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Post by guitarman1 on Jan 23, 2006 9:34:14 GMT -7
I just got my Ghia last week on Ebay and did some experimenting with some tubes yesterday. It came tubed with a GT 12AX7/7025 in V1, GE 5751 in V2, 1 Mazda GY3GB rectifier and 2 GT EL-84s. Since I didn't have any other 5751s, I did my testing with 12AX7s in V1. These are the tubes I tried. Tung Sol 12AX7 - New Re-issue GT 12AX7/7025 GT 12AX7M JJ ECC83 JJ ECC803 EH 12AX7 NOS JAN Phillips 12AX7 Svetlana 12AX7 What I was looking for was an open, sparkling top end, open mids with clarity and warmth, and an open, tight low end. I like to play Blues, Soul & Jazz from clean to moderate breakup settings. I did these tests with the volume between 9 to 11 o'clock and tone at 2 o'clock using a Strat with Fralin Blues single coils. I'll try not to bore you with too many adjectives or cliches. I was pleasantly surprised by the new JJ ECC803, as it possessed all of these qualities. The GT 12AX7M was a close second with nice top end and mid warmth, but didn't have quite the mid/low clarity of the JJ. The rest ranked as follows: 3) Svetlana 4) JJ ECC83 5) NOS JAN Phillips 12AX7 6) Tung Sol 7) GT 12AX7/7025 8) EH The last three in the list sounded very close, with negligible differences. I'd like to ad that the GT12AX7M rings somewhat when tapped with my fingernail. I've been using another one of these in my Bogner Shiva and then moved it to the Maz for about a year with no problems. I bought two of the JJ ECC803s and one of them rings badly when tapped with my fingernail. All of the other tubes work fine. I bought the ECC803s, GT 12AX7Ms and Tung Sols from Doug's Tubes. He said he'll take back the two ringers (pun intended). Doug tests his tubes and marks the values on the glass. The ECC803 were 95/100, 100/95, the GT 12AX7M was 95/100, and the Tung Sols were 110/110, 110/105. IMHO, the JJ ECC803 is the best sounding new production tube for V1 in the Carmen Ghia for my style of music. The results may have been different if I was going for a cranked Rock tone. I just hope JJ has a low percentage of noisy ones. Doug sells these for $12.00 each. For $21.00, I'm a bit disappointed by the GT 12AX7M. Though it was my second favorite in tone, I expect NO noise for that kind of money. I had really high hopes for the new Tung Sol 12AX7, but it was just OK with the Ghia. Maybe it will sound better in my Maz as I hear they're good multiple gain stages. This tube has been getting great reviews on other forums. I think I'll pop it back in the Ghia and dime it. Maybe that's where it will shine. This is my first tube purchase from Doug and his service has been great. He shipped them out quickly and also stands behind his product. He told me to send back the noisy ones for an exchange...no questions. Doug is also recommended by Myles on his Amplifier Blueprinting website.
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Post by zdogma on Jan 24, 2006 7:28:09 GMT -7
That's a lot of work. Will give the 803's a try based on your opinion.
I find the 12ax7M reasonably quiet for a higher gain 12ax7, maybe you had a bad one?
My own personal favorites are seimens or telefunken NOS ecc83's for the sound you are describing, but the price is steep, and there are so many fakes and scams out there that its hardly worth the effort.
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Post by guitarman1 on Jan 24, 2006 8:20:06 GMT -7
That's a lot of work. Will give the 803's a try based on your opinion. I find the 12ax7M reasonably quiet for a higher gain 12ax7, maybe you had a bad one? My own personal favorites are seimens or telefunken NOS ecc83's for the sound you are describing, but the price is steep, and there are so many fakes and scams out there that its hardly worth the effort. Yes, I agree with you on the NOS tubes. They can sound great if you get a good one, but man, some of those NOS 12AX7s do cost a fortune. $115.00 for a Mullard? There still seems to be allot of NOS 5751s, 12AT7s and rectifiers that are reasonably priced and not so picked over, so I do buy those. I'm done "chasing the dragon" for NOS 12AX7s. Hopefully these JJ 803s will last a reasonable amount of time. The GT 12AX7M isn't that bad...just a slight ring when tapped. I'm just too cheap to expect anything but perfection from a NEW $21.00 tube. Both the JJ & GT are long plates, so I guess they're more susceptible to mechanical noise than short plates. FYI, I got a NOS Mullard 12AT7 for about $15.00 (I think) with this shipment and replaced a JJ ECC81 in V3 of my Maz Sr. I couldn't hear any difference. I also got a GE 5Y3 and swapped it out with the Mazda 5Y3GB in my Ghia. I couldn't detect any difference with those 2 either. Please let me know how the JJ 803 works out for you. I'm very interested in other player's opinions.
