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Post by jcshirke on Dec 22, 2006 11:10:37 GMT -7
Hi,
I'm on the verge of getting a new AC30 CC2 and having it modded to be a tone monster. However, I also have played (and love) the Maz Sr.
My question: Are these two amps sufficiently different to merit owning both? I know the Zs have their own "flavor" and aren't a copy of any particular amp. But how much "Vox flavor" is in the Z 38?
Thanks,
Jeff
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Post by kruzty on Dec 22, 2006 11:23:39 GMT -7
Instead of getting a new amp and modding it (I assume voiding the warranty), I think a Z will be a better bet. A Maz 38 would be good as you can get several different amp flavors with it. Maybe a StangRay or RXES. The good thing about ALL Z's is that they are already tone monsters.
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Post by jcshirke on Dec 22, 2006 13:16:50 GMT -7
Instead of getting a new amp and modding it (I assume voiding the warranty)] [, I think a Z will be a better bet. A Maz 38 would be good as you can get several different amp flavors with it. Maybe a StangRay or RXES. The good thing about ALL Z's is that they are already tone monsters. I won't be buying it new. I'm looking for a deal on a used one. And, yes, I'd be voiding the warranty in about 30 different ways. I appreciate the reply, but the short version of my response is that I am getting another AC30, and I'm going to have it modded in a way that is similar, but not identical to the AC30 I already have. My question is, how much is the Maz Sr like a top-quality (that is to say, JMI or modded reissue) AC30? The reason I want to know is because for my other rig (that has a Tone King Meteor II and a Germino in it), I want another amp that sits somewhere in between these two tone wise. I will either get a Dr Z (prob. the Maz Sr.) *or* I could possibly just get double duty out of my second AC30 and use it with both my rigs. So, again, how AC30-like is the Maz 38? If the answer is "well, it has some AC30 sounds in it, but it's really a different animal", then I'll still go with the Maz Sr. Thanks, Jeff
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Post by dock66 on Dec 22, 2006 14:25:51 GMT -7
You have just answered your question in the your last paragraph. ;D
Maz 38 Sr is a phenomenal amp.
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Post by (8^D) on Dec 22, 2006 17:21:08 GMT -7
I first owned a new AC30CC2 and hot rodded it. Sounded great. Unreliable as all get out and HEAVY.
I picked up a Maz Sr and the AC30 never got used again. The Sr has all the Vox tone with a Z flavor. You can also get into Marshall, Fender and Matchless tones with different use of the Volume/Master levels and tone settings, and speaker selections if you like to tweak. The tone between the Z and Vox wasn't even on the same level - the Maz had this wonderful 3-dimensional character that made the Vox sound like it was housed in a cardboard box. Was quite an eye opener.
2nd issue, the new Vox is PCB/circuitboard based - including some tube sockets direct mounted. The Z's are point-to-point, extremely roadworthy, easy to retube (try to swap a bad power or pre tube onstage w/the AC30).
Last issue, the weight of the AC30CC2 made it a real pain to haul around...especially if you put it in a roadcase...well over 100lbs.
Sold the AC w/out any reservation. The new AC30CC series will continue to depreciate while the Maz will continue to appreciate...a much better investment in the longhaul too.
Maz is a great amp!
