|
Post by The Fifth Column on Dec 16, 2006 16:01:25 GMT -7
I've got a few questions about the Dr. Z amps as I'm doing a lot of research for my new amp. I'll give you a little background on the sounds I'm looking for and what I currently play through so hopefully you can give me some advice because I'm having a hard time choosing.
Currently I play a couple of custom parts guitars and a hollow-body Ibanez for slide. Nothing too fancy, they have humbuckers mostly and I typically like humbuckers more than single coils (I'm not a big fender player), but I do have one guitar that has some very sweet SDdesigns Dirty Harry pickups, (they're singles coils but wide and under humbucker covers, they sound like they old kay pickups and DeArmond pickups to my ears). Currently I play through an ok Peavey Valveking 100watt half stack. Its pretty versatile but doesn't really shine at anything. It was my first tube amp setup and I think its time for an upgrade. I use a Keeley Java Boost sometimes and a THD hotplate (of course or I'd be deaf from cranking the amp to get good power amp distortion).
The Sounds I'm looking for range from really dirty and distorted Led Zeppelin type of tone, to cranked fender tone, to heavy blues overdrive and lighter blues tones. Basically different shades of power amp distortion from very heavy to just barely breaking up, and maybe a bit of vox thrown in for when I want to play Beatles covers. I've been playing only about 5 years so I don't own a ton of gear and I want to do a lot of research before committing to a new amp and I'm at times pretty obsessed with my guitar tone. For me power amp distortion is where its at, and I've heard Dr. Z amps excel at that so I thought I'd check them out.
I've been kind of leaning toward the Prescription ES head (so I can use the hotplate) mainly because I like the clips a lot and figure that without a master volume I won't have to worry about getting preamp gain (or at least a lot of it). Anyways, today I went to one of the dealers here in Chicago and played both the Prescription ES Combo and the Maz Senior and really liked both of them a lot but I didn't have a hot plate and the room was small (and the guitar I had had unpotted pickups) so I couldn't really crank the amp to the top without getting some great howling feedback, (which was fun but not very musical) so I didn't really get a chance to hear the amp cranked full out. I was very impressed by both though, especially with their character, responsiveness and setup.
What I'm trying to avoid and what I've learned from my Peavey rig is that, Like I said, for me, power amp distortion is what its about, sometimes a lot of it, and I prefer class A power structure (you can switch between A and A/B on the Peavey) for this reason. And that I really don't like amps that sound overly thin at any time. On some settings on the Peavey I either get mud or thin sounding piercing treble and thats without the treble booster.
From all of this I have a couple of questions: First, I noticed from playing the Prescription ES combo that I didn't see a switch for the overdose setting? Was I just not looking hard enough or is it really foot switch only? Second, What amp do you all recommend for the types of sounds I'm looking for and to avoid thins sounds and piercing treble (I like a lot of treble as long as its not harsh). Not necessarily between the Maz and the Prescription ES, but between all the Dr. Z Amps those are just the only two I played. neither of these amps sounded thin or piercing to me at all so I don't think I'll have a problem with either of those but you never know. Third, How do these amps respond to attenuation (the hotplate) and boosters (the Javaboost)? These are currently the only pedals I run as I'm on a purist blues rig kick so if I can get good power amp distortion without the boost even better. Lastly, for users of these amps, I've read on this site that these el84 amps are virtually self biasing? From those who own them is that really true? (as in when replacing tubes your sound doesn't change too much if they're the same type and brand of course). And for those of you like me who like to crank their amps, how often do you find yourself replacing your tubes with these rigs?
Sorry for the long post but like I said, I like to do a lot of research before buying gear especially an amp and now that I have a better idea of the sound I'm looking for I want to make sure I get the right thing.
