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Post by ringmod on Sept 18, 2009 6:21:46 GMT -7
One of the bands that I am in had an outdoor gig last night. Within moments of dialing in my tone with my R8 Les Paul and Remedy the sound man said "I can already tell you guys are gonna need to come waaaaay down". Haha, that hardly ever happens with my Maz 18, but the Remedy (half power) has some serious balls. I figured since we were outdoors I could let her rip. I was plugged straight in, no pedals, with a 1x12 cab loaded with a V30. Both loudness knobs were at noon but I came down to 9 oclock and used a Fulldrive. I suppose next time I should turn the amp around or something. I probably should get an Air Brake but damn I don't want to spend $300+ just do play quieter! I should've put the amp under the stage, hindsight is 20/20. www.myspace.com/dangerbirdlouisvillekydangerbirdtheband.blogspot.com Feel free to download our tunes.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Sept 18, 2009 7:58:11 GMT -7
I'm so tired of this whole attitude that the guy with the 20 watt amp is the problem, when they are putting literally kilowatts into the subs for the bass player and drummer. I almost said "don't get me started" but it looks like you already did...
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Post by faze on Sept 18, 2009 8:33:53 GMT -7
I had a similar situation take place about 2 weeks ago I did an outdoor concert and I got there early to set up and didn't even have the amp turned up that loud I also had the brake lite on 2 I mean I had it low volume wise. I struck up a conversation with one of the sound guys and he told me that once we started to play I need to turn way down. I was thinking to myself man I play this thing louder then this when I am indoors even at Church. I was like is this guy serious? I ended up turning it down. Then once we got started ended up dialing it in at the right level. It is crazy to me how many sound guys get all paranoid about us guitar players. Like Steve said it is true they usually have the bass and drums booming . I personally don't like having my amp miked because I control everything with my guitar volume. Also I am careful when I gig making sure I control the levels of my guitar tone so that I am not to loud or louder then the rest of the musicians or singers. Trust me playing in Church you learn that real quick. That's what being a musician is all about.. I do understand sound guys have a responsibility that they have to uphold.
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Post by ringmod on Sept 18, 2009 8:36:12 GMT -7
It was pretty much BS. This sound company does a lot of work around town so they think they are hot sh1t. Sometimes ya gotta let a loud arse rock band be loud, ya know?
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Post by English John on Sept 18, 2009 8:51:41 GMT -7
Tell him to F*&k off!!!!!! Your gig, play how you want! M
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Post by John on Sept 18, 2009 9:26:30 GMT -7
Here's my response: (as long as I know I'm not overly loud and the guy has a nasty attitude)
"There is going to be stage bleed, and if you're a good sound guy, you'll be able to deal with it.
Or
"It's a live band....not a recording mixdown."
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Sept 18, 2009 9:34:18 GMT -7
I'd be more receptive if the recordings I have made actually sounded right, but they never do. You can't hear the guitar solos because of the monstrous bass and drums happening. And don't get me started on the sax - that instrument cuts through like a knife, but they NEVER turn him down. All of his solos are at least as loud as the vocals. But not the guitar. I want equal time, dagnabbit! ;D
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Post by kruzty on Sept 18, 2009 9:36:07 GMT -7
Here's my response: (as long as I know I'm not overly loud and the guy has a nasty attitude) "There is going to be stage bleed, and if you're a good sound guy, you'll be able to deal with it. Or "It's a live band....not a recording mixdown." You'll really have to turn up, then, because you sure as heck won't be coming through the mains!
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Post by ringmod on Sept 18, 2009 10:42:34 GMT -7
I didn't think I was that loud but the Remedy is a pretty loud amp even at the half power setting. It probably didn't help that there wasn't a lot of people at the gig...
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Post by jammergreg on Sept 18, 2009 11:44:42 GMT -7
Get A Brake-Lite....Out-side @ 20 watts and a 10,000 watt sound system... I like my brake-lite, that being said...When ever I do a sound Check w/ the Ego of some sound-men I I turn my Les Paul Volume to 5 or 6 and say I'm all the way up...''Kiss My Grits'' :-*when drums and bass are at 300 watts I like a little insurance I can brake thru the Mix. Some sound people think they are in my band...I just grin and when I turn up from 5 to 10 they say it was good cause' of their sound check' he he he !
