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Post by John on Nov 17, 2006 16:31:22 GMT -7
I purchased a NOS Dario Miniwatt EF86 from KCA tubes for 50 bucks!!
I wanted to try another ef86 as I thought my current sound need more openness and high end. I've heard others say that putting a NOS tube in the Route 66 is "Like taking a blanket off the amp".
Even Myles said to put ANYTHING in there but my old Svetlana.
My expensive tube arrived and I fired it up...even A/B'ing back and forth between the Svet and the Dario....
They sound the same. The Dario may be a little brighter...but I don't know if I'm imagining it (because I want it to be so) or if it's just the same.
I'm really disapointed in my unreturnable $50 tube.
The amp just has so much midrange. Mix it with a very midrange Les Paul and a closed back cabinet and it's almost too much. I may have to go with an open back cabinet.
By the way, this is no slam on KCA.
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Post by taswegian on Nov 17, 2006 19:36:07 GMT -7
Even if you don't hear a difference, the NOS is a better quality and will be a lot more reliable and last a lot longer so it's still money well spent.
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Post by dock66 on Nov 17, 2006 20:52:08 GMT -7
Even if you don't hear a difference, the NOS is a better quality and will be a lot more reliable and last a lot longer so it's still money well spent. That mkes two of us that agreed on NOS tubes.
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Post by jwr on Nov 17, 2006 21:24:50 GMT -7
Nos will last longer and be more reliable. The Dario is nice, but the Mullard and the GEC are better in my opinion. Considerably better. Give those a shot. Jason
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Post by dock66 on Nov 17, 2006 21:51:10 GMT -7
A while back,I ordered a pair of Mullard EF86s from Mike at KCA and never looked back since.
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Post by James on Nov 18, 2006 7:31:30 GMT -7
"The amp just has so much midrange. Mix it with a very midrange Les Paul and a closed back cabinet and it's almost too much. I may have to go with an open back cabinet.".........................
I just bought a J design's open back 1x 12.........very reasonable at $200 and I loaded it with a 50 watt silverbell ceramic.......no dope. I had the same issues with my rt 66. The silverbell really added some sparkle to the high end and some midrange was "subtracted" in a good way. I also have the "treble bleed" mod's on all of my guitars so things stay "crisp" and not muddy when the volume is rolled off.
Just some ideas.....
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Post by John on Nov 18, 2006 8:04:51 GMT -7
I tried the treble bleed mod once...couldn't stand it. It seemed 'thin' when the volume was rolled off.
Could be a different type mod that what you have.
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Post by Bill on Nov 18, 2006 8:20:06 GMT -7
The amp just has so much midrange. Mix it with a very midrange Les Paul and a closed back cabinet and it's almost too much. I may have to go with an open back cabinet. That's the signature of the Rt 66...high "Marshally" mid content. Those amps will cut thru the mix like no tomorrow with a good boost pedal...killer gigging amp. Coupled with a Vintage 30 you're really covered in the mid department. Like James said, first thing I'd do is assess and change the speaker if you want to tame it. What I found is no amount of tweaking knobs will reduce it, it's just there and it's supposed to be there by design. As for the Dario, I had one last over a year in an RxES, and one last only a couple months in a Stingray. I put a Mullard (KCA) in and it's been cool ever since. A weird world, talking about the life and character of tubes. I find more obvious tonal changes from various 12AX7's...and less investment in dollars!
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Post by John on Nov 18, 2006 9:22:20 GMT -7
The closed back cab I have...while it seems decent in quality....is a no-name brand off Ebay. I loaded a V30 in it.
Since the cab only cost me $90, I'm considering cutting a vent in the back. Perhaps three inches tall and the whole cabinet wide. I can always make it taller.
But jeez, I really like the closed back 4x12 Marshall sound, but if I need more open high end, I need more open high end.
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Post by Telemanic on Nov 19, 2006 0:11:11 GMT -7
Couple a things, first i am an NOS nut, but was not blown by the Dario, its fine but its not in my Rt. right now. Ive amassed about 12 or more Ef's and have a lot of slight variations in fullness, balance, and brightness, but i dont feel any of them will negate the huge thickness that this amp has. I'm a single coil player so it works somewhat to my advantage, but i hear what your saying about sometimes wanting it not so thick. I found that the power tubes have a BIG impact on the sound of this amp. If you are sticking with the HP's, try a higher # which will make the amp SEEM a little brighter, as the highs will not roll off in compression so quickly, and as one frequency stands out another will recede a bit, so to speak. Also, playing with your bias can yield some positive results along the same lines. If you do your own with a set of probes, you can play test as you adjust to taste, or if your lucky to find a cool tech that will have you play and listen while he does it. I havent tried them but it is reported that the Chinese Shuaguangs biased on the low side are quite a bit brighter, and perhaps twangier or brittler sounding, which could be good or bad depending on your tastes. I like the descriptions and look forward to trying them! My Personal tube choice in this amp is unfortunately rare and expensive, but they are Genelex or GEC Kt66's, preferably the grey glass versions. They are getting stupid expensive, if you can even find a "guitar" matched set, but the sound is incredible. They make the HP #5's sound claudy and bland. So ..... i would try a set of HP # 7 or 8's, biased to your taste or the shuagangs set low and sample as many EF86's that you can reasonably get. Maybe that will help a bit?