Thanks for any advice,
Dave
|
|
cosmo
Full Member
Posts: 156
|
Post by cosmo on Dec 16, 2006 16:30:52 GMT -7
First, welcome to the forum. If you do get a Z, you'll find yourself coming back time and again for great advice from great folks. O
Others will chime in with viewpoints on your question, but I have a Maz 18, a Carmen Ghia and a Mini-Z, and based on the sounds you describe, I think the Maz would be a great choice. Only 18 watts, but punches above its weight volume-wise, and when cranked those two EL84s really sing. It's been described here as a cross between Marshall, Fender and Vox, and when you say you like a lot of treble as long as it's not harsh, well, it's all there in the Maz Jr.
And Z amps definitely love boost and overdrive pedals. I use the RC Booster and BB preamp--they cover just about everything. I also use the Air Brake attenuator with the Maz and it works great as long as you don't squash things down TOO much.
|
|
|
Post by dock66 on Dec 16, 2006 17:27:20 GMT -7
Welcome to Z forum.
Both amps as you have mentioned above are phenomenal.I have both RxES and Maz38 Sr Rev.It would be very difficult to choose between the two amps.Both amps take pedals well,both can also be used with attenuators,especially RxEs is bit louder than Maz Sr and it does come with overdose switch.All Dr.Z EL84 amps are self biased .From what you described,Maz38 Sr may suite your need.It is very versatile amp that has Marshall,Fender and Vox tones.With the right guitars ,pedals and speakers combinations,the possibilities are endless.You won't be dissappionted with either amps.I hope this would be more helpful than confuse.
JB
|
|
|
Post by dock66 on Dec 16, 2006 17:30:17 GMT -7
I would recommend separate head and cab.If you can't decide like some of us,get both. ;D ;D You'll end up with more than one Z amps a lot sooner than later.
|
|
|
Post by yinielin on Dec 16, 2006 17:52:36 GMT -7
Id look into a route 66. Reading what u said I think this is what ur looking for. Atleast from hearing other ppl describe the route Ive never actually played 1.
|
|
|
Post by billyguitar on Dec 16, 2006 19:24:15 GMT -7
Class A is a misnomer, what you want is cathode bias. All of the Z amps with EL84s are cathode bias. The other amps are fixed bias but if you buy the recommended tubes you can change them without having to rebias. If you're a real tweaker you can buy the equipment to bias them yourself. Separates are my favorite way to go so the weight is split up between the two pieces. The amps you mentioned are great and so is the Route 66. They'll all handle pedals fine. The Maz series has such a good master volume that I wouldn't think you'd need to attenuate. I use little distortion so I can't help you there as well as the others. One thing is you'll burn up those EL84s pretty quick if you run them that hard all the time but I'm sure you realize that. I keep thinking about an RXES myself but that's because it also has GREAT clean tones.
|
|
|
Post by The Fifth Column on Dec 16, 2006 19:26:29 GMT -7
Thanks for the advice everyone, I appreciate the help although I must say that now I'm really torn even more and I have a few more questions.
First, can someone give me an overview of how the controls on the Maz Sr work. Where I'm confused is because they have volume, and master controls. It uses 4 - 12AX7, 1 - 12AT7 preamp right, so does the volume control the gain in the preamp? I thought normal master volume amps had a gain control that controls the preamp gain, and a master volume that controls the level passed to the power stage. That could be entirely wrong and I want to make sure I'm thinking about this correctly.
I ask because I like how this amp sounds too, as it seems to have a great classic rock/marshall-esque vibe. Like I said though, I don't use a lot of preamp gain typically, probably because I never found a preamp gain I really liked. I think this might have been one of the reasons I was considering the straight volume models (RxES etc). After hearing some of your comments though I went back and listened to the clips of the Maz Sr and Maz Jr again and I can see both working great for me.
Then I started listening to the Route 66 and that amp sounds pretty sweet too. I was a little put off by this amp originally because I was looking for something that was el84 based. Still I can't argue that this amp sounds bad, it sounds as good as the other ones if not better in my opinion. How difficult is it really to bias one of these amps? Last I read only the el84 amps were self biasing so having never biased an amp I'm curious as to how hard it is. Or maybe a better question would be: Does anyone know a good guitar and amp tech in the Chicago area?