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Post by jcshirke on Dec 22, 2006 21:55:26 GMT -7
I first owned a new AC30CC2 and hot rodded it. Sounded great. Unreliable as all get out and HEAVY. I picked up a Maz Sr and the AC30 never got used again. The Sr has all the Vox tone with a Z flavor. You can also get into Marshall, Fender and Matchless tones with different use of the Volume/Master levels and tone settings, and speaker selections if you like to tweak. The tone between the Z and Vox wasn't even on the same level - the Maz had this wonderful 3-dimensional character that made the Vox sound like it was housed in a cardboard box. Was quite an eye opener. 2nd issue, the new Vox is PCB/circuitboard based - including some tube sockets direct mounted. The Z's are point-to-point, extremely roadworthy, easy to retube (try to swap a bad power or pre tube onstage w/the AC30). Lots to reply to here: 1. The new Voxes are reliable, and they are designed much better than the Korg/Marshall era Voxes. I own one of the Korg/Marshall Voxes already, like I said. I've been researching the build quality on the Chinese amps a lot lately (because, like you, I had serious, serious doubts at first), and I trust the Vox mod gurus (three of whom I've been in touch with directly) who say the CC2s are built better and designed better than the ones made in England the last decade and a half. If you had any trouble with yours, it was probably the typical stuff that happens during shipping--bad tubes, maybe a bad reverb tank (which Vox has acknowledged and fixed), or something else relatively minor. Vox also acknowledged that some of the first runs of CC amps had some issues. Those issues have since been corrected--so I've been told from several sources. 2. You had yours modded, you said, but it still didn't measure up. Who did the mod? What did they replace? Did you put in a Mercury Magnetics output transformer, for instance? If not, then that's a huge oversight. 3. The preamp tubes are mounted to the PC board in the CC2s. But, as a friend of mine points out, they're also mounted on Soldanos and Suhrs. The power tubes are not mounted on the PCB. That's one of the design improvements over the Korg/Marshall era Voxes. The new ones combine high quality PC board circuit layout with very neat wiring (best of both worlds). Have a look at the chassis comparisons between a new CC2 and a '64 JMI at North Coast Music. I was originally quite skeptical of the new, Chinese Voxes also, but I've since been "schooled." They are built quite well right out of the box, and if you care to replace some key components, you can get them to sound as good or better than any JMI. And they'll be much more reliable than a 40 year old amp. So, the issue of Z's build quality vs. Vox build quality is not an issue at all for me. Neither is the tone of a (properly/competently) modded CC2 vs. a Z. They will both put out some serious, serious tone. 4. So, back to my question. How much does the Maz Sr. differ from a classic AC30? I have my Fender and Marshall tones covered already. I want an amp that sits somewhere in between--great dirty rhythm tones and a different lead flavor when compared to my Germino. I think the Maz Sr. is the ticket, but my only fear is that it *might* be too Vox-like, and hence a bit redundant given the amps I already own. But maybe not. I was hoping you guys could help out. My gut tells me the Z is a distinctive amp and is not really any kind of Vox clone at its core. But it does use the same tube types. I guess it all comes down to the circuit and voicing that makes the Z different? Oh...and I'd probably go with a Maz Sr. with a Celestion Blue + G12H30 in a 2 x 12 combo.
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Post by paddywhacker on Dec 23, 2006 7:31:21 GMT -7
...i have played my Maz 38 side by side at gigs with a buddy who plays through a Vox AC 30...even when we're both playing Strats the rigs sound completely different...the classis vox tone is definitely not in the Maz 38...you can conjure up a bit of it but to my ears the Maz has its own signature tone that has more chunky fenderesque girth and less glassy crunch than the Vox.... the speaker combo you're considering is a sure winner (i use a g-12h30 and a HP LDC scumback but i play the Maz for the big cleans first and get my dirt from pedals)....all that said. i've never owned a Vox amp...i just know how different it is from my buds AC 30....
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2006 21:30:54 GMT -7
The Maz is definitely a different amp than than AC30. You won't have to spend extra money for it to sound good either. DougG
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Post by JChance on Dec 24, 2006 23:03:20 GMT -7