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Post by StrangeC on Jan 24, 2006 11:21:40 GMT -7
Guitarman, Very useful stuff. I am in the process of considering some tubes for my Ghia. I havent touched what was inthere when I got it new. I changed the speaker from a V30 to a G12M Greenback. I play more rock and play a R9 Les Paul and a Classic Player Strat. Usually set the Ghia aroudn 1-2:00 with tone from 12-2:00. Any advice on the best rock tube?
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Post by guitarman1 on Jan 24, 2006 12:05:11 GMT -7
Guitarman, Very useful stuff. I am in the process of considering some tubes for my Ghia. I havent touched what was inthere when I got it new. I changed the speaker from a V30 to a G12M Greenback. I play more rock and play a R9 Les Paul and a Classic Player Strat. Usually set the Ghia aroudn 1-2:00 with tone from 12-2:00. Any advice on the best rock tube? Hi Rick and glad to hear some of my fumbling around might help out another player. I'm going to go through some of these tubes again in V1, only this time I'm concentrating on cranked rock tones with my PRS Custom 22. That might give you an idea of these tubes with a Les Paul. Those 2 Tung Sols benched out pretty hot, and they did give a little more earlier break up than the GT & JJ. I'll post back with the results.
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Post by StrangeC on Jan 24, 2006 14:24:41 GMT -7
Excellent! I have a '94 PRS Custom 24 with the HFS bridge PU so should correlate nicely.
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Post by niko on Jan 27, 2006 13:14:24 GMT -7
Hello guys I'm looking for a V1 with low gain but the same sound that actually (beautilful), to have a breakup about 3 o'clock with my Jazz-a-caster (Jazzmaster pickups) instead of 10. Should I try a 12AT7 or a 12 AU7 ? Thanks for your help. Nico (France)
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Post by zdogma on Jan 27, 2006 13:21:49 GMT -7
Allo nico. Essayez un lampe 5751 en V1 premierement. Le son est un peu plus "fat" que le 12at ou 12au, et avec un tele il commence "breakup" a environ 2-3hr. Je pense que les jazzmasters sont semblables.
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Post by bluzsteel on Jan 27, 2006 13:52:42 GMT -7
Z sent me 2 Svetlana 12AX7's to put in V1 and V2 ....I like em
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Post by guitarman1 on Jan 27, 2006 14:03:41 GMT -7
Z sent me 2 Svetlana 12AX7's to put in V1 and V2 ....I like em The Svets are a nice quiet tube with some warmth, but they are a bit veiled sounding IMHO. The JJ 803 & GT 12AX7M have the warmth and the clarity. The JJ is a bit more open than the GT. Try one bluzsteel...you may be pleasantly surprised.
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Post by niko on Jan 27, 2006 14:18:58 GMT -7
Allo nico. Essayez un lampe 5751 en V1 premierement. Le son est un peu plus "fat" que le 12at ou 12au, et avec un tele il commence "breakup" a environ 2-3hr. Je pense que les jazzmasters sont semblables. Merci beaucoup pour ta réponse. Je vais essayer avec un autre 5751. En plus de ma Jazzacaster, j'utilise principalement un Tele like avec un Fralin Overwound 10k en Bridge. (Thanks a lot for your answer.I'm going to try with an other 5751 in V1. Moreover my jazzacaster, I frequently play my Tele like with a Fralin 10k in Bridge position).
