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Post by stormholloway on Jul 2, 2005 18:49:37 GMT -7
Okay, so I got my used Route 66. When I got it, the kt66's were not even inserted. They were just bouncing around freely inside the head. They seemed okay though, so I put em in. Quite frankly, this amp just isn't breaking up like I thought it would. There's no drive.
I have it fully cranked. Every knob (I put ear plugs in). The amp just has no balls, no drive, no distortion. I'm not a metal player, but I wanted some break up. I heard this amp is touch sensitive. But mine has no leeway, I have to individually pick at each note, only to hear a loud, but fairly clean tone.
Is there something wrong with my amp? I mean, the tubes were rattling around when I got it, but both 66's light up. I'm pretty much in a funk over all of this. I have pedals, but they're not really helping. It's depressing actually.
Help!
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Post by taswegian on Jul 2, 2005 22:27:46 GMT -7
First thing I would do is take it to a qualified tech and have him check it out, may need a rebias. Are you using single coils or humbuckers? How high are your pickups? How hard do you play. Did the previous owner put other tubes in, particularly the rectifier or preamp valve. You can put other rectifiers in to give you more clean headroom so check that out. With mine wound up I can strum it softly and play clean chords or strum hard and get great amp overdrive. That is the beauty of it. You definately have to dig in to get the chocolate! Get it checked out first and go from there. And check which tube is in the rectifier spot. Hope that helps a bit.
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Post by taswegian on Jul 2, 2005 23:25:28 GMT -7
Also, what are you running it into for speakers?
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Post by stormholloway on Jul 3, 2005 12:35:17 GMT -7
Celesion Blues
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Post by Beckanon on Jul 4, 2005 9:21:43 GMT -7
Storm, that just doesn't sound right for the Rt.66. I was playing last night with an attenuator, but I had the treble and bass dimed with volume at about 10 oclock and I was hearing the amp in that cross-over "clean/dirty" area. If I had the volume at around 1 to 2 oclock, it would for sure be overdriving.
Be clear about one thing...the Rt.66 does not provide a "distortion" sound in the modern sense. Even the marshalls of the mid-70's have more gain. I know the Rt.66 is not a JTM45 copy, but if you have ever heard Clapton's Mayall period stuff, then you will know approximately how much gain we are talking here. This might be redundant, but I thought I should get that out of the way...maybe this is stuff you are already aware of. And my Rt.66 definitely can overdrive with no problems. I just changed the tubes without a rebias, and the amp sounds fantastic.
I agree you should have a qualified tech check it out...or try to contact the good Doc himself and describe this problem to him. I would FREAK if my amp arrived with the tubes bouncing around inside the head. Was this an ebay deal? I would definitely pester the person who shipped it and ask "..what's the deal here?!"
Good luck. Don't give up on this amp just yet!
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Post by stormholloway on Jul 4, 2005 12:22:43 GMT -7
Well, Dr. Z doesn't seem to be keen on responding to my e-mails. I sent him one a month previous and now another one concerning my present issue. Apparently he has no interest in this matter.
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Post by Stumpy on Jul 4, 2005 19:51:19 GMT -7
"Okay, so I got my used Route 66. When I got it, the kt66's were not even inserted. They were just bouncing around freely inside the head. They seemed okay though, so I put em in. Quite frankly, this amp just isn't breaking up like I thought it would. There's no drive."
Maybe you should contact the person you purchased it from...
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Post by ptrickamp on Jul 4, 2005 21:11:58 GMT -7
Just purchased a Route 66 from what I thought was a reputable dealer. They sold me a 2yr. old amp as new. Their justification was that it supposedly had only 1 hr playing time on it. When played I thought the same thing. I took it apart and the Power tubes were biased at 21mA per tube. Most 6L6GC amps with A/B amplification bias at around 35mA per tube, per taste. I emailed Dr Z and he emailed that the Route 66 should bias at 28 to 32mA per tube. So I biased at 28mA per tube and the amp really started to come alive. Please do not bias on your own if you do not know how!!! VERY DANGEROUS VOLTAGES!!! I do not know how a new amp came biased at 21mA. Tomorrow I will bias at 32mA to check for quicker breakup. If I played the amp wide open I may bias at a lower range. They amp sounds great with humbuckings, preferably fralins and great with pedals!!! Also check that the power tubes are GT-KT66 rating of 5 or 6. That is what comes in the Route 66. Mine came with GT-KT66C RATING 6. My speakers are 2 Celestion Vintage 30's running a 4 ohm load.
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Post by stormholloway on Jul 4, 2005 22:27:06 GMT -7
How do I check the rating of the KT66's? Also, how should I instruct the tech to bias it if I want breakup at lowest volumes? Does the higher the bias mean an earlier breakup? What does the mA stand for?