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Post by ringmod on Sept 18, 2009 11:56:27 GMT -7
Get A Brake-Lite....Out-side @ 20 watts and a 10,000 watt sound system... I like my brake-lite, that being said...When ever I do a sound Check w/ the Ego of some sound-men I I turn my Les Paul Volume to 5 or 6 and say I'm all the way up...''Kiss My Grits'' :-*when drums and bass are at 300 watts I like a little insurance I can brake thru the Mix. Some sound people think they are in my band...I just grin and when I turn up from 5 to 10 they say it was good cause' of their sound check' he he he ! I would get a brake-lite but I use heads not combos. I hear the brake lite is only for combo amps...
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Post by bluzman on Sept 18, 2009 12:13:33 GMT -7
I just say, "What?" and walk away.
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Post by jammergreg on Sept 18, 2009 12:15:45 GMT -7
I have a Remedy Head and a 1x12 convertible cab...I have a Brake-Lite....I just mounted it in the 1x12 cab w/ cabs inside mount just like combo cept' when you plug into speaker jack, you go through brake-like then speaker. It is a clean hard wire solution... You can mount it or use brake-like like a pedal to a wooden block like some have.. ATTENTION BRAKE-LITE IS NOT FOR COMBOS ONLY IT'S FOR HEADS AND CABS TOO JUST MAKE SHURE YOUR 45 WATTS OR UNDER. Mounting is a creative thing...Should I mount it or justs shake hands ? he he he !
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Post by ringmod on Sept 18, 2009 14:03:15 GMT -7
yep, I will get a brake lite from my good friends at willcutt guitar shoppe.
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Post by doctorice on Sept 18, 2009 14:30:10 GMT -7
yep, I will get a brake lite from my good friends at willcutt guitar shoppe. I just plop my Brake Lite on top of the Remedy and stick one of the BL's long-side edges under the amp handle. The BL is toward the front so it's not sitting on top of the Remedy's vent cover. Easy then to add or subtract "clicks" as desired. BTW, totally agree that most sound guys discriminate against us guitar players. I had to relocate where I stand in one band because in addition to the bass player being way up on stage volume the sound guys had him in the subwoofers. I was standing in front of the bass player's cabinets with one sub next to me.
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Post by asattwanger on Sept 19, 2009 14:22:34 GMT -7
Tell him to F*&k off!!!!!! Your gig, play how you want! M Exactly. I might not say that to anyone but that is what ends up happening. C'mon I'm playing a 15 watt amp or 2x 5 watt amps. I've had it the other way around before and had the organizor of a fashion show tell us we weren't loud enough during the break. The second half was to be the harder stuff for a different designer whom was worried we wouldn't come accross the right way for his line up. So, we mic'd my 4x12 and my buddy turned up his Marshall and we gave them a for real Nightly Death Shade set. I think that was coolest set we ever did with Phil The Rock Artist. That was also the only gig I did with that Les Paul I had.
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Post by cheycaster on Sept 19, 2009 18:00:25 GMT -7
Dang, now I'm gettin' mad.....soundmen
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Post by mtlrecords on Oct 2, 2009 6:55:47 GMT -7
A couple of ideas-
1) run a volume pedal after your pedals. This isn't a perfect solution, but a compromise that can allow you to use an overdrive pedal for the rock tone perfection you want and then just back off the volume pedal until you are getting the thumbs up from the FOH engineer.
2) Another thing I do when an engineer or "soundguy" is pissing me off challenging my volume- I knod and turn around, futz with my amp for a second (doing nothing in reality) and then nudge the volume pedal or guitar volume knob to about half of ifs current setting. He usually says this is better and we go. Once we get started, I just crank the volume and say "**** you this is my show and its too late now!"
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Oct 2, 2009 7:16:43 GMT -7
Our sound guy has given up telling me to turn down - he knows I won't do it. But I also know that he never puts me through the front, so my 20 or 40 watts is competing with the entire 10KW PA system. I'll ask him how it's sounding out front, and he always says "Well, you're a little loud...." and I'm thinking right, but not as loud as the drums or bass.
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Post by dock66 on Oct 2, 2009 7:59:44 GMT -7
Just ignore him,you're playing live with Remedy.
;D
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Oct 2, 2009 9:20:29 GMT -7
Just ignore him,you're playing live with Remedy. ;D Yep, got that action down.
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bluez
Full Member
Posts: 201
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Post by bluez on Oct 8, 2009 13:22:34 GMT -7
My favorite was when I was rolling in my 4X12 Marshall cab and the sound guy says, "you aren't going to aim that at me are you?" I hadn't even plugged it in yet! It was a big club, big stage, monster subs. Grrr.
