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Post by G'OlPeachPhan on Dec 2, 2005 12:33:34 GMT -7
Well, this isn't completely Ghia related, but the Ghia is certainly a large facet of this topic for me. I've kept this pretty quiet up until now, but a new amp finally arrived at my house yesterday - it's a Matchless Lightning clone (head) with a few slight modifications that a friend of mine built for me. OK, I know what you guys are thinking, but relax... the Ghia is going NOWHERE. That said, it is absolutely AMAZING to me how DIFFERENT two 2xEL84 amps can be... Honestly, the biggest similarity is that they both use 2xEL84's in the power section - tonally, there are more differences than similarities, which is exactly what I was hoping for. I'm sure the Lightning is probably a lot more similar to the Maz 18 Jr. NR, but that's the whole point here. I really wanted something to cover the EL84 tones that the Ghia can't get to, while at the same time the Ghia does things that no other amp on the face of the earth can do. So why not a Maz 18 instead of a Lightning? Hang on, I'm getting to that.. I actually bouth this amp using the money from the KT-45 I sold after that experiement didn't turn out to be right for me (too much headroom). I was about to buy a Maz 18 Jr. NR with the money (actually had the order placed with Fat Sound and everything), but I got pulled in a couple other more compelling (new house related) directions financially at that time. In the mean time, I had a friend offer to build me a Lightning clone with top quality parts at a price I couldn't refuse... A Matchless DC30 was actually my first introduction to the world of boutique amps when I was 16 years old. A local rock band I went to see in concert was using them, and their tone was the best I'd ever heard. So I started doing a little research, and found out that the Matchless amps were way out of my price range... But there was this other boutique 2xEL84 amp that I COULD afford at the time - the Carmen Ghia! I've always secretly lusted for a Matchless after hearing them at that show when I was in high school, but I've never been able to justify the higher prices for them when the Z's are every bit as good at a significantly lower price point... This gave me the opportunity to finally get the Matchless I wanted (DC30 has too much power for my needs), at a price I was willing and able to pay. So that's it... There's the story... I'm pretty excited about the new amp, but nothing could ever replace my Ghia. After hearing the Ghia almost every day for the past 8+ years, that's just what my ears think an amp is SUPPOSED to sound like! I just wanted a change of pace, and I had to fulfill that lustful secret I've kept for so long. I don't want to post too much about impressions, because it just arrived yesterday, but I'm having a lot of fun this new amp today. I took the day off to just play guitar and relax after already having 50+ hours of work in Mon. - Thurs. What a fun way to spend a day off - a pot of coffee, a couple guitars, several different cabs, and a Z Ghia and a Matchless (kind of) Lightning! Well, back to the basement studio....
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Post by terryg on Dec 2, 2005 12:42:48 GMT -7
Congratulations - there has to be something special to fulfilling a lifelong desire. So....are you going to use both in an A/B/Y setup? Finally, what exactly is a "Matchless (kind of) Lightning?" Uh oh, the questions are coming in quick.....I'll bail now so you're not distracted from the first order of the day. Lightning is brewing in Wisconsin.....
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Post by G'OlPeachPhan on Dec 2, 2005 15:27:32 GMT -7
Thanks Terry! I think I could happily gig with either amp, but an a/b setup with the Lightning for rythym and the Ghia for leads is what seems very logical to me at this moment. I just called it a "kind of" Matchless because it's a clone, not actually a Matchless. Hmmm, never seen Lightning in Wisconsin with snow on the ground before.
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Post by G'OlPeachPhan on Dec 5, 2005 16:25:33 GMT -7
Well, at the risk of talking to myself, I've made a couple observations over the past 3 days.
The speaker cabs have been playing a HUGE role in my opinions re: Ghia v. Lightning. I just plugged my Lightning into the Z-Best, and guess what, the Lightning all of a sudden sounded a LOT more like the "Ghia."
I plugged the Ghia into my 2x12 with an H30 and a Blue, and guess what, the Ghia sounded a LOT more like the "Lightning." Granted there are still plenty of tonal and design differences between these two amps, but a big part of the sound and feel that I was attributing to being the signature of each of these two amplifers actually had a LOT more to do with the cabs than I realized.
To get the Ghia to sound like what I've grown accustomed to considering to be the "Dr. Z sound," I have to run it through the Z-Best with a Vintage 30 in it. To get the Lightning to sound like what I always considered to be the "Matchless (more modern Voxish) sound," I have to run it through the 2x12 open back with a Blue in the equation.
That said, there are still plenty of tonal differences between these two amps... I'm actually really surprised as to how this is all unfolding.
However, thing that I've always known to be true for me has been confirmed once again: EL84 amps just flat out work great for the tones I prefer! It's just fun to have a couple different flavors.
Now I'm wishing I had my old TopHat Club Royale back and an Maz 18 in the house as well so I could do a more complete 2xEL84 amp shootout!