It's a lot of questions I know.
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Post by taswegian on Jul 5, 2005 1:43:28 GMT -7
DR Z has a section on tips on rebiasing for the 66 on the website. www.drzamps.com/biasnotes.html Just have your tech have a look. If it is biased correctly and your valves are rated correctly and the rectifier hasn't been changed, it will break up just fine. Doc recommends between 34 and 38mA per tube. Don't panic man... these are super cool amps and you've got one of those gold front ones that are super cool. Which brand of kt66 are in it? Are all the tubes stock? This amp sounds extremely good with the stock tubes. I have spent over 500 bucks on NOS Tubes and I can tell you it sounds just fine with the stocks in.
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Post by ptrickamp on Jul 5, 2005 21:49:19 GMT -7
Tubes such as Groove tubes have the rating on the tag on the base of the tube as well as who tested it. mA stand for milliamp, a thousands of a amp. Also the higher the bias range within the range will break up quicker and sound warmer. Also there is on Dr Zs site a tube bias sheet that says 34 to 38mA per tube for the Route 66. I emailed him personally on this and he emailed back 28mA to 32mA. Twice I emailed with the same results and asked about the discrepancy, with no reply. I would love to know the correct bias range.( That usually is by ear within the range while doing a sound check playing).
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Post by Stumpy on Jul 5, 2005 22:15:40 GMT -7
if it gets too confusing, you can always buy a pod ;D
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Post by hambone on Jul 6, 2005 11:27:38 GMT -7
Something is wrong with your amp. I would check the tube bias first, then preamp tubes, then try new power tubes. My Rt 66 has very little "clean" headroom. It starts to give it up pretty early on. By 10 on the volume I'm definitely into the dirt, even with the eqs down a touch.
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Post by taswegian on Jul 19, 2005 6:19:09 GMT -7
Hey Storm, you got that amp fixed yet?
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Post by stormholloway on Jul 19, 2005 15:43:34 GMT -7
I had it fixed by a tech at a Z retailer in Santa Monica. To be honest, this amp just doesn't provide me with enough crunch. I think I'm gonna sell it.
I'm in the market for a Cornell 18/20.
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Post by taswegian on Jul 19, 2005 17:05:41 GMT -7
You're not going to get MORE crunch with the cornell just crunch at quieter volumes. I don't know that you can get "more" crunch than the 66 unless you're talking about a "modern rock" come metal type crunch, but thats just not going to happen with a vintage stlye amp on its own. I can pull the nastiest Pantera or Metallica sound on my 66 if I want/need to. (Not what I'm after personally) You just need the right gain boost. You might be after something a bit more "modern" in amps. I would hesitate to buy another "vintage" style amp (ie the cornell) if you feel you don't get enough crunch from the 66.
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Post by stormholloway on Jul 20, 2005 1:35:23 GMT -7
Hmm.. well I ran my OD-820 drive pedal through the 66 and still couldn't get good breakup. Honestly it felt like I was playing an acoustic--having to pick each and every little note to get it to play. The amp I had before this one was a Marshall plexi re-issue, and while it was loud, with the attenuator and my OD pedal, it really ripped. Still too loud for me, so I traded it.
I don't like modern/metal crunch at all. In fact I despise it. I ran the 66 up to 10 on volume and treble and I just didn't get the gain that I had hoped for or heard in the sound clips. I even feel like I got more gain out of the MAZ models that I played in the store.
I'm under the impression that I will get more crunch from the Cornell because it's based on the later plexi models. The 66 is based on the JTM 45 and I've heard the 66 is even less gainy than the JTM. Either the amp was poorly biased by the tech or this amp just isn't right for me. I'm a good guitar player but I want the leeway of being able to kinda roll my fingers across the fretboard and not have to pick at each note individually to hear them.
Jimmy Page had some incredible and classic gain sounds from his Marshall and that's kind of what I want. I realize he's an incredible guitar player but clearly his amp crunched and he was able to flick his fingers a bit. I just can't do that with this amp.
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Post by taswegian on Jul 20, 2005 3:06:23 GMT -7
I'm sorry about your amp. All I can say is I can pull a Jimi Page sound that all the Zep Tribute bands would kill for. I think classic 60's 70's rock is the amps forte! We actually played "The Immigrant Song" the other night in my band and occasionally we do "Black Dog" and "Since I've been loving you". I use no boosts or drive for these songs, just the amp. I would say it breaks up a little earlier and dirtier than a JTM 45. I could email you a small byte from my new album if you're interested in hearing how much it should crunch. Good Luck whatever way you go.
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