At my last gig the soundman said, while I was playing alone during setup, ummm, that's going to be too loud. (How can he truly know without the rest of the band?) I said, "It's 18 watts!" So I thought I'd try to be nice and turn down. We started soundcheck and, you guessed right, I couldn't hear it at all. So at the first opportunity I walked over to the mic and said I couldn't hear anything and he shrugs his shoulders.... so I said, "OK two options, I turn up or you put some in my monitor. So he gives me a little and says "how's that?" I still couldn't hear very much so I said, "if you can't make that work, I need to turn up a little." He was grumpy after that. I turned up to my normal volume that I use at every gig and practice and was really wondering why I bothered trying to make nice. I Have the Maz Jr with the master between noon and 2 o'clock and volume at about 2 O'clock. All that to say is that I guess it's a fact of gigging that we will sometime have to play "the soundman game".
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Post by bobbyray on Oct 14, 2009 12:27:45 GMT -7
Here's my take. If I'm not louder than the snare drum...I don't turn down. Period.
Sometimes you have to tell the soundman, "My job is to get a great guitar tone on stage, yours it make it all sound good out front. Do your job and I'll do mine."
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Post by John on Oct 14, 2009 12:34:47 GMT -7
If I'm not louder than the snare drum...I don't turn down. Period. Maybe I'll get that silk screened on the front of my cabinet.
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Post by bobbyray on Oct 14, 2009 12:38:05 GMT -7
Here's my response: (as long as I know I'm not overly loud and the guy has a nasty attitude) "There is going to be stage bleed, and if you're a good sound guy, you'll be able to deal with it. Or "It's a live band....not a recording mixdown." You'll really have to turn up, then, because you sure as heck won't be coming through the mains! That's true. I've made sure to ask someone I trust about the mix after about two-three songs when dealing with a difficult soundman. I let him know, that I need to come up in the mix and I do it politely. If he does not comply and starts to ruin the mix. I let the crowd know exactly who is responsible, and even point him out. Later I make sure he knows to stay the hell away from me if he likes his knee caps in place. I then speak with whoever hired the incompetent goof, and relay every detail and why they aren't getting thier money's worth.
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Post by bobbyray on Oct 14, 2009 12:45:02 GMT -7
If I'm not louder than the snare drum...I don't turn down. Period. Maybe I'll get that silk screened on the front of my cabinet. It should be a T-Shirt for cripe's sake.
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Post by Andy 67 on Oct 19, 2009 11:00:59 GMT -7
Well, I can see that grumpy soundmen are everywhere! At an outdoors gig last summer, the other guitar player was playing through his 100W Peavey, and the soundman told me to turn my MAZ Jr. down! As the old saying says "sh*t happens everywhere". Keep on rockin'!
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Post by mtlrecords on Oct 21, 2009 14:06:32 GMT -7
I know that if I am not getting the right sounds out of my amp(s)-which means being fairly loud- I am not going to play my best. It's that simple.
So I put the performance first and the complaints of the soundguy somewhere much lower on the list. It's rock and roll, dammit! I didn't get into this to be told "You're too loud." It's NOT the soundguy show.
Luckily, I haven't been hearing many complaints lately. Bigger stages and good performances in front of larger audiences tend to help this problem. The more people, and the more fun people are having, the less soundguys/bar owners care about this stuff.
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Post by prspastor on Oct 29, 2009 12:26:03 GMT -7
Check it... At a medium size open-venue, plugged straight into my Carmen Ghia, Brake Lite on "2", Volume at 12:00, playing through a 1x12 with Greenback! Soundguy says, "Turn it down!". I just looked at him incredulously...
The guy had six Crown amps throwing wattage everywhere, and he's worried about my 18 watts?!!? Give me a break.
So I said, "just don't mike me, I need this volume level for the tone." He said, "No, I've got to mike you to spread out the sound." I don't get it, really don't get it...
BTW, the bass and drums were thundering... vibrating the stage all over the place.
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Post by Joey Beverages on Oct 30, 2009 3:51:26 GMT -7
Check it .... was at a smaller sized place last nite, Remedy w/112 Z cab with some pedals (Draconis, Deelay and J-Drive) - guitars used included a HWY 1 Strat, PRS McCarty and EBMM Super Sport. Volumes @ 12:00 and 11:30; Bass @ 11:00, Mid @ 12:00 and Treb @ 12:00. Full power. Unmic'd, against drums, vox, bass, keys and another guitar running thru the p.a. ..... Remedy rawksVolume was good. Sound was good. A coupla folks said I played good .... no volume complaints, no tone complaints and no complaints about my hackin' and slashin' on guitar. ;D cheers always, eh Joel
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