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Post by hdahs143 on Nov 19, 2006 10:28:48 GMT -7
I'm building an NOS collection as well. I've got the original Dario my Stingray came with, plus another I bought from KCA for a backup. I recently purchased 2 ANOS Mullards made in 1961, along with a NOS Mazda branded Mullard GZ34 coded "f32/b5a3" made in 1975. I'm waiting on delivery of 2 NOS EF-86 Amperex Bugle Boy's.
So far, the Dario's are a bit brighter than the Mullards, and the Mullards seem to be a little richer/deeper than the Dario. Will report on the Bugle Boy's when I get them.
The Mazda/Mullard GZ34 is a gem, and should hopefully last for years! Less sag than either the Sovtek or the mislabeled Sylvania/Phillips. Very strong and punchy.
I know some guys scoff at Ebay, but if you do your homework, and check out sellers rep's, you can find some good tubes, for considerably less than retail.
Harold
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Post by Telemanic on Nov 19, 2006 11:23:16 GMT -7
I feel the same way Hdahs, i look at e-bay like a managed risk factor, i rarely throw big dollars on an e-bay tube unless its from a REALLY viable tube seller. Mostly i look for some sleeper bargains, and have come up with some great finds. Just recently got a batch of about 7 or 8 tubes that included a 1965 hammond by Mullard gz34, with the old 4 notch plates, 2- mullard for hammond 7247's for my old ampeg V-2, 3- GE usaf 6189's ( heavey duty 12au7's ) and 2 Mullard for hammond EF86's, - with the shiny nickel plate instead of the mesh. How bout this, ............ $ 59.00 for all !!! - I also agree with you that the Dario IS a little brighter, and the mullards do seem fuller and as you said richer. I found that a Valvo was very close in sound to the mullard, the GEC is great as well, refined and smooth. I was excited to find that i have a Amperex Bugle boy, but upon closer inspection found it to be GT. Britain, so i suppose its another mullard. I also got off of e-bay 2 1959 long screen mullards ( rare ) very reasonably too! Lot O fun !!
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Post by jwr on Nov 19, 2006 20:28:27 GMT -7
What Phase Inverter is in the amp? It may be part of the problem. If you hit your output section with a better/different PI it may help a little.
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Post by hdahs143 on Nov 19, 2006 21:01:12 GMT -7
What Phase Inverter is in the amp? It may be part of the problem. If you hit your output section with a better/different PI it may help a little. I agree, and would also mention the power tubes. If they're worn out or close to it, you're not going to notice much difference with a new tube in V1.
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Post by John on Nov 20, 2006 5:23:59 GMT -7
About 9 months ago I put a matched phase inverter and new matched KT-66's in it. So that shouldn't be the problem.
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Post by jwr on Nov 20, 2006 8:50:06 GMT -7
I've noticed a difference in PI's. The GT 12AX7M is a nice PI but doesn't give my amps the same snap as a Sovtek 12AX7LPS, which is what I use if I want the amp to really "jump" if you will. The 12AX7LPS is more "alive" than the GT12AX7M which is more mellow, but very nice. You may want to try a few different PI's, it's a cheap experiment, and may get you closer to your target sound for less than what you paid for the Dario. Jason
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Post by Telemanic on Nov 20, 2006 16:56:49 GMT -7
Guitarman, what # Kt's did ya put in there?, assuming that theyre HP's, ? Now i'm pretty strictly a single coil guy, so mine is a different experience somewhat but i felt or feel the same way, that sometimes i wish for more top end and openess from the mighty 66. Being that your talkin thick guitar into thick amp, you might be beyond tube tweaks to get ya to were you want to be, but seriously i have found a higher # like 8 to be louder, tighter AND brighter, ( a little ), but you trade off a little sag. And to be honest ya may now have a hard time finding them in that rating. I would really try the shuagangs biased on the low side as well. Beyond that you may have to try the open back. Ive gone as far as i can go tube wise, and am much happier, but wouldnt mind just a tad more top, this amp is soo very linear and smooth in its top end responce. It is amazing tho! I think my next Z is going to be a Kt45 for this very reason. Best luck finding THE tone!!
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Post by jwr on Nov 20, 2006 20:08:27 GMT -7
Maybe you need to try a Z-28. It's got a thick tone with a beautiful sparkle on the top end. It might be worth a try sometime.
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