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Post by mickey on May 11, 2008 1:25:53 GMT -7
I've asked a similar question in another thread, and got some very helpful replies, but still have a dilemma over which Z is best for what I do. I am the guitarist/vocalist in a blues rock trio, playing pubs and clubs here in the UK. I have owned and loved my Fender Vibroking for the last ten years or more, and have a '72 Fender Deluxe Reverb fitted with a Celestion Gold as backup, or for small gigs. The VK is a superb amp, but too loud for what I want now, in that I cannot turn it up to get it really singing, and always resort to overdrive pedals. I have a good selection; OCD, Barber Direct Drive, , AC Booster, FD2 etc. The Deluxe is OK, but I think I could replace both with one or even two Z's and be much happier; there is no substitute for an amp being driven properly.
I realise I have to try every amp I can, but as I have limited time available, and the only UK dealer is at least 3 hours away, some advice would be very useful. I did make the journey a few weeks ago, and was really impressed with the Maz Jr with a Z best. I did not get along with the 2x10 cab, as it didn't seem to respond in the same way as the 12's, and they didn't have a 1x12 to try. I'm more interested in the 1x12, as it is portable; the other problem I have is that my Vibroking is heavy, and my ageing back is not what it used to be!
Anyway, my main concern with a Maz Jr is would it be loud enough and full enough with a 1x12? The VK does give me a real "meat and potatoes" sound, which fills any room easily, and I'm not talking volume here. An alternative is the Maz Sr, but I don't want to end up with the same problem, ie. not being able to turn the amp up enough to get it to sound good. I'd prefer not to use an attenuator.
I would consider doing the BW thing, and buying a Maz SR and, say, a Carmen Ghia, (though I haven't had a chance to try that amp yet) if it came to it. Maybe a Z28 would be more suitable....
I've noticed more players on this excellent forum asking about their Sr being too loud, rather than the Jr not being loud enough, so that's something worth noting, but I'm prepared to spend some cash here, and want to spend it wisely.
Any advice greatly appreciated; what works for you? Thanks!
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Post by fuzzee on May 11, 2008 9:27:42 GMT -7
First let me say I am not a expert now that thats out of the way--- I really really LIKE my Maz 18,(its the only gig amp I have) for smaller gigs I run it into a 2x12 for big places a 4x12 had a guy friday night ask if it was 100 watts when I told him it's only 18 I don't think he believed me. I have thought about getting a SR. for a little more clean headroom but I don'tthink I need it
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Post by benttop (Steve) on May 11, 2008 9:45:15 GMT -7
I just gigged my Maz Jr 1x12 combo for the first time last weekend. We played a very large indoor venue - seats 550, and has a 10,000 watt PA there for us to use. I stand next to the bass player who is running his Peavey 700 watt amp into two 15" speakers raised up to ear level. I was very worried that the Jr would not be loud enough, but by the end of the night I had the preamp at 2 o'clock and the master volume at noon. There was a bit more to be had, in other words, and it was doing fine. I had the Maz Jr. sitting on top of a Z 1x12 cab, so the speaker was about waist high.
If we were playing without micing the amps, I think I'd go with my dual head setup using the Stingray and probably my Mazerati GT, but for anything where the band is amplified, the Maz Jr is going to be more than enough. I'm thrilled - it's a lot less work to get to the gig and get set up. Oh, and by the way, it sounded fantastic. Several comments to that effect from the bass player and the sound guy. I'm pretty pleased with it.
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Post by mickey on May 11, 2008 11:08:33 GMT -7
Thanks both of you, that's exactly the sort of feedback I need. I guess after all my years of playing, and using more watts than I probably need, I find it difficult to believe that 18 watts will be enough, especially as I've always had some in reserve. However, most of the venues I play are not that big, and I only occasionally mic the guitar, just for extra spread.
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Post by smitty on May 11, 2008 14:07:54 GMT -7
Mickey, when I first got my Maz Jr (2x10 comb) , I took it and my 66 Pro Reverb to a jam session so I could hear both amps at the same time... the Maz Jr was every bit as loud in the room... actually cut a little better. (The Pro Reverb went to someone else soon after...) My experience has been the Maz 18 is amazingly suitable for most club gigs, unless you find yourself next to a 50 watt Mesa or Marshall and the guy won't turn down... but if you use my Pro Reverb as an approximate reference... I think you'll find it'll do what you're looking for. Most of us worried about the Jr not being loud enough until we got one... then we were still turning it down.
As to your VK being too heavy...well when I was tempted to keep the couple that have found their way through here, I always just pick them up and walk around for a minute <GRIN>
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Post by benttop (Steve) on May 11, 2008 15:43:10 GMT -7
Keep one thing in mind. Speaker efficiency can do wonders. If the speaker in your Pro Reverb was a 96 db sensitivity speaker, but you have a 102 db sensitivity speaker in the Maz Jr. they are very nearly the same volume out front.
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Post by stuey222 on May 12, 2008 7:13:34 GMT -7
If you get a higher wattage amp, get an airbrake as well.
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Post by John on May 12, 2008 12:29:12 GMT -7
For my gig last weekend I used my Maz Jr with a 1x12 loaded with a Celestion G12H30 (a 100db speaker...pretty loud) and a Tele. For this type of bar/pub gig, I don't mic the speaker. I had the master all the way up, with the volume on 11:00. It was very loud. We're just a dance/classic rock band. If needed, I had another 1x12 ready to hook up. But there was no need. Bass player is thumping through a 600 watt 1x15/2x8 cabinet.
I would be afraid, that with a Maz Sr. I'd never be able to turn it up and find the sweet spot...because it would be too loud. I have an airbrake, but I still prefer to run the amp has hot as possible without attenuating.