Thanks again for the help and anymore advice is appreciated.
I think the more I hear of these amps and definitely from playing them I'm going to get one, I just have to make up my mind. In a perfect world I'd own a RxES, a Maz Sr and a Route66 already, but unfortunately its not its not in the funds right now.
Dave
|
|
|
Post by The Fifth Column on Dec 16, 2006 21:28:18 GMT -7
Sorry about that, missed the previous post about biasing with these amps, the help is appreciated as is the help about Class A. I've read so much about Class A versus A/B and about cathode versus fixed bias and although I really don't understand a lot of it I can understand what your saying about cathode bias.
If anyone can still answer my other questions in my previous post that'd be appreciated.
|
|
|
Post by The Fifth Column on Dec 16, 2006 22:26:16 GMT -7
One more question I just thought of while browsing these amp pages and various other pages.
Can someone summarize some of the differences between the Maz Jr and Sr?
I tend to buy more amp (in terms of wattage than I need) so I'm wondering if anyone regularly plays gigs with the Maz Jr and if they find 18 watts to be enough or more than enough.
I can imagine that the speaker cab has an effect on this as well so I'm taking that into account, just trying to get the whole picture.
Thanks again
Dave
|
|
|
Post by benttop (Steve) on Dec 17, 2006 3:19:10 GMT -7
One more question I just thought of while browsing these amp pages and various other pages. Can someone summarize some of the differences between the Maz Jr and Sr? I tend to buy more amp (in terms of wattage than I need) so I'm wondering if anyone regularly plays gigs with the Maz Jr and if they find 18 watts to be enough or more than enough. I can imagine that the speaker cab has an effect on this as well so I'm taking that into account, just trying to get the whole picture. Thanks again Dave Dave, that 18 watts is probably enough if you have the right speaker(s). Stick a Celestion Alnico Blue in there and you'll be begging for mercy. That said, when I read your original questions it sounded to me like you wanted a Rt. 66. But the RXES and the Maz Sr. are both great amps. One of the reasons many of us here have more than one Z amp is that they all offer up something unique and interesting. I have my third on order...
|
|
|
Post by skydog958 on Dec 17, 2006 9:21:06 GMT -7
That makes two of us!
Not that I want to make this more difficult, but for rock tones thr 6545 is probably king (it's so hard to be sure, all Z's rock pretty hard!). But I don't think it's as bluesy as the others mentioned.
For one q.....the Jr and the Sr are similar, but obviously the Sr has more clean headroom. The Jr however is gainier and I think a tad more aggressive as well.
As was mentioned, 18 is probably enough if you are going to run flat out most of the time with efficient speakers. Z amps are all rated pretty modestly. My KT45 is supposed to be 45 watts, but in actually it really is closer to 70 (partly because the power tubes the Doc likes in the 45 are 30 watt E34LS's over the regular 25 watt EL34s). I use an Airbrake with mine and it's very useful.
|
|
|
Post by slider on Dec 17, 2006 15:15:38 GMT -7
Thanks for the advice everyone, I appreciate the help although I must say that now I'm really torn even more and I have a few more questions. Does anyone know a good guitar and amp tech in the Chicago area? Dave Tim Schoeder Schroeder Guitar Repair. He advertises on this forum. Located next to Maken Music. Builds guitars and really cool amps. He plays guitar and repairs all types of guitars. He just "Did" my 63 Strat and is working on my old Les Paul. VERY knowledgeable.
|
|
|
Post by The Fifth Column on Dec 17, 2006 18:12:29 GMT -7
I think I've decided on the Maz Sr head with No reverb and the matching 2 x 12 cab. I agree that the route 66 would work great for these sounds too and I love that amp too but for my first Dr. Z amp I figured I'd go with one I've played and I've played the Maz Sr and really liked it. My second one will probably be the Route 66, but first I have to find the funds for the first. Honestly I wasn't that attracted to the 6545. I've played a few channel switching amps and I tend to use the guitar controls for different sounds over the different channels.