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Post by taswegian on Dec 5, 2005 16:43:17 GMT -7
Hey Peach, I remember reading an interview with the doc and him saying speakers were the biggest influence on tone. I didn't really believe it when I read it as I'd never really given it alot of thought but obviously he's right. What you are saying and have said previously validates it too. I tried my 66 into a Celestion 100watt 1x12 I have lying around and thought it sounded yuck! I'm spoiled of course with the Z-Best, but it was a great indicater of the importance of the speaker. I've tried crap guitars into the 66 and Z-best and they still sound good. I've tried my great guitar into some crap amps and it still sounds bad! Like life I guess, greatness is the sum of a lot of other things working beneficially for each other. Sh@# now I'm getting philisophical over tone! By the way...Race you to 300 ;D
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Post by Curt on Dec 5, 2005 19:15:32 GMT -7
Peach/Tas, I discovered this same thing, that's one reason Peach has my old Z Best now !! I sounded killer, but too edgy for what I was playin' at the time. My Ghia/Z 1x12 w/V-30 perfectly suited our stuff...BUT..same amp/Z best w/V-30 & G-12-H was WAY too agressive sounding for our gigs..sounded KILLER, but to Rock sounding for our alt. country/Southern rock gigs....so yeah...speakers define the Tone. Peach..ya ain't talkin' to yersef !!!! LOL
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Post by G'OlPeachPhan on Dec 5, 2005 20:18:16 GMT -7
Thanksfor chiming in tas n' tele62! I just kept rambling my thoughts on my experiences of the last couple days and started to wonder if I should keep going on and on about it all... Kind of Z and Ghia related, but it's definitely somewhat of a tangent for this forum. This whole speaker and cab thing though -- I think that's something that everyone can benefit from experimenting with whether they play a Ghia, some other Z, or some other amp altogether! tas - I'm right with you... As far as tone quality, I think the amp is the most important component, then the cab, then the pickups, the guitar. Obviously playability as an instrument is given a backseat in that mentality, and that certainly can't be ignored, but from the perspective of the tonal equation, for me at least, that seems to be the critical order of the signal chain. There, now I'm getting philosophical as well! I'm actually a little conflicted though now... I think that the amp has to work for you first and foremost, but I think that the speakers/cab can shape the overall tonality as much, if not moreso than the amp itself! So you have to get along well with a specific amp first, but the speakers and cab give you a tone of options to pull the end result in a different direction. What a fun and option filled game this becomes! And speakers are SO much less expensive than amps, and last a lot longer than tubes. tele62 - the Z-Best with the H30/V30 is perfect for the rock music I've been playing lately, so I think that trade worked out well for the both of us... Though I thank you again for a helluva deal on that cab in the trade! I've been listening to a little alt. country myself lately - moslty Wilco, and I think the Ghia and Z-Best is very well-suited to that type of sound and style... You're right though, the Z-Best is definitely an edgy sounding cab, but that fits well with my personality as a whole. ;D Anyways, good to know I'm not talkin' to myself... Tas, as for that race to 300, YOU'RE ON!
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Post by terryg on Dec 6, 2005 12:28:34 GMT -7
you're definitely talking to me. As much as I love the Z28 -> Z 2x10 pairing, I really enjoyed putting the Z through the 2 Jensen P12Rs (at 4 ohms) that my Victorilux runs.
I sorta considered getting one of those Radial switching systems that would let me select cabs (or heads) from my feet, at one time. It seems a hassle though, because the Victoria's console is top-mounted and I can't easily stack heads. Then again I could be a stage hog and run them side-by-side....meh.
Wilco! The addition of Nels Cline was a great move, too.
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Post by G'OlPeachPhan on Dec 6, 2005 12:59:39 GMT -7
Wilco - no doubt man... Nels is a fantastic musician. "Kicking Televison, Live in Chicago" is blowing my mind right now by the way!
I thought about the Radial stuff too for a while - cab switchers, head switchers, etc... I decided to spend my time and money elsewhere ultimately. The head switcher might be particularly cool though.
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Post by terryg on Dec 6, 2005 13:10:12 GMT -7
I just checked and Nels Cline is playing w/ his quartet + Jeff Parker on Sunday here in Chicago! Kicking Television looks awesome, I'll have to get that - I don't know if I can wait for Santa.
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Post by G'OlPeachPhan on Dec 6, 2005 14:47:16 GMT -7
That sounds like a sweet show! Are you gonna go??!!
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Post by prsplayer on Dec 6, 2005 19:27:35 GMT -7
Hi guys -- I'm a new member and really dig the forum. I own a Ghia and a Z28 along with a few other amps. Thanks for the speaker talk -- it is the final transducer in the chain and I think it can make almost as great a difference as any other component.