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Post by mickey on May 13, 2008 8:50:43 GMT -7
Thanks again everyone, just the info I need. Smitty, your comparison with your Pro Reverb is really helpful, and John, that's exactly my concern about a Maz Sr, and I would prefer to run the amp hot too. Looks like a Jr is still the favourite, now I've just got to decide on whether I go for the reverb or NR version! All good fun though, and I want to try the Ghia and Z28 too.
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Post by Burnsy on May 13, 2008 11:23:29 GMT -7
Smitty, your comparison with your Pro Reverb is really helpful, I remember when Smitty had only the Pro Reverb and first got the Maz Jr. He really wanted to make that Pro Reverb work for him and did a lot of work on it over a couple of years. After that particular jam session, I don't think I heard much about the Pro any more... I have gigged regularly with a Maz38 Invasion (which is the predecessor to the Maz Sr), and it does great in a small to medium sized room. I don't think you need to push that amp too hard to get it into it's pretty wide sweet spot. If you're concerned about not having enough power on tap, I think you'd be fine if you moved up to the Sr. I'm also surprised that a Route 66 wasn't mentioned for a blues-rock band. The Route66 remains one of my favorite amps of all time. I'm not sure why I've never owned one.
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Post by mickey on May 13, 2008 13:41:50 GMT -7
Well, I am planning the trip back to the UK dealer shortly, and this time I do need to try more amps. The thing is, I've looked at pretty much all the current manfacturers, and Dr Z is one of the very few who seems, on paper at least, to build what I want. I'm looking for an amp which has its sweet spot at my ideal gig volume, with simple controls and without channel switching or more bells and whistles, where I can control the amount of drive from the guitar's volume knob, and with great build quality and reliability. Not too much to ask?!!
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Post by smitty on May 16, 2008 13:33:36 GMT -7
I don't think I heard much about the Pro any more... Only the thump it made when i put it in the car to go sell it. Benttop: I'm glad someone keeps up with the math on this stuff! Mickey: I thought that might help. Have fun in your search! Smitty
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Post by jeffrsn on May 16, 2008 16:52:28 GMT -7
"with simple controls and without channel switching or more bells and whistles, where I can control the amount of drive from the guitar's volume knob, and with great build quality and reliability. Not too much to ask?!!"
Mickey.. you just described the Ghia..try one with your Celestion Gold. Talk about a sweet spot!
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Post by T-R☼CK ♫ on May 16, 2008 17:23:33 GMT -7
"with simple controls and without channel switching or more bells and whistles, where I can control the amount of drive from the guitar's volume knob, and with great build quality and reliability. Not too much to ask?!!" Mickey.. you just described the Ghia..try one with your Celestion Gold. Talk about a sweet spot! TELL IT!!.......+20 (if I cud give 'em to ya)..
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Post by mahons on May 17, 2008 10:31:36 GMT -7
I'd take a look at the Z28, too. The wattage is about right, and with the EF86 in the preamp, it just eats up overdrive pedals. Just my $.02
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Post by mickey on May 18, 2008 1:31:14 GMT -7
I'll be visiting the dealer again in a couple of weeks, got to try the Ghia and Z28 this time.
I was very close to bidding on a Maz Jr 1x12 combo yesterday, which I thought would be great for smaller gigs. Then I decided to go with my original plan of a head and cab, which was the right decision, because at last night's gig a 1x12 combo would have been lost, (not necessarily volume-wise, but depth-wise). My Vibroking sounded fine, which reinforces the idea that I need a head with two cabs for different situations, probably a 1x12 and a Z best.
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Post by dixiechicken on May 23, 2008 13:10:27 GMT -7
Just my two cents you understand - a blues rock trio - you cant go wrong with the Route66. That's just about the perfect fit for you're doing.
You can go to my bands homepage and check out the kind of music we play - it covers that ground too just fine. IMHO
Cheers: Dixiechicken!
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Post by eliot1025 on Jun 10, 2008 1:55:13 GMT -7
+1 on the Route 66 for Blues.
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Post by Michael Bartee on Jun 16, 2008 14:40:50 GMT -7
Its gonna be hard to beat a Ghia after you try one.
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Post by hwyman on Jun 17, 2008 23:17:51 GMT -7
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Post by bluzman on Jun 18, 2008 6:26:51 GMT -7
I've gigged with the Carmen Ghia, Maz Jr., RxJrS, Z-28 and Stang Ray over the past few years. The Maz Jr got lots of time, sometimes due to convenience but it always covered the room nicely... it all depends on what you're looking for. Steve also mentioned about speaker efficiency which is great advice. 18 watts can be plenty. Lately though I've been lovin' the RxJrS.... so 15 Watts can be plenty too
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Post by martyib on Jun 18, 2008 9:36:50 GMT -7
I'm sure the Maz18 will do just fine. But like DC says, I haven't found a venue or forum where the Rte 66 won't do the job - Marty
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Post by mickey on Jun 22, 2008 2:02:12 GMT -7
Thanks everyone for such helpful comments. I haven't pulled that trigger yet, but it's just a matter of time, and it's fun looking too!
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Post by robbz on Jun 22, 2008 2:40:07 GMT -7
Maz Sr NR and an Air Brake covers alot of ground...
Cheers
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Post by hollywood88 on Jul 6, 2008 23:56:58 GMT -7
Well you should definitely try a Ghia with a Zbest. So simple it's funny, turn it on adjust tone, volume and go. And of course I can only speak with what I've had experience with. I prefer an open back with 2 12's and that's all I use but since I just ordered my Ghia the only one I've played was thru a Zbest. I've played a Mazjr combo which was nice. Still prefer my ES and my Ray but I ordered the Ghia and I'll be ordering RXjr to somewhat cover that same sound with a little less power since I guess I'm too loud for the guys I play with. Go figure
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