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Post by propellr on Sept 23, 2007 8:45:35 GMT -7
My quest for a portable tube combo amp has had me hovering here on the forum, as well as ebay and craigslist, anticipating the release of the new Mini Z head. The new Mini Z head is going to be like Tickle Me Elmo this Christmas and I'll be waiting in the wings to snatch somebody's castoff combo. Why, do you ask, won't I be standing in line for a Mini Z head? Well, the short answer is that I'm particular, or maybe it's that I want what I want. Here's the long answer:
1) I'd have to buy a cab 2) I would lose some portability 3) I'd end up spending hundreds more on the head + cab 4) I already have a Z-Brake 5) The combo will fit nicely under my desk at work for after hours stress relief 6) I've heard such good things about the 8" Weber and how it works so well with the Mini 7) I don't want to run a head through my Maz combo (it defeats my purpose for the Mini) 8) Simplicity is important to me
There's a Mini Z on ebay that I'm watching (auction ends tomorrow) and there's one on craigslist in Michigan I could get, but I've not moved on one for mostly one reason (other than I'd rather buy from one of you here on the forum). There's this burning question in the back of my mind: Will the smile factor (gestalt) of the Mini Z outweigh the low headroom? Well, fellas? In framing your answers, keep in mind that I am a straight-ahead rhythm player and that I strum my ES-335 as if it were an acoustic guitar that died and went to heaven. I'd love to play like smoldering Billy Gibbons, but I can't do that kind of work and really have no use for that kind of break-up. For my sound, I prefer sparkling Tom Petty or even acidic Elvis Costello, but that'd be as dirty as I would go.
My quest has also, more recently, led me to Michael Swart's doorstep-- more specifically, to his Space Tone Tweed ST-6V6se. Who here has played one of these? Do any of you own one? Did any of you choose the 5w Swart over the Mini Z? If so, why? While I can compare the written specs of this amp with those of the Mini Z, I don't know how the specs translate to overall sound.
If I got a Mini Z, would a tube change get me more headroom? How about one of these Swart 5 watts? Thoughts?
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Post by aj1169 on Sept 23, 2007 9:07:02 GMT -7
I've never played the Swart, but I own a Mini Z and I have played through a tweed champ, which I believe the Swart is based on. My thoughts were that the tweed had a little more head room than the Mini Z. The Mini is a pretty crunchy amp right from the get-go, and that's with single coil guitars. If you keep the volume around the 9 o'clock range and don't strum very hard, you can get a nice "hot clean tone". I describe it that way because even when going for clean tones, you're just a step away from breakup. The amp is super responsive this way, and if you do want to get some dirt at times, this amp really shines at giving those tones at volume levels that anyone can get along with. For my playing styles, I chose the Mini over the tweed Champ, but I do tend to like a little grit in my tone. I know this doesn't directly answer your question since I've never heard the Swart, but I hope it helps some.
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Post by Nick G. on Sept 23, 2007 10:43:40 GMT -7
Hi there.
Both are great amps, but I'm not sure if the Mini Z quite fits the tone you're after.
I've had both and neither has much headroom. Breakup happens on both amps right around conversation volume. More headroom from the Swart (it still breaks up early as well), but in a tweedish flavor rather than a more Marshally character for the Mini Z. IMO, nothing sparkly about the Mini Z's cleans/slightly dirty sounds. I really liked those slightly dirty sounds from the Z, but YMMV. I play single-coils and I had to set the Mini's volume at 9 o'clock or less AND roll back the guitar volume to get a clean sound. The good DR didn't design the Mini primarily for that type of tone. With you mentioning Petty-ish sounds, I'd recommend the Swart 6V6se over the Mini in this case. Don't get me wrong, the Mini is FABULOUS.
I LOVED the Mini @ 3 o'clock for ZZ Top and Van Halen type sounds. It absolutely excells at lower-wattage power tube grind (it's LOUD), but you could be disappointed if you're looking for cleanish or slightly overdriven sounds with some sparkle. Just my opinion and I hope that helps.