I first owned a new AC30CC2 and hot rodded it. Sounded great. Unreliable as all get out and HEAVY. I picked up a Maz Sr and the AC30 never got used again. The Sr has all the Vox tone with a Z flavor. You can also get into Marshall, Fender and Matchless tones with different use of the Volume/Master levels and tone settings, and speaker selections if you like to tweak. The tone between the Z and Vox wasn't even on the same level - the Maz had this wonderful 3-dimensional character that made the Vox sound like it was housed in a cardboard box. Was quite an eye opener. 2nd issue, the new Vox is PCB/circuitboard based - including some tube sockets direct mounted. The Z's are point-to-point, extremely roadworthy, easy to retube (try to swap a bad power or pre tube onstage w/the AC30). Lots to reply to here: 1. The new Voxes are reliable, and they are designed much better than the Korg/Marshall era Voxes. I own one of the Korg/Marshall Voxes already, like I said. I've been researching the build quality on the Chinese amps a lot lately (because, like you, I had serious, serious doubts at first), and I trust the Vox mod gurus (three of whom I've been in touch with directly) who say the CC2s are built better and designed better than the ones made in England the last decade and a half. If you had any trouble with yours, it was probably the typical stuff that happens during shipping--bad tubes, maybe a bad reverb tank (which Vox has acknowledged and fixed), or something else relatively minor. Vox also acknowledged that some of the first runs of CC amps had some issues. Those issues have since been corrected--so I've been told from several sources. 2. You had yours modded, you said, but it still didn't measure up. Who did the mod? What did they replace? Did you put in a Mercury Magnetics output transformer, for instance? If not, then that's a huge oversight. 3. The preamp tubes are mounted to the PC board in the CC2s. But, as a friend of mine points out, they're also mounted on Soldanos and Suhrs. The power tubes are not mounted on the PCB. That's one of the design improvements over the Korg/Marshall era Voxes. The new ones combine high quality PC board circuit layout with very neat wiring (best of both worlds). Have a look at the chassis comparisons between a new CC2 and a '64 JMI at North Coast Music. I was originally quite skeptical of the new, Chinese Voxes also, but I've since been "schooled." They are built quite well right out of the box, and if you care to replace some key components, you can get them to sound as good or better than any JMI. And they'll be much more reliable than a 40 year old amp. So, the issue of Z's build quality vs. Vox build quality is not an issue at all for me. Neither is the tone of a (properly/competently) modded CC2 vs. a Z. They will both put out some serious, serious tone. 4. So, back to my question. How much does the Maz Sr. differ from a classic AC30? I have my Fender and Marshall tones covered already. I want an amp that sits somewhere in between--great dirty rhythm tones and a different lead flavor when compared to my Germino. I think the Maz Sr. is the ticket, but my only fear is that it *might* be too Vox-like, and hence a bit redundant given the amps I already own. But maybe not. I was hoping you guys could help out. My gut tells me the Z is a distinctive amp and is not really any kind of Vox clone at its core. But it does use the same tube types. I guess it all comes down to the circuit and voicing that makes the Z different? Oh...and I'd probably go with a Maz Sr. with a Celestion Blue + G12H30 in a 2 x 12 combo. DWeller plays for a living on a national level, so you can look at what he said about the reliability in two ways. 1) You will never use yours a heavily as he used his, so you don't have to worry about the "extra" reliability. or 2) Take it from a pro who's been through TONS of gear in his career, and knows what he's talking about. I just don't see the point in buying a production AC30CC and then spending money to have it modded. What are you trying to do here? Why not just buy a Hayseed or a kit or something? I break it down like this: -Used AC30CC- $750. Maybe less if you're getting a deal, but that seems to be the going rate. - Mods - $200-400- How much are you going to have it modded? Are we talking like something Fuchs does? -Replacing the AWFUL, and I mean AWFUL, HORRENDOUS, TONELESS, FIZZY stock speakers- $150-200. (I mean, I've gotten these amps on fly-dates plenty, and they have to be amoung the most offensive sounding stock speakers on the market. Clean tones sound like a bad BOSS DS-1 when the amp is cranked) You you are well over a grand into it when it's all said & done, and had to wait a while to get it all right. And when it's done, you've still got..... A Chinese, plywood, circuit board AC30 . Kind of like polishing a turd. If that's what you want, then they can certainly be good sounding amps with the right speakers. I've got no beef with their tone, and the extra bells & whistles they've added make them the "Mesa" of AC30's if you are in to turning knobs & switches. But I can cover AC30 tones all day long with my MAZ amps, but still sound like a Z. I can also get pretty Fender-y and Marshall-y, depending on the guitar & EQ combinations. You can get a used MAZ Sr in the $1300-1400 range, and probably have something you'll either keep forever, or at least for a very long time. My amps DON'T BREAK DOWN. In 2 1/2 years I've had about 2 or 3 VERY MINOR issues with my MAZ 18 & 38, and I tour heavily and use them at least 5 days a week in gig & recording situations. If you want a broad array of MAZ 38 & 18 sound clips, you can listen to the Sound Click site I set up. I've got just about every shade of clean & dirty you can imagine on there, along with a variety of guitars. www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=465770Good luck either way!
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Post by T-R☼CK ♫ on Dec 25, 2006 1:36:17 GMT -7
Daaauuuummmnnn.........