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Post by myles on Feb 3, 2006 20:52:17 GMT -7
That's a lot of work. Will give the 803's a try based on your opinion. I find the 12ax7M reasonably quiet for a higher gain 12ax7, maybe you had a bad one? My own personal favorites are seimens or telefunken NOS ecc83's for the sound you are describing, but the price is steep, and there are so many fakes and scams out there that its hardly worth the effort. I like M's in a lot of amps but NOT in my Carmen Ghia. The GT-12AX7M is too dark in my CG or actually, does not have the clarity of a long smooth plate. I actually have an NOS Telefunken in my CG and I normally am not a fan of Telefunkens in any of my amps .... but ... in the CG I like it a lot. A tube like the Telefunken ... long smooth plate ... and actually made on the Telefunken tooling or copies of that tooling is the Ei 7025. These are generally very low on current and have a very high rejection rate ... and can go physically microphonic out of nowhere ... but ... when you find a good one it is a great cheap version of a Telefunken. If you get these from a vendor with a good warranty you might find a great tube for the Ghia to my ears anyway. Watch out testing these on a VTV tester though ... their plate resistance is very low and they will fool the VTV tester and read high gain. High gain maybe but LOW current. I have seen these at 0.4mA - 0.6mA (1/3 - 1/2 of what is book spec) on over 60% of these from very large factory runs. At GT the reject rate on these is about 60% and one factory run yielded a 90% reject rate. For folks in L.A. that want to drop by and try one of these that have been tested, traced, and spec'd I would be happy to let you play with one.
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Post by G'OlPeachPhan on Feb 9, 2006 19:51:19 GMT -7
I agree, the JJ 803 is a great tube for exactly the qualities you describe, and I dig them in a Ghia for clean all the way to medium breakup... For the rock tones there are better choices...
Rick - my favorite rock tubes in V1 of the Ghia are the EH 12ax7 and the new Tung Sol reissue 12ax7. Both sound great driven and seem to be fairly similar, but I haven't had the Tung Sol's long enough to really get to know them. I've had a long love affair with the drive tones of the EH, and it's a great rock tube!
Incidentally, I bought a pair JJ 803's from Doug as well, and one of the two is pretty badly microphonic... it sounded good, but it rings quite noticably. I hope this isn't a trend, as that can be a frustrating problem.
As Myles mentioned, the Ei is also a great tube for similar tones to what I like the JJ 803 for, but I've struggled for years to find good ones that don't go microphonic right away... I've found it takes about 4 of them to get one good one. Once again, I hope that doesn't prove true of the JJ 803, as it's really a nice sounding tube!
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Post by humphreyaudio on Mar 26, 2006 18:46:50 GMT -7
Z sent me 2 Svetlana 12AX7's to put in V1 and V2 ....I like em Me too!! Love the Svets in V1 an 2 I use a JJ ECC803 in PI, and the tone of the three together can best be described as dimensional. I can discern the low, mids, and highs of the amp at all times, even with drive pedals activated. I never even considered listening to an amplifier in these terms before. It never crossed my mind. Now when playing live, I automatically hear it this way. Nothing in the amps tone gets in the way of the other elements. VERY Hi-Fi sounding. Mark Humphrey Humphrey Audio And "The Mark Humphrey Band"
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Post by pedalcr8z on Mar 27, 2006 7:15:19 GMT -7
Humphrey......thought you should read this from The Tube Store concerning the ECC-803.....
Note: Because this tube has a long plate structure it is not recommended for use in combo amps. For these amps the JJ / Tesla ECC83-S is a better choice.
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Post by terryg on Mar 27, 2006 13:48:05 GMT -7
FWIW regarding NOS in V1, I'm real happy with the RCA 12AX7A from Mike K. (I think I got an "ANOS" one to try). Bright and strong!
I'm thinking of trying a 12AT7 as a PI, just to see what the difference in current will do. Anyone doing this now? I'm currently running an RCA 5751, and I'm happy with it....I'm just curious.
