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Post by benallison on Jun 13, 2008 18:23:22 GMT -7
I know metal amps are typically very fast, full range, somewhat scooped, and rely largely on preamp gain.
I also know the Z28 is an amazing pedal platform (you should hear how a Metal Muff can transform it).
I'm just wondering how "heavy" my Z28 will get if i run it through a closed 1x12 or 2x12 loaded with something like Vintage 30's.
Any one have experience with this? Will I get more "balls" or do the two just not go?
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Post by benallison on Jun 13, 2008 18:25:49 GMT -7
Oh, to clarify, by "metal" I do NOT mean AC/DC or Sabbath.
I mean Lamb of God, As I Lay Dying, Killswitch Engage (so Mesa Mark IV's, Kranks, and modded 5150's, respectively).
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Post by asattwanger on Jun 14, 2008 8:13:10 GMT -7
To most people I would say no. With the right pedal or pedals maybe.
Most people don't depend on thier muting hand and string attack for a great metal sound and generaly pay for it. Over gained amps are not the answer. Really high out put pickups are are only need if you use trem guitar as you loose so much attack power. Realy it's the fact that you can not find the sweet spot on the saddles the same way you can on a Tune-o-matic or G&L saddle lock bridge. Zakk W. said along time ago "people play my rig and acouple things happen. Not enough gain, no sustain, or it feedsback. My tone comes from my hands" I took this and ran with it. I played a 87 G&L ASAT through a GK ML250 {which is not a metal amp or guitar by any means} and I punnished some people with it. Guys in big D.Metal bands were floorded by it's sound and baffled why it didn't sound like that when they played it.
I played a mix punk/metal and while people loved it live. D.Metal record guys didn't know what to do with it and I heard if you do more like Morbid Angel we could market you. Young and stupid I refused and didn't make any money.
My friend in the other band I gigged with was more Bungle metal type of band. But he played through a Drip edge Bassman into a 1x12 JBL and that was a monster metal sound.
In short. I love the metal/punk driving tones I get from my Z-28, but I have a style driven by a low gain sound that roars when played open and tightens up when muted. Me and the friend mentioned above now play together and we joke about putting a set of punk/metal songs together and go F'upsome wanna be punks in Miami where punk/metal is alive and well.
I normaly play cleanish country/surf now days and heavey stuff is a stress reliever.
good luck, DAVE
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Post by benallison on Jun 14, 2008 9:23:11 GMT -7
Thanks for the advice Dave! I know so much of it is in how you approach the guitar and what you play.
So, I tried a friend's Ibanez-something or other and it had an Invader pickup in the bridge, and it's downtuned a full step. I was able to get about 90% there going through a Metal Muff in to the Z28 combo! I couldn't believe it to be honest. I guess what I'm wondering is if going through a different cab/speakers could get me rest of the way.
How are Z28's with closed back 1x12's and 2x12s?
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Post by psj1026 (Pete) on Jun 14, 2008 10:42:23 GMT -7
I play mine through a 2X12 Tonemaster cab loaded with v30's. I'm not a metal guy buy it is way more beefy than with my 1X12 cab loaded with a Weber1225. This cab makes everything sound deeper and fuller. I would think the right pedal would get you there. It is a great amp and noboy else would sound quite like you.
Good Luck!
Pete
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Post by asattwanger on Jun 14, 2008 12:31:53 GMT -7
Ok I see where your going. I just wanted to tell you how I appoarched metal sounds. I didn't know you were that close to the sound. Try ported detuned cabs and try a bunch of them. Maybe try a green back loaded 4x12. You will find one that works.