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Post by terryg on Dec 6, 2005 22:35:41 GMT -7
That sounds like a sweet show! Are you gonna go??!! You bet! If I can't get in, I'll brave the cold outside the window. Of course then when I make it big I'll have a story to tell.....and I'll be like 7 million years old. 9:30 PM, $7 tickets; you're what, 2-3 hours from here? Now that he's got the excellent Wilco gig I'd lke to think he's no longer suffering from amp du jour symptoms. He'd probably do well with a Z, in fact. Maybe a 6545.
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Post by G'OlPeachPhan on Dec 11, 2005 12:56:32 GMT -7
hey Terry - make sure to post the report on that Nels show tonight man!
in the meantime, I can't take "Kicking Television, Live in Chicago" off my disc player. Man, this album is just WRECKIN' me!
The tune "At Least that What You Said" is SO good... Just tell me that guitar playin' ain't Neil Young channelled onto stage with Wilco! Can you channel somebody that's still alive? Great tones, great playing. Not sure what kind of amps they use, but they have some great tones on this live album.
Can anybody point me towards a current Wilco gear breakdown? I know they detailed they're gear years ago in some issue of a guitar magazine (Guitar Player or Guitar World?), but that was around the timeframe of the "Being There," album, and I really couldn't have cared less about Wilco at that time in my musical evolution (go figure). I don't remember what gear they detailed use of in that interview...
Anyways.
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Post by terryg on Dec 12, 2005 9:53:36 GMT -7
hey Terry - make sure to post the report on that Nels show tonight man! Oh man - it was great - I was right in front and saw everything! Much better live/in person than on record or screen. I didn't get home until really really late, and I'm a zombie now. Whatever, art is painful. Nels Cline/Jeff Parker/Nate McBride (bass)/Frank Rosaly (dr) were formidable. Their set was the entire Paul Bley album "Turning Point" with a couple extra tunes at the end. For all the "weirdness" that Nels employs in his playing, it's all very tasteful and hmmm, tactful. Very interesting use of the original EHX 16 Second Delay, I'll add. His fingers really know how to move, too! I need this album bad. The video clip on the wilco site is cool - it makes me hope for a DVD. I was kicking myself hard for a) not getting tix for this gig, b) not being able to get tix for this gig. You know, I suppose you could channel someone living, but they'd probably be kind of upset about it. Last night I recall it going something like this. I'll have Z content in here, too, but perhaps it should be a different thread.... Nels: his Jaguar -> Maxon OD-820 -> Bixonic Expandora -> Boss CS-3 -> EB Volume (the big one) -> EHX Deluxe MM -> EHX 16S Delay (original) -> EHX Holy Grail -> Hiwatt 50W 1x12 combo (Custom 50?). He also played a Danelectro-looking 12-string. Nice. I smell GAS fumes. Jeff Parker played his 335 through his pedalboard, which I did not scope out, but it did include a MoogerFooger Ring Modulator with expression pedal, which he used extensively. He used a nifty MusicMan 2x10 combo, and got a nice fat sound out his rig. OK - Z content with preface. I saw another happening Chicago guitarist on Saturday, Bill MacKay, in a small Bucktown bar. The whole weekend got me thinking - what amps would *I* want to use for this kind of music in these rooms? I like distortion provided by cranked amps, airbraked as necessary, but perhaps the Ghia would be absolute perfect for this world. The Z28 I suspect would be as well, even played clean assuming I'd use distortion rather sparingly from pedals (I seem to have a reasonable selection anyway). Or, a 1x12 cab with an inefficient and warm speaker. Or my Victorilux. Ach mein Gott! This could easily become one of those things where the gear gets in the way of the playing.... You said it. It was the best of times. I definitely do not want to remove the guitar from my fingers for any extended amount of time.
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Post by G'OlPeachPhan on Dec 13, 2005 7:21:44 GMT -7
Hey Terry, Sounds like it was a great show! Thanks for the performance and equipment rundown. It is always interesting to see/hear what the pros do when they play smaller venues and shows, as that tends to translate a little better to what us mere mortals could reasonably use for our own gigs. ...And it DOES always make you want to play more too - I love how seeing great smaller shows like that often inspires creativity on a whole different level! The lower to medium power Z's (Ghia, Maz 18, and Z-28) all make excellent choices for tonal platforms for us Z fanatics to use in our own musical contexts, whatever those may be (rock, blues, alt., country, etc.). To quote a famous and grand tune: "...And I think to myself, what a wonderful world!" ~Louis A.
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Post by terryg on Dec 13, 2005 23:14:15 GMT -7
It was great. One of those things that keep you buzzing for a few days. I love that experience.
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Post by nickthestick on Dec 15, 2005 14:01:46 GMT -7
hey just wanted to add that i play a lightning at this rehearsal place in nyc and its a totally sweet amp....it is low wattage but different from the ghia....i love the master volume and gain controls.....how cool would that be a dr z with volume tone and gain......sweet.....and an ef-86 front end......mmmm......thats my dream z
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