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Post by Dr.T on Feb 16, 2007 1:14:23 GMT -7
Since I bought my head & speaker in oct 2005 I was very excited for what this amp could give. It changed my way of playing and I still love the tone I get from it, everytime I play. Knowing it step by step obviously I found defects also, and the first is that it's a very loud amp, so I bought an Airbrake and now it's ok, and will probably add a 1x12 speaker.
The second bad thing about it is a loss of midrange frequencies, expecially when I play with a band. This is the color of this amp, bluesy and creamy, and I know it may depend also on guitar (I don't own a good '74 or 60's Strat) but with both my Strat and Tele I feel this loss. I never biased it and never changed tubes. Never tried with different speakers.
The question is: there's something I can do to rich some more mids?
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Post by jb on Feb 16, 2007 6:53:49 GMT -7
I have a tele like yours in the Avatar and I know what you mean. However, with my Alder body Suhr carve top I seem to get all the mids I need. The alder body really delivers the mids more than ash. Is yours alder or ash? I also use one of those Solid Cables, which are very open and are not designed to scoop the mids or affect the tone of the guitar going into the amp. Works really well and can tell the difference with my other cables. Not cheap though. You should also check the bias, which can make a big difference in the tone.
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Post by John on Feb 16, 2007 7:16:00 GMT -7
Try a humbucker guitar. That will add midrange. I'm not saying that as a smart arse. But the 66 really lets the character of the guitar come through. I've played my 66 with both single coil and humbuckers. There's such a wide difference between them compared to other amps.
Another thing would be to play around with different speakers.
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Post by Dr.T on Feb 16, 2007 7:25:12 GMT -7
Yes, mine is an ash Strat deluxe and I have George L cables even from gtr to amp. I'm interested in biasing the amp, but I'm not doin' it by myself, what should I say to technician who will bias it? Some specs? gtrman3, yes....a LP is in my dreams and in my "to buy" list when I'll be a full radiologist!! I know your experience in different speakers, would a 1x12 give more midrange?
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Post by jb on Feb 16, 2007 10:06:53 GMT -7
Biasing the amp is a snap and is something I immediately check when my amp isn't sounding right. The Weber Bias Rite works great and after a couple of uses it pays for itself. 34-36 is a good setting. Also check the power rating on your tubes. If they are rated 6 for example, you may want drop down to 4. I currently have 4's in mine and seem to get a lot of midrange. I was thinking about changing to 6's.
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Post by billyguitar on Feb 16, 2007 10:11:57 GMT -7
My Z 2x10 cabinet has the strongest low to mid mids of any speaker arrangement I've ever used, while still having sweet highs and strong lows. I'd be surprised if any 12" could do that as well. Perhaps in Zs 1x12 cabinet it could happen because it's the same shape and configuration as the 2x10 but I've never been able to compare them. The Z 2x10 is my favorite speaker cabinet. I don't know why more people don't use them.
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Post by Telemanic on Feb 16, 2007 11:08:59 GMT -7
Dr.T, i'm suprised to hear this cause ive always felt my 66 has mucho mid thickness, in fact ive sought to put it on a bit of a diet. Live with a band it is so thick and consumes sometimes more sonic width than id like. And i'm no scooped mid guy. None the less you are hearing what you are hearing. One thing i wonder if its as much that your reacting to the tremendously LINEAR sound of this amp. While being so thick which comes from low mids/mids, the 66 to my ears doesnt have that typical spikey upper mid bark or presence of say many britt style amps. Its soo very smooth,... like myles decribes, driving a BMW 745 on a twisty road, all finess. It is a different and unique sound like none other ive heard. But i agree with the other comments, first if it was bought used ya never know about the tubes, so id replace em, or at least re-set the bias. It is amazing how far you can tweak this amp (within its signature territory) with power tubes+bias, Phase invtr, (huge) and your choice of EF86. You can tweak it for more presence, more headroom, more or less gain etc. just by having a nice stash of tubes to play with. Hey , just curious, what were you used to playing before this amp? Good luck,
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Post by iggs on Feb 16, 2007 11:26:16 GMT -7
I feel the same, plenty of mids there for me ... I was a bit worried about not having a Mid control because I tend to add more mids then most people would, but Route 66 has plenty for me. I'd say tubes would be the first thing to look at because the amp is so responsive to tube changes.
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Post by John on Feb 16, 2007 12:10:49 GMT -7
Switching from your Zbest to a 1x12 will not give you more midrange. If your Zbest is loaded with G12H....those are pretty midrange oriented speakers. You can always back off the tone control on your guitar.
It's a simple mod on a strat to have middle pickup tone control changed to include the bridge pickup.
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Post by Dr.T on Feb 16, 2007 13:06:17 GMT -7
Thanks very much to all of you, my Z-friends you spoke right: I think we are talking about the same thing. I still LIKE very much my amp and its unique caracter, I agree with you about bass and mid-bass response, my loss is in that high-mids field that makes you cut through the mix. Any suggestion for a tube replacement? I don't need more headroom, only a little more definition in that frequencies, but only if I CAN PRESERVE its natural tone.
I had a Deville 2x12 before this.
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Post by John on Feb 16, 2007 13:21:28 GMT -7
AH!!!
If you're looking for more of that upper midrange punch-through-the-mix sound....try an open back cabinet!!! You're playing a Zbest. That's a closed back cabinet, known for more bottom and less upper midrange. Open back cabinets are known for less bass, but more of an open upper midrange. There's a big difference in tone, even with the same speakers.
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Post by iggs on Feb 16, 2007 13:36:52 GMT -7
What KT66 do you have in there? If they are Russian (Saratov black base / GT KT66HP) then that might be the culprit. The Chinese (Shuguang brown base / GT KT66C) are noticeably brighter and deliver more highs and high-mids.