-Nick
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Post by propellr on Sept 23, 2007 13:37:27 GMT -7
Thanks for that, aj1169. Yeah, the Swart site talks about his Tweed's circuit as derivative of Fender's Princeton and Champ amps. It helps to get your opinion that the Champ has a little more headroom than the Mini Z. And NG, I knew that neither one of these amps has much headroom, but Swart says he'll send you different tubes if you want more access to clean tones. I was wondering if a tube swap in a Mini Z would offer more headroom. I know my Fender Princeton didn't have enough headroom for my humbuckers, but that's before I even knew that different tubes might have corrected that problem.
I welcome more thoughts and/or suggestions...
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Post by Nick G. on Sept 23, 2007 13:55:50 GMT -7
I never changed tubes on either, but I too would be interested in the results.
I'll also echo some sentiments I've read here about the Mini's speaker: it sounds HUGE. I had the 6V6se first and loved the tone. When I got the Mini, I was blown away by how big it sounded in comparison to the Swart. Both are great amps and very different sounding. Get both! ;D
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Post by noisemaker on Sept 23, 2007 14:01:16 GMT -7
Possibly find an old BF/SF Princeton non reverb? Very nice clean, hardly any overdrive at all. Still very light and portable. But all Z amps rock, even the little one. I've never even played the mini Z, but I know it has to sound amazing.
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Post by propellr on Sept 23, 2007 19:05:06 GMT -7
dbdoctor, Why a non-reverb Princeton? Maybe I'll get an old Princeton that needs work and have somebody mod it real good. I didn't mod mine in part because it was stock when I got it. I had a Silverface Princeton Reverb and loved everything about it, except that it wouldn't stay clean enough (I hear myself saying that and know it means neither one of these 5 watters will have the headroom I want at rehearsal volumes.) The thing is, my Princeton had a loose low end and lost a significant amount of articulation when overdriven, so, by contrast, I think these cool tiny amps are still worth pursuing.
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Post by noisemaker on Sept 23, 2007 19:30:57 GMT -7
It sounds like you have had experience with them? I'm not sure whether reverb/non would be cleaner one way or the other. I have never played a reverb model, so I wouldn't really know. With tubes/speakers etc. you may be able to make one work. Maybe if you could find one to play and see if you like it? Volume and headroom are very subjective, really the only way to tell is in person.
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Post by propellr on Sept 23, 2007 20:17:00 GMT -7
I hear you, dbdoctor. Subjective, indeed. Yeah, I forgot about how a speaker change can add headroom. I'm still looking to hear a compare/contrast review of these two 5-watters. Perhaps the new work week will bring one around.
What about a Fender Pro Junior? The price is right, Bob, but what's the catch? Some of you are like, "The catch is, it's a Fender Pro Junior." What would it take to make one sweet?
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Post by dirtymatt on Sept 24, 2007 6:45:43 GMT -7
What about a Fender Pro Junior? The price is right, Bob, but what's the catch? Some of you are like, "The catch is, it's a Fender Pro Junior." What would it take to make one sweet? The only real 'catch' (imo) with the PJ is the PCB mounted jacks and pots. Other than that, they're a pretty good value. You can pick one up used for just over $200...they make great little grab and go small club amps on their own.
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Post by propellr on Sept 24, 2007 12:15:18 GMT -7
I took the afternoon off to take my son to the doctor and we went to the guitar store afterwards and checked out a "Blues" Junior. Man, what a stinker. Pardon me if I slap down my amp snob gold card whilst I exclaim, "Yuck." I'd get a better overdrive out of my toaster oven. Mind you, clean, the thing sang right out, but driven, a bit like a transistor radio. I'll be keeping my $450, TYVM. (I know they are pretty cheap used blah blah blah, but I also know that Miss Congeniality over there is only one cup size away from being first runner up). I have no idea what I meant by that in a linear sense, so if you got that, you might be left handed. At any rate, I'll probably talk to Myles or somebody about the $$ involved in modding a Pro Junior. I'd love to try out skydog958's Mini Z in Charlottesville or, better yet, a Mini Z from anyone here in the Metro Richmond area. Aside from test driving a Mini Z, I'll most likely have Stu from Fat Sound ship me a Swart for a weekend trial. THe worst that could happen is that I would love it and have to pay for it. Something tells me that'd still be a better value in the long run than going to the Mod Squad.