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Post by groovergeorge on Dec 25, 2006 2:09:41 GMT -7
I used to own a Vox AC30 top boost model and I can definately say that the tube set out is the only similarities that these two amps share. The AC30 has a real chime about it and goes into a real creamy sustaining drive when turned up all the way and a boost is put in front of it. The Maz sr on the other hand has a more aggressive distortion/drive to it,probably on account of the master volume ala say a Marshall 18 watter and cleans up like a sparkly Fender silverface twin model with a lot tighter bottom end. There is chime in there if you max out the master and keep the normal volume at just about half way but not quite the same as a Vox AC30. If your after an all round world class quality gigging rig that can pull a variey of tones from Brit pop to country/funk and blues then the MAz sr is the way to go. Even more volume and something to cover harder rock needs then I think the RXES is your tone machine. If however you want something very AC30 pre top boostish with a big clang then go for the Stingray. If you want a that Brian May creamy distortion then add a rangemaster or some other kind of treble booster.
I think I speak for most people who are on this forum and are devoted to these amps in saying that if you want a "tone machine" look no further than one of Dr Z's line. Most of us have been down that shakey,costly road and have probably had every single brand and model made since the 50's. Although there are good amps both vintage and modern just about all have there shortcommings. You say Dumble and old Matchless etc etc........well those things might have awesome tone but in turn will cost you an arm and a leg.
Do yourself a serious favour, at the price of the Dr's amps and the quality that they are made not to mention the Tone,Tone,Tone factor give modifying a Vox,Marshall or the like a miss and get a Z'. A 6L6 model is the only think he has not covered as of yet and there are rumours that one of those is on the cards very soon.
Good luck whatever you decide and Merry Xmas.
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Post by guitarelf on Mar 20, 2007 13:32:13 GMT -7
Not much to add to the experts here..I just know that I have had ampegs, fenders, marshalls, and (shhh) peavys! when I plug my L-5 into the 38Sr and turn up the reverb a bit, I am in seventh heaven! My wife comes back from the store and says "what have you been doing?" I say..."I've been away...."
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Post by billyguitar on Mar 20, 2007 14:09:59 GMT -7
The guy that started the thread hasn't logged on again since Dec. 22 of '06. I'd say he went with the Vox!
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Post by guitarelf on Mar 20, 2007 20:10:52 GMT -7
hard to make a buying decision based on anonymous opinions of seemingly biased individuals. i'm sure the vox sounds good! i'll take one of those as well!
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Post by jcshirke on May 13, 2007 23:11:49 GMT -7
The guy that started the thread hasn't logged on again since Dec. 22 of '06. I'd say he went with the Vox! No, it's just that this thread was starting to turn into something I had hoped to avoid. I was not interested in people telling me that Chinese AC30s are crap, or that the mods aren't worth it, or that a Z kicks a Vox's arse--or any combination of the above. And a couple people started down that road. So I didn't come back to check in on the thread for a long time. I do have a new AC30 CC2X (where the "X" stands for Celestion Blues, which should only serve to remind one of the guys who chimed in that AC30 speakers are definitely not crap. I would never get one with the Wharfdales), fully modded. It absolutely rocks, and I'd put it up against any JMI both in terms of build quality, tone, and reliability. It stands up to any boutique amp in its same class also. That said, I'm still going to get a Maz Sr. for my other rig. If anyone has speaker advice, particularly about the possibility of going with a Celestion Gold paired with another speaker, I've started a thread here and also in the speaker/cabs section of the forum. Thanks.
