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Post by marsellus on Dec 8, 2006 11:35:47 GMT -7
Last night, we played a gig, and the sound guy kept telling me to turn down, or turn the treble down because it was "piercing."
We practice with my Route 66 at about 9 o'clock volume - maybe 1/4 of the way up. And that mixes well with the drums and the bass.
By the time he was OK with the level (although still not completely pleased) I was around 7 o'clock or even 6:30 on the dial. I told him that if I turned down any lower, I would be "off."
Maybe I need an Airbrake.
Rant Status: Over.
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Post by billyguitar on Dec 8, 2006 11:40:18 GMT -7
Or maybe a plexi panel in front of the amp. Was that a closed back speaker? That would probably be worse.
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Post by rcrecelius on Dec 8, 2006 11:58:58 GMT -7
A RT66 piercing? Ya'll musta been playing in a glass house...I cant imagine having to play my 66 with the volume at 9 and still be told Im too loud or piercing...but then again, I never play it that quiet Where were your tone knobs set? Maybe you could try(if you havent already) turning the treble UP to get some clipping in the high end...I never run my treble below 3 oclock on the 66.
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Post by kledbet on Dec 8, 2006 12:02:57 GMT -7
Sounds more like you were just playing a gig where the music was functioning as backgroud noise. I don't see how the 66 at around 8:30 or 9 would be bothering anyone. I'd just consider this a bad gig with maybe not the right sound guy and just move on :-)
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Post by Bill on Dec 8, 2006 12:35:43 GMT -7
A lot of times it starts out that way, then as the gig progresses you can dial some volume back in. I usually fake an adjustment and pick lighter for a few songs. A Soundman almost never tells you to turn down once the crowd hits the dance floor and the party atmosphere begins however. The Rt 66 will really cut nicely with its liberal mids, maybe he's more used to hearing a "scooped" Fender onstage.
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Post by Curt on Dec 8, 2006 14:25:08 GMT -7
I'm with Ronnie here, a 66 is simply not piercing ! I've had that with a Ghia of all things, they took me completely out of the front of the house mix and the Ghia cut like a knife .... but never a 66 and I've played some closet sized Dives. The 66 at 9:00 is a really cool tone IMO but really not that loud ?? As mentioned abouve, shake it off.....rub some dirt on the wound and move on......nexy time with that sound man start with the 66 @ 3:00 and back down from there ;^)
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Post by taswegian on Dec 8, 2006 18:24:23 GMT -7
The Rt 66 and Z Best together can still be quite loud at 9 oclock. I know because I've been told to turn down there too. My reply goes something like " It's a 32 watt amp mate and it's hardly on, how low do you expect me to go?" But I'm far less compromising with soundmen than I used to be. I also throw in a "If you can't get the band and vocals to work around that "low" a guitar volume, you're not earning your money." Or, "I didn't buy tone this good to have you bury it...deal with it. Or, I say "noooo..." turn around and put all the knobs on three oclock and hit a power cord and go "That's loud" turn it back to 9 and go "That's reasonable". But I'm an arsehole when it comes to my guitar volume! On another note, I've been able to turn the amp up considerably and get away with more volume with the 1-12 speaker with an inefficient speaker. I haven't once been told I'm too loud and I'm sure the db levels are probably just as high as usual. The ZBest has such a big "image" sometimes I think sound guys think it's louder than it is. Another of my comments is "yeah mate, you can hear the guitar, but it's not loud, its called tone, you're just not used to hearing "tone" " That's my favorite... ;D But I really am a nice guy usually! The Z Best rocks.
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Post by kledbet on Dec 8, 2006 19:22:47 GMT -7
I think all of you guys know that the current trend is to keep amps lower on the stage and use the PA to get the levels up. The sound guys like it like this, but I'm not sure those of us with nice amps like it this way. My amps sound and feel better with some meat on their bones. I have actually been told to turn down my Univalve! I ended up running it totally clean and using pedals for everything. Bottom line is I think the sound guys sometimes just like to control every aspect of the gig, leaving us to follow their lead..... I'm with Tasweigen on this one, we may just have to stand our ground.
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Post by Dr.T on Dec 9, 2006 2:58:56 GMT -7
In many clubs I microphone 66 only to have some ambient diffusion, but with an amp like this I think 90% of your sound have to come from amp directly... Fortunately many sound guys I had for gigs after hearing 66 play said me: "well, raise your vol up and run with the amp!!!"
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Post by marsellus on Dec 11, 2006 8:35:48 GMT -7
What I ended up doing that night was adjusting the settings on my OCD pedal, then when the sound guy walked away, put the settings back where they belong.
Also, I play a G&L ASAT special, so I put the switch in the middle to get a lower guitar tone for sound check, and when we started playing, I put the switch in the bridge position to get the brighter sound that I use.
The guy kept telling me that my guitar "doesn't sound like a regular guitar." I guess it's because he's used to hearing nu-metal bands and bands covering Nickelback.
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Post by JASON (aka jgleaton) on Dec 11, 2006 9:19:00 GMT -7
The guy kept telling me that my guitar "doesn't sound like a regular guitar." I guess it's because he's used to hearing nu-metal bands and bands covering Nickelback. I'd definitely take that as a compliment!!! No, it doesnt sound like a REGULAR guitar..... he just gave you the greatest compliment with out even knowing he did.... have some Karma for tone so outstanding to the novice ear, it is simply irregular....