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Post by propellr on Sept 25, 2007 12:04:13 GMT -7
Myles answered my question about the Junior. He said (paraphrased) that modding them was tricky and not worth it, but he told me what to do as far as tubes are concerned. Here's the post between us, for your reading pleasure:
Here's the short question: Can you make a Pro Junior SING for under $800, including the cost of the amp? (Feel free to insert the name of any inexpensive production-line low-wattage amp in place of the FPJ.) Next question: If yes, then would you?
I'm looking for a portable tube combo amp for my attic rehearsal space. It would also serve as a plug-and-play amp for songwriting and living room jams, not to mention using it while on vacation and on recording projects. I'd like to use it to play small clubs (mic'd to the PA would be fine with me). Sometimes my Maz 38 combo is too big. It certainly will not be hoisted up the attic stairs any time soon. I am investigating getting a used Mini Z combo, but am concerned that in a live situation with a drummer and with my ES-335, the Mini's smile factor may turn upside-down (I might miss the headroom I prefer in other situations). I also am looking at the Swart Space Tone 6v6se. At least with the Swart, I don't have to scour the internet to make a purchase (and I can try one out before I buy). I fully understand that neither one of these amps has clean headroom above, say, television volumes, but I'd like to know if there's anything out there in a 15 watt amp (packaged in a combo like these 5-watt amps) that I would enjoy playing more than I already know I would enjoy either one of these (even without headroom).
The Fender Pro Junior is what it is and a cool amp for the $$$$
I would not spend anything to change it or mod it. The construction does not lend itself to mods easily and the amps can become quite noisy and unstable if changed from the factory design.
Keep in mind that this is one of the few EL84 amps that is grid biased and not cathode biased. This means it will never sound, feel or play like a cathode biased amp which isn't a good or bad thing just a point to consider if you plan on thinking it can sound like a Vox AC15 or something.
Get rid of the stock EL84R tubes and replace with a duet of EL84S tubes in the same general rating as this amp is a fixed bias amp and NOT self biasing as other EL84 amps.
Follow the GT/Fender color code to get the proper rating tubes.
Replace V1 if it is a 12AX7R with a 12AX7C or 12AX7R3.
That is about as good as it will get.
They are fun amps.
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Post by taswegian on Sept 27, 2007 3:38:56 GMT -7
I reckon the combo is just as easy to use as a head, as a head! Plus you get that gnarly little 8 incher and that very nicely tuned cab.
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crikey
Junior Member
Posts: 57
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Post by crikey on Oct 24, 2007 1:45:34 GMT -7
Interesting set of requirements. My Mini-Z starts to grind like a Marshall way under the volume level of a rehearsal with a drummer, unless it was a jazz drummer with a cocktail kit. So if you're looking for light breakup/sparkle/chime loud enough to hang with a drummer, the Mini-Z might not do it. Well, maybe if you put in lower-gain preamp tubes and ran it into a 1x12 with a Celestion Alnico Blue . . .
I'm guessing the Swart is going to have a tweed Fender sound. That's an overdriven blues kind of sound that doesn't remind me of Tom Petty sparkle either.
I see advantages in your Fender Pro Junior idea. It's light, compact, and cheap, but with 15W it might hang with a drummer. It has an external speaker jack, if you needed that. If you found one used, you could get it without spending much, try it out, and sell it on if it didn't work for you.
If you really want to hang with a drummer and play club gigs, you might consider a Vox AC15CC1 combo, or a Dr. Z Carmen Ghia combo. Both of those will get you your Tom Petty sparkle and the headroom to not sound like Neil Young (or Judas Priest) while keeping up with a drummer. But with those amps, you're getting into a size and weight that you might not want to haul up your stairs.
To my way of thinking, my Mini-Z is for home use, where I can play in my living room without pissing off the people next door, or for playing with other guitarists in their living rooms. If I don't want the grind, I just don't turn it up that loud, and it works for home.
I've never really thought to try taking it somewhere with a drummer. I use a bigger amp for that. If you're planning to keep your MAZ 38, then maybe you could haul a Mini-Z or Pro Junior around the house and use the Z for playing out.
Good luck to you!
Crikey
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