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Post by jcshirke on May 13, 2007 23:25:53 GMT -7
-Replacing the AWFUL, and I mean AWFUL, HORRENDOUS, TONELESS, FIZZY stock speakers- $150-200. (You you are well over a grand into it when it's all said & done, and had to wait a while to get it all right. And when it's done, you've still got..... A Chinese, plywood, circuit board AC30 . Kind of like polishing a turd. As I mentioned in a previous reply, I'd never get a Vox with Wharfdales. Both of my AC30s have Blues. You should probably do some research about the build quality of the new AC30s before commenting on them the way you did above. I was skeptical and misinformed at first, just like you. I had my prejudices against amps built in Asia for some unknown reason. But, having researched it a lot, I trust the opinions of the people who have owned or worked on dozens (if not hundreds) of JMIs, as well as more recent Korg AC30 reissues. They are unanimous in singing the praises of the design, layout, and build quality of the Chinese amps. As far as circuit boards go, there are several boutique builders that use them, and the ones in the AC30 are high quality. I'm sure you must know that. Plus, the cabs are made of birch, not cheapo plywood (like my *British* made AC30 reissue, incidentally). My new, modded CC2X is a much better sounding amp than its British brother (also modded, btw...but by someone else). So, if you're going to say the new AC30s are turds, then you should at least be consistent and say that the British made ones over the last 20-30 years are even bigger ones. You asked "why buy a Vox only to mod it"? Here's why. It's actually very simple. You can spend $3500 on a JMI Vox. It may be reliable and sound great, or it may be unreliable and sound...well...old. Either way, you're going to throw down some serious cash. *Or* you can spend about $2000 for a new CC2X and have it modded and upgraded to JMI specs. It will sound just as good, if not better than a JMI--and I'd love to do an A/B comparison, actually. And it will also be at least as reliable, and probably more so. Anyway, this is the sort of thing I didn't want to get into when I started this thread. And now it's completely irrelevant, since i'll be getting a Maz Sr. also.
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Post by JChance on May 14, 2007 14:28:48 GMT -7
Hey, dude.. Glad you got an amp you like. Seriously! Different strokes for different folks... I just know that I've had enough of buying reissue anything, only to later have it fail. It's happened time and time again. And no, I don't need to research it further. I'm only speaking from real-life experience. I had a reissue AC30 that was built like crap, also had several other reissues. A majority of them spent considerable time in the shop as well. And yes, I take extremely good care of my equipment. YMMV, of course. I make a living playing, so I'm sure that not *everyone's* rigs are subject to the abuse that a full-time player's would be. I was just trying to save you some headache in the long run!
And as far as the Wharfdale speakers go...Well, again, I don't need research. I already have real-time application. I've used them. MANY times. Quite often on fly dates I get AC30's with them, as most of the backline companies I see have the Custom Classic's in their stable for folks that request AC30's.
I think the Wharfdales are awful. I mean pitiful. Maybe not at lower volumes, like in a music store. But at performance levels, the bumble -bee factor is there. But admittedly, maybe they work for some folks. Just know I could never get along with them, and I'm not really that pick-y at all.
As I said, I'm glad you dig the amp. I just figured that, for the money you spent on a new CC and the mods, you could probably have many of the hand-built amp variety. Z, Top Hat, Valvetech, etc.
Whatever works for you! Let us know if you get the MAZ38. It is definitely different from an AC30. Has similar response and breakup characteristics of a Vox, but a more girthy body with more low mids & bottom. Kind of like crossing an early Marshall/Brown Fender with an AC30. Quite versatile....
Good luck!
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Post by jcshirke on May 14, 2007 16:13:00 GMT -7
Hey, dude.. And no, I don't need to research it further. I'm only speaking from real-life experience. And as far as the Wharfdale speakers go...Well, again, I don't need research. I already have real-time application. I've used them. MANY times. I think the Wharfdales are awful. I mean pitiful. As I said, I'm glad you dig the amp. I just figured that, for the money you spent on a new CC and the mods, you could probably have many of the hand-built amp variety. Z, Top Hat, Valvetech, etc. Good luck! Did you read what I wrote above about Vox speakers? Of course the Wharfdales sound awful. I agree with you completely. That's why both of my AC30s have Celestion Blues. And they sound fantastic. As far as build quality goes, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. The new ones are built much better than the British reissues. I haven't met a soul yet who works on these amps that says otherwise. And when you upgrade the caps in a CC2X, put in a Mercury Magnetics tone clone OT and choke, and make a few other upgrades that are over my head, you've got yourself an amazing amp. Ask Don Butler, or ask the guy who worked on mine (psionicaudio.com). Or, if you like, read the Tone Quest review. You trust them, right? As for boutiques, I own a Tone King Meteor II and a Germino Lead 55. I have two modded AC30s, and I'll be getting a Z 38. I don't spare any expense when it comes to tone. Thanks for the reply. Jeff
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Post by Curt on May 14, 2007 17:05:16 GMT -7
Hey, dude.. And no, I don't need to research it further. I'm only speaking from real-life experience. And as far as the Wharfdale speakers go...Well, again, I don't need research. I already have real-time application. I've used them. MANY times. I think the Wharfdales are awful. I mean pitiful. As I said, I'm glad you dig the amp. I just figured that, for the money you spent on a new CC and the mods, you could probably have many of the hand-built amp variety. Z, Top Hat, Valvetech, etc. Good luck! I haven't met a soul yet who works on these amps that says otherwise. I'll be getting a Z 38. I don't spare any expense when it comes to tone. Thanks for the reply. Jeff After all this I have to bust in at this point. your quote above "I haven't met a soul yet who works on these amps that says otherwise"strange to me that so many people have worked on these . What folks here are saying is few have worked on a Dr Z amp..there's not much need. and your other quote "I'll be getting a Z 38. I don't spare any expense when it comes to tone"Mike builds a Z-28, and a MAZ 38 Senior FWIW, I'll take a stab your refering to the later . Best of luck in your Tone Quest....and with your repair bills. Me? I play Dr Z amps as I can not afford to have a failure on the job .
