:09:10 GMT -7
There is a bit of over reacting going on here. I am about to buy a Z amp. I do not know whether it will come with a schematic. I will ask for one if it does not. I do not think this is an unreasonable request. Given that once upon a time you could buy a Z amp kit, I doubt that Mike will equate my request to asking rude questions about his family. However, I do not presume to speak for Mike.
regards, -Jan
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Post by mward on Apr 1, 2007 19:42:20 GMT -7
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Post by Jan on Apr 1, 2007 19:46:57 GMT -7
We don't have schematics of our amps, so if you see one it is not from Dr. Z! Ah, took a little searching to put you and Z together. Cool. So, are you saying the kits were a '90s thing?
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Post by Jan on Apr 1, 2007 19:59:41 GMT -7
Thank you, mward. Those links help. For those who have asked, I will still ask for a schematic. A "no" will neither hurt my feelings nor will it be a deal breaker to buy an amp. I have schematics on everything in the house that runs on tubes, hi-end hi-fi mostly. None of them are stock. Audio Research is in no financial peril by my amp tweaking. Satisfying my curiosity may actually generate more sales for Dr Z, not less.
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