DAVE
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reaper
Junior Member
Posts: 61
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Post by reaper on Jul 23, 2008 23:06:39 GMT -7
To most people I would say no. With the right pedal or pedals maybe. Most people don't depend on thier muting hand and string attack for a great metal sound and generaly pay for it. Over gained amps are not the answer. Really high out put pickups are are only need if you use trem guitar as you loose so much attack power. Realy it's the fact that you can not find the sweet spot on the saddles the same way you can on a Tune-o-matic or G&L saddle lock bridge. Zakk W. said along time ago "people play my rig and acouple things happen. Not enough gain, no sustain, or it feedsback. My tone comes from my hands" I took this and ran with it. I played a 87 G&L ASAT through a GK ML250 {which is not a metal amp or guitar by any means} and I punnished some people with it. Guys in big D.Metal bands were floorded by it's sound and baffled why it didn't sound like that when they played it. I played a mix punk/metal and while people loved it live. D.Metal record guys didn't know what to do with it and I heard if you do more like Morbid Angel we could market you. Young and stupid I refused and didn't make any money. My friend in the other band I gigged with was more Bungle metal type of band. But he played through a Drip edge Bassman into a 1x12 JBL and that was a monster metal sound. In short. I love the metal/punk driving tones I get from my Z-28, but I have a style driven by a low gain sound that roars when played open and tightens up when muted. Me and the friend mentioned above now play together and we joke about putting a set of punk/metal songs together and go F'upsome wanna be punks in Miami where punk/metal is alive and well. I normaly play cleanish country/surf now days and heavey stuff is a stress reliever. good luck, DAVE Great post! With the excpetion of a Diezel I've never played through a "metal amp" that really did anything for me. Most of the guys have them so buzzy the amp sounds anemic. While I don't have a Z28 I've had some of the same results. I use PAF style buckers, slightly hotter than vintage Fender pups and then I have 2 P90 guitars one with hot pups and one with vintage P90s. I pump them into a Banzai Cold Fusion or a Rat or both depending on context. After somebody hears me and finds out what all I'm running they are usually flabberghasted. On a side note.....I've thought about ditching my Rt66 for the Z28 because it just seems to grind more and earlier to my ears. Luke
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Post by groovergeorge on Jul 23, 2008 23:21:15 GMT -7
Certain pedals can achieve varying results in a bedroom/garage setting but once you get into a live situation just don't cut it.
If you are looking for a rig for metal go with a 65/45 or an SRZ and a cab loaded with at least one v30. You won't even need a pedal.
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Post by fishman on Jul 24, 2008 18:16:03 GMT -7
the 28 is.....and yes I will say it... the best I have heard and played at this point of the Z amps....of course, YMMV it is after 45 years in the top 3 amps I have ever played. I don;t play metal, but I think with the right gear you can get there. I have run mine thru a 4-12 cab and it has the foundation to work from. killer old school JTM45 sounds out of that 4-12 though...
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Post by asattwanger on Jul 26, 2008 7:42:39 GMT -7
Les Paul > Fatboost 2 {set clean} > Z-28 3,3,3 seting is metal to me.
Not quite the bands that were mentioned before but pretty F'ing heavey.
LP, LovePedal E6, & 3,3,3 is very interesting. The E6 and that "Glass" nob makes it more Marshall heavey.
DAVE
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Post by benallison on Jul 29, 2008 7:26:22 GMT -7
Yeah, the key point is that pedals will be required. The Z28 seems to be fairly tight for the kind of amp it is.
I think I'll get a better idea of what's possible when I'm able to run it through a good 2x12 or 4x12. I think the Z 10's are really a limiting factor...
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Post by benallison on Jul 29, 2008 7:33:00 GMT -7
Certain pedals can achieve varying results in a bedroom/garage setting but once you get into a live situation just don't cut it. If I need big volume live, I'd assume that I'd be playing in a venue with a PA in which case I'd mic the cab.
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Post by asattwanger on Jul 29, 2008 13:54:04 GMT -7
Yeah, the key point is that pedals will be required. The Z28 seems to be fairly tight for the kind of amp it is. I think I'll get a better idea of what's possible when I'm able to run it through a good 2x12 or 4x12. I think the Z 10's are really a limiting factor... Do you have a 2x10 combo? I don't think the Z 10's are limeting in any way. If I were to go on tour playing the heavey music we have. I would get another Z-28 head and 2 4x10 cabs. To me they are tighter, more focused and plenty of bass responce. DAVE
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Post by benallison on Jul 29, 2008 18:59:16 GMT -7
Yeah I have the 2x10 combo.
I want more thump and solidity on the bottom. I could see that even a 4x10 would be better...
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Post by afterbang on Aug 28, 2008 14:52:59 GMT -7
a z28 with a 12ax7 in the PI slot, and a rangemaster clone ( i prefer the Analogman Beano Boost) through a decent 4x12 with V30's is pure old school metal. real raw and middy while staying TIGHT down low.
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