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Post by jcshirke on May 14, 2007 20:57:56 GMT -7
After all this I have to bust in at this point. your quote above "I haven't met a soul yet who works on these amps that says otherwise"strange to me that so many people have worked on these . What folks here are saying is few have worked on a Dr Z amp..there's not much need. and your other quote "I'll be getting a Z 38. I don't spare any expense when it comes to tone"Mike builds a Z-28, and a MAZ 38 Senior FWIW, I'll take a stab your refering to the later . Best of luck in your Tone Quest....and with your repair bills. Me? I play Dr Z amps as I can not afford to have a failure on the job My off the cuff reply is simply to say give me a f'in break. Repair bills? There won't be any. But thanks for your concern. And when I say "work on the AC30s", I mean mod them or otherwise do minor upkeep on them, just like anyone has to do for any tube amp. Sorry you guys either don't like or don't know JMI AC30 tone (anyone who thinks Wharfdale speakers are indicative of what AC30 tone is about obviously doesn't have much experience with AC30s). I guess I'm on the wrong board for discussing these things. As for reparing Z amps, how 'bout the thread about the boatload of bad rectifiers and/or fuses that have been causing Z amps to go down that sits atop each and every page of the forum? If you think that hasn't given me pause about my impending purchase, you'd be mistaken. And, yes, the amp in question is a Maz Sr. 38, as the first post in the thread indicates.
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Post by billyguitar on May 15, 2007 9:19:15 GMT -7
Calm down! Lots of people own and/or have used AC30s so they KNOW the tone. You don't need to throw insults. Forums can be pissy but this one is better than most. I hope we can keep it this way. First: If you like your amp, cool. Second: Bad rectifier tubes are everywhere. Z doesn't make those you know. A bad rectifier tube will pop a fuse in any amp. So if you think it's only Z amps, think again. Z just happens to think everyone should be aware of it. Third: I own a Korg AC30. It sounds great and doesn't need mods. I keep it at home because it's too big and heavy and well kinown to be too fragile. My Zs get 90% of the gigs. Now and then I use something else, Evans or a vintage Fender.
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Post by jcshirke on May 15, 2007 9:55:10 GMT -7
Calm down! Lots of people own and/or have used AC30s so they KNOW the tone. You don't need to throw insults. Forums can be pissy but this one is better than most. I hope we can keep it this way. First: If you like your amp, cool. Second: Bad rectifier tubes are everywhere. Z doesn't make those you know. A bad rectifier tube will pop a fuse in any amp. So if you think it's only Z amps, think again. Z just happens to think everyone should be aware of it. Third: I own a Korg AC30. It sounds great and doesn't need mods. I keep it at home because it's too big and heavy and well kinown to be too fragile. My Zs get 90% of the gigs. Now and then I use something else, Evans or a vintage Fender. 1. I *am* calm. 2. Most AC30 "problems" are (likewise) bad rectifiers, etc. So that was precisely my point. Of course it's not Z's fault. Nor is bad build quality to blame for any so-called problems with a new reissue AC30. 3. Your AC30 may not "need" mods, but you don't know how good it *could* sound. But, to each his own.