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Post by marsellus on Dec 11, 2006 10:56:27 GMT -7
Thanks. I think that may be the first Karma I have received.
Yeah, I was thinking that if I wanted to play a "regular guitar" through a "regular amp", I wouldn't be in as much debt, but then I would just sound too "regular" and that wouldn't be fun.
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Post by jwr on Dec 11, 2006 11:37:28 GMT -7
Without a master volume on the amp your better off telling him to take you out of the mix completely, but be polite about it. Get your sound and don't annoy the sound guy so he buries you in the mix later on in the night. Remember, most sound guys are either retired or failed musicians and possibly a bit spiteful, so be kind. Having a good relationship with the sound man is crucial. I wouldn't let this gig bug you, always set your amp the way you want it and then negotiate from there. A 1x12 cab or less efficient speakers will help if this problem persists. Jason
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Post by (8^D) on Dec 11, 2006 13:05:56 GMT -7
Couple suggestions:
Use a volume pedal and sound check a bit lower. If this was a typical club, I doubt they soundchecked at show volume w/an empty room. Play lower to start and work your way back up to full volume during the show.
Turn up the Treble/Bass (above where you normally run it anyway) and the Volume down - can still retain some of the sustain/grit w/o all the volume on the 66.
Blow the amp from the left or right side of the stage, rather than pointing toward the front (i.e. at the soundman/crowd).
Turn the cab around so the speakers face the wall.
Put together a plexi screen to place in front of the cab (works really well and is quite easy to transport). Empty cases work well for this as well.
Use a 1x12 or smaller cab.
----------
After a similar conversation with a 'difficult' soundman, another musican walks up to me and asks "Do you know what most soundmen use for birthcontrol?" Of course I didn't and replied, "no, what?" To which he simply said, "their personality."
While interpersonal skills may not be this gents forte, you still need to work with him on a professional level. So, try your best to keep 'your' tone but accomodate his concerns for stage volume...he has a job to do as well. And, a little 'understanding/cooperation' will go a long way to repeat appearances in the venue.
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Post by marsellus on Dec 11, 2006 13:57:57 GMT -7
I tried to accommodate the best I could....it's just that when I'm standing directly in front of my amp, I shouldn't have to get him to put more guitar in the monitor so I can hear it.
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Post by jwr on Dec 11, 2006 15:31:41 GMT -7
I agree. Most times I don't like my guitars going thru the monitors because the Mon engineer usually takes my head off it's so loud. You should beable to hear your amp on stage without monitors. And the suggestion from D.Weller about NOT pointing your cab at the sound guy is very helpful, just make sure you not pointing it directly at a open mic, say, on the drums. That will drive him nuts!!
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Post by taswegian on Dec 11, 2006 15:47:32 GMT -7
I should mention I know all the sound guys I work with really well and they are all great guys. I have a regular sound guy for my band and I play in another band with him so all my "givin' it to the sound guy" jibes are relatively done with love! ;D I wouldn't be nearly as rude with a soundguy I didn't know, but all the soundguys that have mixed me with the 66 that I didn't know (festivals) all absolutely loved the Rt 66. I even managed to get most of them to mike both speakers on the Z-Best!
Never point your cab at the soundguy or the bar. Haven't ever tried the backward trick, but I knew a great player who used to mike his rig (marshall plexi) in the bandroom side of stage. Sometimes he would even put it in the bathroom for some reverb. Stopped people hanging out in the band room! ;D
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Post by irelandy on Jan 7, 2007 2:44:51 GMT -7
I bought a tsl 2X12 Marshall cab last week and rehearsed with the band yester day....the other guitarist has a 60 watt Fender....at half volume I was drowning him out...at about 9...I could have drowned the band! Yes they are LOUD!
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Post by skydog958 on Jan 7, 2007 17:51:19 GMT -7
There's a big local band in my area called the Smyrk, and whenever they play it's rediculously loud. The venue that I mostly play is very small, so there is tons of sound reflextion. Almost every time I've played they've told me to turn down even with modest amp settings. I've always wanted to say "Well, the soundman's telling me to turn down, but everytime the Smyrk plays they blow my head off. So tonight, we're the Smyrk, and we're going to play as loud as we f$in' want!" ;D
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Post by guitarboy02451 on Jan 7, 2007 19:23:30 GMT -7
A z-brake would do the trick. A 66 can blow a concusive blast at the listener. Not so much the guitarist cause you are standing higher than the speakers. Folks sitting in a club have direct line of fire from your cab.
With my Sr, I start on the bedroom level at the club I play, then once the crowd fills in, I bump it to #4.
Practice levels and live levels are two different things. I practice in a finished basement with accoustic ceiling tiles, capet floor, and the tone is just flat dead. When I play out it's usually in a club that was built around 1900 with high ceilings and wood everywhere.
Yeah, I can see a 66 killing someone sitting at eye level to your cab about 20 to 40 feet away.
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Post by Dr.T on Jan 8, 2007 2:08:57 GMT -7
Yes, the solution to "survive" (!) is an Airbrake. But unfortunately sound does change... I practice at bedroom attenuation and high and mid frequencies, attack and sustain, response to pedals change. The answer is: do you keep amp volume higher and attenuate more or vice-versa??
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