Thanks again, you all seem to really know your tone. I see a lot of people saying that they just have to jump in and get one and you won't regret so thats probably what I'll do. I don't think I've seen people so loyal to their amps as Dr. Z players and that definitely says something.
Oh, and thanks for the advice on guitar techs slider. You're actually the second person to recommend his work (I was just over at make'n music playing the amps just the other day). I'm glad someone who has some nice guitars trusts him because unfortunately I've been burned by techs in the past.
Anyways, I appreciate all the opinions on this, as has been said, I doubt I can go wrong with any of them and I'm sure I'm still going to be debating the Route 66 or the Maz Sr till the day I get it.
Dave
|
|
|
Post by The Fifth Column on Dec 17, 2006 18:14:29 GMT -7
Oh one more thing. On a side note, if anyone in here plays in a band regularly you might be interested in checking out my website: www.fifthcolumnmagazine.com. Its an online magazine trying to help artists, musicians and regular people get their talent out and recognized. Its pretty new so I'm looking to build a music library of "underground" artists. Feel free to check it out. End of shameful website plugging
|
|
|
Post by benttop (Steve) on Dec 17, 2006 20:09:02 GMT -7
You just can't go wrong with a Maz Sr. head. Let us know how it's working for you when you get it!
|
|
|
Post by dock66 on Dec 17, 2006 21:21:08 GMT -7
Happy for you on Maz Sr., can't go wrong with the other Z amps as well.
|
|
|
Post by The Fifth Column on Jan 13, 2007 14:59:59 GMT -7
Ok, an update to this thread of mine:
Apparently my mind is not made up after all. After changing the pickups in my guitars around I decided to go back and plays the Z's again, since I was taking my main guitar to the shop and the Z dealer in Chicago is right next door.
I was hoping to play a Maz Sr and a Route 66 as I thought I had decided on the Maz but those Rt66 clips kept haunting me. The 66 wasn't in stock though. I played the Maz and I like it, but the more I played it, the more I wished it broke up sooner (in the power stage I guess).
I decided to play around with a few other Z amps in the shop and so I plugged into a Z-28 and I love how this amp breaks up pretty early with humbuckers and the tone controls up, definitely more what I'm looking for gain wise and although I still like the Maz a lot, I preferred the way the Z-28 operated. Well I was there I decided to get on the mailing list for a Rt66 so I can play one before I decide because now I'm really torn.
Here's my questions:
1: How does the point at which the amp starts to break up compare in the Z-28 to the Rt 66? Does one break up sooner than the other etc? I know they're entirely different amps so they're going to sound different I'm just talking about the point on the dial they start to break up, preferably with humbuckers as thats what I use.
2: If when I do get to play the Rt66, I decide that I still like the z-28, is it still possible to order this amp? I remember seeing that this amp is one of the ones where production has been suspended, so is it a special order or can you not order it at all?
Weird I was so set on the Maz when comparing the Maz to the RXes and now I'm more torn between the Z-28 and the Rt66....and the Maz lol.
I think I'm going to hold off on saying I've made up my mind on these things this time. Thanks, any advice is appreciated. I just know I'm gonna end up with all three, and then I'll be broke, these amps are so addictive to play.
Dave
|
|
|
Post by dock66 on Jan 13, 2007 15:13:43 GMT -7
I am seeing triplets for you in the near future. ;D ;D ;D
|
|
|
Post by benttop (Steve) on Jan 13, 2007 15:28:08 GMT -7
Yep. My third Z amp is sitting right here, and my fourth is on order. ;D
|
|
|
Post by guitarstan on Jan 13, 2007 15:38:27 GMT -7
I started with the Maz 38 and it turned out to be a keeper, recently acquired a Stingray it's currently in route and I'm purty sure there is one or two more Z's in my not to distant future as long as my wife doesn't find out what I'm up to ;D.
|
|
|
Post by The Fifth Column on Jan 13, 2007 18:58:48 GMT -7
Well, best case scenario I'd probably have all three, but right now I just can't afford to put that much money into amps. Thats why I'm debating so much and asking all these questions trying to find the best option.