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Post by humphreyaudio on Mar 27, 2006 20:56:03 GMT -7
Humphrey......thought you should read this from The Tube Store concerning the ECC-803..... Note: Because this tube has a long plate structure it is not recommended for use in combo amps. For these amps the JJ / Tesla ECC83-S is a better choice. Thanks, I don't care at all for the JJ ECC83s in the MAZ 18. Too harsh in the upper mids, and the tone gets masked by this unfortunate byproduct. I use the Svets for this reason. They cure the harshness. I am aware of the warnings concerning the ECC803, and Bob at Euro Tubes says the same, however the worst that can happen is that I'll shell it and replace it. I've rolled alot of different tubes through PI, and the JJ ECC803 is among the very best so far. Great discussion. Thanks, Mark Humphrey Humphrey Audio
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Post by G'OlPeachPhan on Mar 28, 2006 9:15:05 GMT -7
Mark, I agree with you... I don't like the 803 in my Lightning clone either, which has much more in common with a Maz18 that it does with a Ghia...
That said, I TOTALLY dig the 803's in V1 of the Ghia!
Yep, I think it's a great PI tube choice as well.
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Post by guitarman1 on Mar 28, 2006 14:57:27 GMT -7
You guys say you are using the 803s for your PI and they sound good, right?
Did you buy these tested for balance? From reading many of Myle's posts, he states that both sides should be balanced in a PI.
Am I missing something? Straighten me out on this guys.
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Post by zdogma on Mar 28, 2006 20:57:31 GMT -7
I usually used balanced 5751's for PI. Most of the tube places will pick out matched triodes for a fee (including the 803's)
Speaking of the 803's I like them in V1 of my ghia, too. I think they are my favorite new tube, thanks for the suggestion. Karma for that.
Nos siemens are still my favorite Ghia V1's (or telefunken, but I only have 1 left), but the 803's are a close second.
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Post by G'OlPeachPhan on Mar 29, 2006 7:24:34 GMT -7
Yes, the 803's I put in the PI spot are balanced. However, sorry for the confusion... I stated that I like the 803 as a phase inverter, and given that this is the Ghia forum, you were right to assume that I meant I was using an 803 as the PI in my Ghia... I stated incorrectly though -- I'm in agreement with zdogma about using a 5751 as the PI in a Ghia... you can certainly use other tubes such as 12ax7 types (including the 803) or even go the other way with a 12BH7, but I think the 5751 is the nicest middle ground, and usually the tube I prefer.
The 803 makes a fine phase inverter in other amps though, and it wouldn't sound BAD in a Ghia, but you'd lose headroom.
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Post by guitarman1 on Mar 29, 2006 13:21:34 GMT -7
I usually used balanced 5751's for PI. Most of the tube places will pick out matched triodes for a fee (including the 803's) Speaking of the 803's I like them in V1 of my ghia, too. I think they are my favorite new tube, thanks for the suggestion. Karma for that. Nos siemens are still my favorite Ghia V1's (or telefunken, but I only have 1 left), but the 803's are a close second. Thanks a bunch Zdogma. Glad the 803 works for you.
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Post by guitarman1 on Mar 29, 2006 13:23:05 GMT -7
Yes, the 803's I put in the PI spot are balanced. However, sorry for the confusion... I stated that I like the 803 as a phase inverter, and given that this is the Ghia forum, you were right to assume that I meant I was using an 803 as the PI in my Ghia... I stated incorrectly though -- I'm in agreement with zdogma about using a 5751 as the PI in a Ghia... you can certainly use other tubes such as 12ax7 types (including the 803) or even go the other way with a 12BH7, but I think the 5751 is the nicest middle ground, and usually the tube I prefer. The 803 makes a fine phase inverter in other amps though, and it wouldn't sound BAD in a Ghia, but you'd lose headroom. Thanks for the clarification Peach.
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Post by G'OlPeachPhan on Apr 3, 2006 7:48:19 GMT -7
no prob!
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Post by bustertheboy on Apr 8, 2006 18:15:41 GMT -7
try nos GE 12ax7- red script writing with a nos JAN 5751 also GE but green lots of detailed drive- enough detail for humbuckers and detailed but not too bright for teles and strats have fun
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