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Post by JChance on May 15, 2007 9:59:10 GMT -7
Calm down! Lots of people own and/or have used AC30s so they KNOW the tone. You don't need to throw insults. Forums can be pissy but this one is better than most. I hope we can keep it this way. First: If you like your amp, cool. Second: Bad rectifier tubes are everywhere. Z doesn't make those you know. A bad rectifier tube will pop a fuse in any amp. So if you think it's only Z amps, think again. Z just happens to think everyone should be aware of it. Third: I own a Korg AC30. It sounds great and doesn't need mods. I keep it at home because it's too big and heavy and well kinown to be too fragile. My Zs get 90% of the gigs. Now and then I use something else, Evans or a vintage Fender. Bingo. No need to get defensive. I really think folks on here, especially at the beginning of the thread, were trying to point you in the most logical direction. And like Billyguitar said, I guarantee you that a huge population of Dr. Z players have some type of AC30 background, when you consider the similarities. The MAZ38, Mazerati, and especially the Sting Ray are all "British type" EL84 amps that share at least some inspiration from those vintage JMI designs. So there's no need for insults, pi$$ing contests or otherwise. After re-reading the whole thread, I think that things got a little testy when you insinuated that there were those of us that obviously hadn't done research or knew what we were talking about. That just isn't the case. This is absolutely the most friendly & helpful gear forum I've ever been on, and it should definitely stay that way. We're all glad you are here, and please keep posting. Just know that there are MANY of us here that have a wealth of experience with playing, tone, and gear searches. Just as I'm sure you have as well! So go get you a MAZ 38 and crank her up...Then let us know what ya think.. J
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Post by Jan on May 15, 2007 11:05:49 GMT -7
People are going to get defensive when other folks line up to trash something they are fond of. The fanaticism here, and let's be honest, it is fanaticism, makes me cringe sometimes. Just because I like and bought a Dr Z amp, and even intend on buying one or two more, does not mean I suddenly become incapable of liking other sounds. Nor does it make most other amps suddenly become less worthy than they were before, as some folks here recite like a manta.
They are amps. They are well made, nicely priced and they sound pretty good. There is plenty of room for the same to be said about other products. A review that talks about the good things of competing products gets my attention. A review that tears one down to praise another turns me right off.
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Post by billyguitar on May 15, 2007 12:26:42 GMT -7
There are lots of good amps and lots of praise for them here. look at the thread about the Matchless DC30. Nobody said "My Z kicks it's arse!". It'll be a cold day in hell before I sell my old tweed Bassmans or my Evans amp. No Z or Bad Cat will ever replace them! Certainly not an AC30; original, Korg or Chinese. This is the golden age of good amps. But before I'd drop $2K into a pcb production amp with generic components I would buy an American boutique amp. It may cost a little more but I feel it will still sound good and be more easily maintained in 10, 20, 30 or more years and retain it's value better. I'm just an old fashioned guy with old attitudes but having lived a while and learned a lot I've come to trust my common sense. I also know that my way isn't the only way so party on my friend! Live long and prosper! What you will get with a Z amp is a great sounding amp with point to point reliability at a more than fair price. This is the stuff that feeds fanaticism!
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Post by JChance on May 15, 2007 13:26:19 GMT -7
People are going to get defensive when other folks line up to trash something they are fond of. The fanaticism here, and let's be honest, it is fanaticism, makes me cringe sometimes. Just because I like and bought a Dr Z amp, and even intend on buying one or two more, does not mean I suddenly become incapable of liking other sounds. Nor does it make most other amps suddenly become less worthy than they were before, as some folks here recite like a manta. They are amps. They are well made, nicely priced and they sound pretty good. There is plenty of room for the same to be said about other products. A review that talks about the good things of competing products gets my attention. A review that tears one down to praise another turns me right off. Well, I agree to the point that you can certainly take you gear obsession to the extreme. But, as I said earlier, if you re-read the entire post, I don't think anyone was lining up to trash the amp selection. Seemed to me like pretty helpful posts simply stating that, you could buy a hand-made amp for around the same price as a reissue with mods/tubes/speakers. Then throw in the fact that the mods void the warranty, and there ya go! And there are ongoing discussions on this board of different amps other than Dr.Z. There are plenty of guys on here that have old Fenders, Marshalls, Voxes, etc. in addition to whatever Dr.Z they have. Hell, some Z owners even have "competing" boutiques like Matchless, Bad Cat, whatever.. You think Mike Zaite himself doesn't have a personal affinity for some of those classic designs?? Think again! Making assumptions that the folks offering their advice either a) were uninformed or b) didn't know of which they speak, well that was what got the discussion a little heated. In fact I'll take full responsibility for my initial post, which might have been conceived as inflammatory (though not really intended.) But again, my reaction was to the fact that someone would degrade an informed & experienced opinion after being the one that was asking for advice/insight!