I'm like this with guitars too, that's why I try to keep myself from playing anyone's other than my own otherwise I'm sure I'd own one of everything.
Dave
|
|
|
Post by yinielin on Jan 19, 2007 8:00:23 GMT -7
www.willcuttguitars.com has a z28 head instock just incase thats the one you like. And it sounds like the place u tried the z28 has one too .
|
|
|
Post by The Fifth Column on Jan 20, 2007 23:47:27 GMT -7
yinielin, I had considered getting the one in the shop by me but its red. Its not that I don't like red, I just think I like the blonde or black more. Still thanks for the suggestion. Oddly I checked again and now the z28 isn't listed as suspended. I don't know if Dr Z brought them back into production or if I imagined that, lol.
The more I listen to the clips, especially some comparison clips of the z28 and the rt66, the more I think I like the 66. Unfortunately I may not be able to play one for a while (not in stock by me and they didn't know when it would be). Then again this may give me enough time to save some money so I can get a matching Z's best cab and make a little half stack.
Thanks everyone for the comments, suggestions and help. I'll update this when I finally get my first Z and let you all know what I think.
|
|
|
Post by anacephalic on Jan 24, 2007 11:34:34 GMT -7
I currently own an original RX that i really dig. i'm also a purist guitar/chord/amp kind of guy doing mostly the blues thing. I would recommend the air brake to tame whatever Z you end up getting. very transparent until you really squash things.
As to which amp i'm going to add to those suggesting the route 66 even though i really like my Rx. I just heard one last sunday and it was killer. i think the 66 would be easier for you to adapt to...the RX presented a kind of learning curve for me. wish i had money to add a 66 to the colection but i have to admit i think my next amp is going to be a Victoria Regal. Waaaaay different than any z but waaay cool.
The 66 has more body in the mids than the Rx but is less open and airy on the top end. overall it has a killer blues tone. i didn't get a chance to play it myself since the wife was tapping her foot (and not to keep time with the music) and the guy playing it was leaning heavily towards owning it.
My take is the Rx gets you a more british sound and the 66 gets more american. The Rx excells on airy 3-d sounds when played clean so if you want something voxy that would be the way go. the Rx can do the country twang thing real well due to its percussive attack, especially when clean. The Rx also breaks up fairly quick. once you get it past about 3/4 (airbraked all to hell if you like your ears at all) the Rx has all kinds of fun things going on that lean a bit more towards the ZZ top/Zepplin rock side of the house and further.
The 66 was through a 2x12 dr z closeback but i have no idea what the speakers are. My Rx has 2 v-30s in it.
|
|
|
Post by The Fifth Column on Jan 28, 2007 22:01:41 GMT -7
anacephalic, thanks for the recommendation. Any help making up my mind is appreciated. I'm a huge zeppelin fan so what you said about the rx has me thinking again. Still, I don't want an exact copy of page's tone either.
After playing the z28 I liked the ef86 front end and how those tone controls work so much that I'm really leaning towards one of that family, with at this time, the rt66 being in the lead, but I haven't played one yet either.
It's too bad I can't set up the z28, the 66, and the kt45 all side by side and compare. I should probably include the delta88 in that list too... Although I like the Maz a lot too, I like how the tones increase the gain on the ef86 amps more. Anyone in chicago own all three of these and want to let me borrow them? lol jk.
Unfortunately it may be a while till I have to actually decide as I just took my main guitar in for a setup. Turns out it needed a complete refret, and that will eat up a good portion of my "Z fund." Still, maybe by the time I have the money again I'll have been able to play the 66.
Thanks again, I appreciate the recommendations. Keep them coming but try not to add new amps to the mix as I'm torn between these amps enough as it is, lol.
Dave
|
|