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Post by Dr.T on Feb 16, 2007 13:41:09 GMT -7
What KT66 do you have in there? If they are Russian (Saratov black base / GT KT66HP) then that might be the culprit. The Chinese (Shuguang brown base / GT KT66C) are noticeably brighter and deliver more highs and high-mids. I have the original tubes... Thanks gtrman3, I appreciate your speaker's knowledge. I do like having basses, if an open cab wouldn't lose it it probably could be the right way...
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Post by John on Feb 16, 2007 14:32:13 GMT -7
Don't think of having/trying an open back cabinet as 'loosing bass'. It's just different. Try one, you'll see.
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Post by Telemanic on Feb 16, 2007 17:17:35 GMT -7
Very tru, you find the upper mids and highs much less stifeled (spelling) duh, sudanlie eye cant not spel- with an open back. anyway you get the idea. The shuagangs biased on the hot side will help ya i beleive as well. The GT hp's are a little darker and smoother.
Also i really belive in building your self a stash of nos EF's, that way you can swap em in an out til you find the right combo. Recomendations there are a little problematic other than maybe some generalizations because they vary from tube to tube based on the year of manufactoring, factory etc. But in general i think ya might like the mini watt, holland if you can find one, many are labled but made by mullard, so its really a mullard which can sound great too. The GEC is balanced and full, so i think you might try something a little more skewed towards open in the upper freqs. Telefunken is precise and airy, but hard to find. And dont forget the PI, you can get really significant changes there, maybe even more than with the EF!
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Post by (8^D) on Feb 16, 2007 17:28:40 GMT -7
1. If you use a compressor, take it off, let the top end of the guitar breath a bit. 2. Play with the orientation of the cabinet - placing the V30 end of the cab up top and the G12H30 on the bottom (means setting up vertical rather than horizontal). 3. Set the bass on the head a touch lower than the treble. May have to play with the overall settings to keep the feel you're after. 4. Roll the tone control on the guitar back to about 7 or 8 - if you normally run it wide open on 10. Ash guitars are brighter...don't want to say thinner, but they have a flatter tone than say Alder which has a meaty mid range - between Ash and Mahogany. 5. If you use a lighter gauge string, try moving up 1 gauge. Heavier gauges will put more meat in the tone.
That rig should be eating up all the sonic space in the group and roaring out front - the 66 is one of the fullest/thickest tones I've ever heard. I've never had so many engineers comment on tone or say that was the 'perfect' tone until I put my 66 on the road. Sound companies wanted to buy it off me at least once a week on tour. That sound you're after is there, just tweak what's before it a bit more.
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Post by Curt on Feb 16, 2007 19:31:45 GMT -7
Dr T, Get yourself an open back 1x12, stick a Weber Ceramic 50 watt Silverbell in it, set treble @ 3:00 and Bass @ 10:00 to noon and smile.
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Post by groovergeorge on Feb 16, 2007 22:59:14 GMT -7
Has anyone tried a single pre-rola greenie in both an open and closed back cab? I'm using mine at present with my Carmen Ghia with good results but i guess what would one expect,the Ghia seems to sounds fantastic with just about everything. I swapped the Red fang out as I found it way too dark for the Ghia especially with the tone set at 2'oclock but find the greenback spot on. I realize that at double the wattage the Route 66 is going to break up really early,probably around 10' but I'd still like to know of anyone out there who has ventured that route?
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Post by Dr.T on Feb 17, 2007 2:02:36 GMT -7
Thanks to everybody, really appreciate your help. I agree with both your comments: -I think that my ash strats is thin, even with voodoo PUs (I'm considering to place a mini HB on bridge pos), but I have about the same problem with my tele. Anyway, I learned to turn off the vol a little expecially when RC booster is engaged (almost all the time). -Since I have this amp I eliminate compressor, very disappointed by this fact because I paid it very € (I have the Keeley one, great one but there's no need with this amp's own comp). -I'll try to change the orientation of the cabinet. -I changed some stomps on my pedalboard buyin' more transparent ones like AC and BB and I have not tried them yet seriously with the band or in live gigs (I'm gonna have a mini-tour now) as parameters changes dramatically from practice to live stage. I don't have experience in tubes and speakers so I have to thank you for all suggestions Tomas
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Post by frunabulaks on Feb 17, 2007 16:37:22 GMT -7
I am surprised to hear this too. I have fairly midrangy blues pups on my strat, Vanzandts, and I have to turn the treble and bass up in some rooms and the Vol. down in an attempt to scoop the mids out of it. A tube screamer with a midrange hump is almost out of the question for me with this amp. My Ash Strat is also a bit thinner than my Alder strat but my Alder Strat, the sunburst one, has tons of midrange bark through the 66 I can almost do an AC/DC impersonation if I crank it. Maybe check the bias.
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Post by Dr.T on Feb 18, 2007 2:19:09 GMT -7
I am surprised to hear this too. I have fairly midrangy blues pups on my strat, Vanzandts, and I have to turn the treble and bass up in some rooms and the Vol. down in an attempt to scoop the mids out of it. A tube screamer with a midrange hump is almost out of the question for me with this amp. My Ash Strat is also a bit thinner than my Alder strat but my Alder Strat, the sunburst one, has tons of midrange bark through the 66 I can almost do an AC/DC impersonation if I crank it. Maybe check the bias. I turned treb and bass from noon to 10:00/10:30 and this little adjustament gave me more mids. I also could take vol at 9:00/10:00 without breaking windows... I'll bias it and could be it won't need some tube changes, as they are new
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