I say again, this forum has always been warm, friendly, and accepting. No reason to change any of that! ;D In the future, I simply think it's best for all involved to use their manners. It's perfectly fine to disagree, but no reason to throw out insults. Definitely a proper way to get your point across without it being some sort of competition... J
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Post by JChance on May 15, 2007 13:54:59 GMT -7
Hi, I'm on the verge of getting a new AC30 CC2 and having it modded to be a tone monster. However, I also have played (and love) the Maz Sr. My question: Are these two amps sufficiently different to merit owning both? I know the Zs have their own "flavor" and aren't a copy of any particular amp. But how much "Vox flavor" is in the Z 38? Thanks, Jeff So for a fresh start, let's go back to the beginning and answer the initial question just to be clear. IMO, yes, it's worth owning both. If you are a pure AC30 guy, and need that sound for certain gigs, then there's nothing else quite like a good one. Of course, the Matchless DC30 will also fit the bill (for a more modern AC30 tone), as well as the Valvetech hayseed, and of course the Dr. Z Sting Ray (which is more like the non-TB AC30/4.) And then of course there's Top Hat, Fargen....The list goes on. The MAZ 38, while a lot of folks keep saying is nothing like an AC30, does actually have some similarities. Since I do a lot of fly dates and get AC30's often (since most backline companies don't have Z's), I hear the two regularly and feel like I can give a pretty accurate a/b. In fact, I'm flying this weekend to do a festival in Detroit, and I'm sure an AC30 is what I'll end up with. In terms of response, and even to the point of where you would set the controls, this is where I think the MAZ 38 and AC30 are most similar. For instance, I find that the controls I set on AC30's on fly dates are almost identical to where I set them on my MAZ38, with the exception being the cut knob. It's wired exactly opposite of an AC30's (clockwise is brighter on a MAZ38). However, I usually have them in the same spot, just mirrored. Usually plug into the TB channel, and run the treble at 12:00, bass at 11:00, cut at 3:00. Same thing on the MAZ 38, with the exception being the cut at 9:00 (which is the same as the Vox being at 3:00, if that makes sense), and the MAZ 38 has a mid control, which I'll run anywhere from 12:00-2:00 depending on what I'm doing. The two amps have similar headroom, output, and breakup points. The MAZ has got a touch more juice, though. And it has extended lows & low mids. Like an AC30, but with the bottom shelf of a vintage Fender or early Marshall. With the right speakers, you can have plenty of chime with a 38 as well. But you may not quite get the glassy, sort-of "honk" that you get from an AC30. The way the two amps crunch is a bit different as well. I'd describe the Vox as having more of a crunched glass type of effect, with the MAZ 38 having more of a "huff." And of course, those are all completely scientific, clinical tonal descriptions!! ;D
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Post by Jan on May 15, 2007 14:25:33 GMT -7
I do not think you have any thing to defend, Jason. However, there is a trend here to respond with "never mind brand X, just get a Z, you will love it" and not hear what someone is saying. Z fans are not unique in this regard. It is human nature that you see everywhere. I have posted before about the overall level of nice here versus some other, similar forums I have read. Still, trust me, the semi-frequent avalanche of "just get a Z" responses looks different to a new guy. Perhaps regulars here do not notice it. Having only been here a short while, I notice it constantly. And unlike the average new user, I actually read the vast majority of the available archives before jumping in the water myself.
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Post by Jan on May 15, 2007 14:28:45 GMT -7
So for a fresh start, [...deletia...]And of course, those are all completely scientific, clinical tonal descriptions!! ;D That was an astonishingly useful post! And I do not even want an AC30. An AC15, maybe...
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Post by billyguitar on May 15, 2007 14:45:43 GMT -7
I think the operative word is similar when discussing the tone difference between a Maz 38 and an AC30. How similar is subjective. A Maz 38 is definitely it's own very good thing. If I was limited to only one Z this would be the one and I would choose it over an AC30. But that's for my style, YMMV!
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